Replacing pump with VS

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J

jfmorris

0
Jun 4, 2013
43
Huntsville, AL
I just got hit with a power bill that was over $500, and am out to fix as much as I can that is inefficient.

Right now my pool is running with an old Sta-Rite pump that is at least 30 years old. I've replaced seals and impellers on it, and motors 2 or 3 times in the 21 years I've owned the pool. Right now the pump has to run 24/7 due to needs for chlorine generation during the day, and being in Alabama, if I don't run the skimmer all night, the pool will be covered up with bugs in the morning. The motor is pulling over 7.5A at 240V and running almost too hot to touch right now, so I expect it to fail due to running too hot within the next year anyway. So, why not save on energy the rest of this year....

Looking at two speed or variable speed pumps, the calculator at Hayward's site indicates I could save about 50% when running at 3000RPM on one of their Max-Flow VS pumps, or around 90% if dropped all the way down to 1000RPM. That is a HUGE savings in energy.

My question is this - I see a lot on here recommending Pentair pumps, but looking online at the places that sell them, including Amazon, I also see that unless I pay a certified installer big bucks, Pentair will only give me a 60 day warranty, and I read a lot about the control boards dying in the Pentair units. Hayward will give me a 1 year warranty no matter who installs it, and through Amazon, I can add a 4 year warranty extension for $25. Amazon also sells a Jandy VS pump. Never heard of Jandy, but I've had lots of Hayward equipment over the years, and gotten good warranty service out of them - Hayward replaced the entire housing on my DE filter right at the 10 year mark on the warranty, due to cracking.

So my question is: are my warranty and reliability concerns about the Pentair a valid concern, and do you guys and gals think it is that much better than the Hayward to take the risk? What about Jandy?

Thanks!
 
jf,

I have a hard time believing the 50% savings at 3000 RPM, as max RPM is only 3450... But I know for the savings when running slow...

I have the Pentair 3 HP IntelliFlo and most of the time I run it at 1200 RPM (for the SWCG) and 24/7. It costs me less than $20 bucks a month.

If you can buy an extended warranty through Amazon, I can't see where the manufacturer's warranty really matters..

Either you want the best pump out there or you don't.. :p

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.
 
You won't be saving 50% on your bill if you run at 3000rpm all the time, but there is an opportunity for you to save significant money. I run my Pentair intelliflow most of the time at 1200rpm just for swcg and give it a burst for just 2 hours at 3000rpm to run my in floor cleaning system and better skimming. I'm saving at least $70/month over my old single speed 2.5hp pump.

You will need to experiment with lowest flow rates that work best for your own pool and your wallet.
 
Check also with your utility for pump rebates they can be very substantial. They may require professional installation though which will cost more than the rebate in most cases. Worth a look.

Here is a chart I put together for pump speeds and costs. This is based on a Jandy 2.7 (3) HP variable speed pump. Jandy is a tier one brand like Pentair. Your SWCG will dictate how slow you can run your pump.

vsp_costs.jpg
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. As an engineer, I do think its cutting from 3450 to 3000 that saves the first 50% in energy. I've done the math based on measurements, and at the approx 12 cents per KWh I am paying, calculate that my current pump is costing me $155 a month if I run it 24/7. That is based on what I measure with a clamp meter, and about fits with the jump I see in my bills when running 24/7. I dial it back to less than 24 hours during non-peak seasons, but still run it pretty much year round here in Alabama, at least 2-3 hours a day in the winter, or if it is below freezing.

I cannot use a huge pump motor, due to the old 1.5" pipes there is a limit to the maximum flow rate.

So right now I see 2 votes for Pentair, and 1 for Jandy, and 0 for Hayward!

On the Pentair, the one that is in my budget at the moment is the Pentair SuperFlo VS which is a 1.5HP variable speed pump, its at the same price point as the Hayward. Looking at that versus the Intelliflo, aside from the $300 price difference, it appears the Intelliflo has 8 programmable speed settings versus 3 for the SuperFlo VS, and maybe the other difference is permanent magnets in the motor? Pentair says up to 90% savings (versus single speed) for the Intelliflo, and up to 80% saves for the SuperFlo. The speed range of both of those appears the same.
 
I have the Pentair VS pump. If it’s a 50 % saving then my bill should not be $800 a month. I run fell speed most of the time because at high speed 3400 rpm the pool is getting clean with all the leaves and stuff. At 2800 2600 May get clean but at 2500 to 2000 rpm no way are you moving the water. Pentair is a great pump. Service is great also. Just call them and they send out parts. I haven’t paid for any yet. It was my pool boy that busted Pentair bleeder valve. Busted a few things. Pentair has a rebate going on n
 
Ok I think I just answered my own question. Rooting around in the Intelliflo information I can find online, it appears that it really needs a 2" suction line due to higher HP and higher maximum flow rates, and my 1.5" plumbing would lean me to the lower powered SuperFlo VS or the Hayward.

