Replacing Filter (Please review my plan)

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I need to replace a decaying old DE filter that is probably undersized(see signature for pool details). I'm considering either Sand or DE (familiar with what goes into DE) and believe that I should replace all of the PVC Piping pictured as well. Plan to switch to a MPV at the same time. I plan to clean the 'pad' and build an enclosure. Previous owners left it to the elements. Tried to use search and the pool school, just a few questions before I pull the trigger:

1. Hayward W3S310S/Pentair TR100 30" Sand filters and the Pentair Quad DE 60 are comparable costs, am I understanding the conversion correctly that the Quad DE 60 would be the most 'oversized' option for my setup? For sand it seems that I should be over-sizing with a TR140 but the price jump/availability seems significant.
2. I need to replicate the check valve between the pump and the filter, do I need another check valve anywhere else?
3. Looks like the previous setup has a cutoff for returns 1/2. I've never used it but is there an advantage to keeping that setup that I may not be considering?
4. For the outlet from the pump it looks like the 90 comes right out of the top, I'm hoping that's just threaded in and after cutting I can just remove it. I replaced the motor in 2020 and plan to run it into the ground before upgrading the pump. If that's glued in I'll have to replace the housing or new pump?
5. Anything I'm not considering?




Thanks for your time.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Exit,

I have two rent house pools that have DE filters. The filter at my house is a large CCP-520 cartridge filter.

I will never, ever own a DE filter again. As the two DE filters I have die, they will be replaced by large cartridge filters.

Cartridge filters have dirt simple plumbing. No Backwash or MPV to go bad or leak. Once a season cleaning. Low back pressure and more flow. No DE to mess with. All positives and as far as I can tell, nothing negative.

Just something to think about.

Why do you want a DE filter?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Kaylee34]

That setup looks similar to what I replaced last year. I removed and replaced everything all the way to the ground.

Jim makes an excellent point. I switched my DE filter for cartridge per his and others suggestions. It was the second best decision I made and a close second to installing the SWCG. I do not miss having a DE filter AT ALL. I'd never go back.

Add Jandy never-lube valves to your list of things to get.

 

[exit]

I was leaning towards DE for the cost:benefit (as opposed to sand). I live in the woods and have plenty of flora and fauna enjoying their last swim in my pool so I appreciate the extra scrubbing. I recognize that the delta between DE filtering and Cartridge isn't crazy significant but if prices are comparable I lean towards the better filtering.

As for cartridge filters I'm not a fan of the ~$200 replacement cost for new cartridges every few years, keeping my costs low is a priority of ours. I have experience on what goes into cleaning a DE filter and don't mind doing it seasonally. That all said, I'll price out a comparable cartridge filter and think about it.
Kaylee, are you recommending the Jandy as a replacement to the existing Hayward valve on the inlet pipes or should there be another location I should consider? I don't really use the valve in between the filter and returns 1/2 during winter closing so was considering eliminating that for simplicity's sake.

 

[Jimrahbe]

exit,

Cartridges last 7 to 10 years... Not really a big deal..

It is virtually impossible to visually tell any difference between the water filtered by a DE filter vs. a cartridge filter.

But, it is your pool and I firmly believe that you should get whatever you want.

Thanks,

Jim R,

 

[Kaylee34]

I was a die hard DE fan until cleaning it started hurting to clean it. This old girl isn't so young anymore. Cartridges are much, much easier for me to deal with. I still keep fish and will never go without DE on the aquarium. Get what makes you happy.

Your Hayward valve is fine. I was referring to the return side since I didn't see valves on your list.

 

[exit]

Thanks. I didn't know that it was closer to 7-10 years for cartridges. I am on well water so I wonder how much that would impact the lifetime (I have looked at the recommended cleaning/acid washes etc.)

On the return side the valves' purpose would be to isolate each return for closing the pool? My gut is to go simplistic and while I can see the advantage of having individual controls I've just been blowing them out in sequence.

For a cartridge filter I've read conflicting recommendations on filter sizing. The chart here recommends 250-275 for my pool size but I've read elsewhere that the rule of thumb is 100sqft : 10,000gal which would put me over 300sqft. Even seen recommendations as high as 400-500 sqft. I only have 2 intake lines from the 2 surface skimmers which I believe are 1.5in lines. I do plan on upgrading the pool pump to a VS when it craps out.
Would a cartridge filter like the Hayward W3C4030 SwimClear Cartridge Pool Filter, 425 Sq. Ft. be right sized or should I consider going higher?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Michael,

The basic rule for cartridge filters is that bigger is better, but common sense still applies.

In my case, my pool is open year round, even if I can't swim in the winter, so the larger the filter, the slower it gets dirty. I could probably go all year without cleaning it, but my OCD won't let me, so I clean it twice a year.

In your case, I assume you close in the winter, so a 425 filter should work just fine. Clean it in when you close the pool and it would be ready to go the next year.

Before you jump ship for DE, cartridge filters have an issue that you need to consider. You can't backwash them. I say this because when you open the pool each year, if you normally have to SLAM, because your pool is green, then you will have to open the filter to clean the cartridges a lot.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[exit]

I have had to SLAM in the spring. So I would clean in fall for closing, start up with a clean filter, SLAM and likely load up the filter, clean after SLAM and good to go for the season?

 

[Jimrahbe]

SLAM and likely load up the filter, clean after SLAM and good to go for the season?

exit,

I would assume so..

That said, I have three pools here in the DFW area. I've owned them for about 10 years, and have never had to SLAM as they stay open all year using the TFP pool care process and just don't get algae.

Let's see of we can get one of our frozen north members with a cartridge filter to chime in about what their experience is with start up..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Newdude]

A full spring SLAM wasn't nearly the amount of crud in the filter as the spring pollen. With a large filter, neither is a concern. I clean my filters at the end of the season and they're ready to go in the spring. I will clean them when the crud stops falling just because, and then I'm good for the season.

If the opening SLAM was particularly bad, I might clean the filters when complete, then again after the pollen, but after a couple of seasons on the TFP program, SLAMs shouldn't be needed at opening.

 

[exit]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

As for plumbing plan, with a cartridge filter (eliminating the need for a MPV) how does this setup look?
I've searched and haven't been able to find out what the best practices for a check valve are but I don't think I need one on the discharge side?
The extra valves allowing for individual return control would be for winterizing. Haven't done that before but maybe it's an easier process.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Michael,

Not sure what the check valve after the pump is for.

I like the 3-way just before the filter.

If you have three return lines you what to blow out in the winter, it seems you'd either need a valve on each line or one valve that control all three. (Keep in mind I have never closed a pool..)

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Newdude]

. (Keep in mind I have never closed a pool..)

Ya did good

 

[exit]

Yeah looking at some pictures I don't see many check valves in between pump/filter. One is present on my current setup so I was going to replicate that but if it's extraneous I'll skip it.
My dilemma for winter closing is where to blow out the return lines from? Is it detrimental to blow out through the filter (via the 3way above; pump isolated) or should I have a port somewhere between the filter and the return lines to blow from?

 

[exit]

Simpler version
-removed check valve
-1 valve to control all return lines

 

[Newdude]

Simpler version

Not like that. Each return needs its own valve so that you can shut any of the 3 off to isolate them. Or run the middle one at 50% if the flow is greater than the other 2. Etc etc.

If you get a cyclone blower you can blow the whole system from the skimmer at closing. They are half the price that I was quoted for a company to close my pool. It used to take a couple years for payback but not anymore.

 

[exit]

Thank you.

So it's not detrimental to the pump/filter to pressurize it with the cyclone to blow out the returns during closing?

Here's my final mockup candidate.

 

[Newdude]