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Marty D said:
I have the Pentair VS pump. If it’s a 50 % saving then my bill should not be $800 a month. I run fell speed most of the time because at high speed 3400 rpm the pool is getting clean with all the leaves and stuff. At 2800 2600 May get clean but at 2500 to 2000 rpm no way are you moving the water. Pentair is a great pump. Service is great also. Just call them and they send out parts. I haven’t paid for any yet. It was my pool boy that busted Pentair bleeder valve. Busted a few things. Pentair has a rebate going on n
Click to expand...

Well, seeing as your pool is awesomely huge (30x60!) I can believe that you need to run full speed all the time to keep it clean. Mine is a little more manageable at 18x36.
 
VS pumps are 'variable HP' pumps. So even the Intelliflo can be used. Just like your car. It probably has 150+ Hp but you never use it.
 

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As Marty said you can pretty much ignore the HP rating on the VS pump. An intelliflo pump will work just fine with 1.5 inch pipe. You simply don't run it at high rpms. The lower the rpm the cheaper it is to run the pump.
 
jfmorris said:
Ok I think I just answered my own question. Rooting around in the Intelliflo information I can find online, it appears that it really needs a 2" suction line due to higher HP and higher maximum flow rates, and my 1.5" plumbing would lean me to the lower powered SuperFlo VS or the Hayward.

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Well, seeing as your pool is awesomely huge (30x60!) I can believe that you need to run full speed all the time to keep it clean. Mine is a little more manageable at 18x36.
Click to expand...
I had Hayward pumps they are great. Last a long time. I had one from 1985 to 2006 it was still going but we moved. I bought a 1 hp Hayward for vacuum this pool because the Pentair VS x has a safety and you can’t vacuum with it. Even tho I like both. I would go with Hayward- less $ and you don’t need all the bells.
 
Marty D said:
I had Hayward pumps they are great. Last a long time. I had one from 1985 to 2006 it was still going but we moved. I bought a 1 hp Hayward for vacuum this pool because the Pentair VS x has a safety and you can’t vacuum with it. Even tho I like both. I would go with Hayward- less $ and you don’t need all the bells.
Click to expand...

Marty,

Your problem is that you have the SVRS version of the IntelliFlo... Unfortunately for me, my pool builder talked me into the same pump. While I believe that the Standard Intelliflo is a far better pump than Hayward has ever made, the SVRS IntelliFlo is next to useless.. Thankfully, the SVRS version is no longer in production...

I have two standard Intelliflo pumps on two rent house pools that have been running 24/7 for about 6 years.. Both of these pools have 1.5" plumbing... The idea that you can't use a 3 HP pump on 1.5" plumbing is just not true... large VS pumps move more water at lower RPMs so they are (slightly) more economical to operate.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
They stop making the SVRS ? . Wonder why. Lol. I had a choice to make last year, when I couldn’t vacuum. Buy a new pump buy a vacuum system- both around $1000.00 bucks. I made one w/ Hayward 1 hp. Price $118 bucks. I should call Pentair and see if I can trade this pump in. When I spoke to Pentair 2 years ago and told them you can’t vacuum with it. They had no clue.
 
I have a Pentair 3 HP pump (the standard one) and like Jimrhabe, run it at 1200 RPM 24/7. My pump uses 186Watts that that speed. (the pumps onboard control panel has a power usage feature that tells me that).

I dont have any experience with Hayward, but they have a good overall reputation. You should not worry about their quality.

Its a bit counterintuitive, but when it comes to VS pumps, the larger ones move x gpm of water for less energy cost, than the smaller pumps moving the same x gpm of water.

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I have a Pentair 3 HP pump and like Jimrhabe, run it at 1200 RPM 24/7. My pump uses 186Watts that that speed. (the control panel has a power usage feature that tells me that).

I dont have any experience with Hayward lately, but when they 1st introduces VS pumps, they had some quality issues. Hayward is keen on providing good products, so maybe they got those issues fixed, so do your homework on that.

Its a bit counterintuitive, but when it comes to VS pumps, the larger ones move x gpm of water for less energy cost, than the smaller pumps moving the same x gpm of water.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys. I ended up going with the Hayward simply due to warranty concerns. I'm putting this in as a replacement pump, and bought the pump online (Amazon). If you dig into the Pentair pump warranty, you find that it is a 2 year warranty if you have an "authorized" pool installer put the pump in, otherwise its pretty much no warranty (60 days), and reviewers on Amazon indicated they had trouble getting that honored on self installs. The Hayward Max Flo VS I went with had a 1 year warranty, and did not get into questions of who did the install. Obviously you hope never to use the warranty, but I had trouble spending $700 on something that didn't have at least one year of coverage for defects/failures.
 
As a followup, I ended up cutting all the plumbing about 3" above the ground, and was able to re-work everything on the concrete pad so that there are exactly 4 90 degree elbows in all of the above ground plumbing. Get this - there were *11* 90 degree elbows around the pump and filter before! No wonder the old 1HP motor was pulling over 8A @ 240V. The new variable speed pump even at 3000rpm is pulling about 1/4 the electricity, and at the 2500rpm I am running during the day, is around 350W (1.5A) and at night I am running 1750RPM, at 150W (0.63A). HUGE difference, and I look forward to the power savings.

I did find that I need to run at 1400rpm and above to keep the SWG running, as its flow switch turns it off below 1400rpm.
 
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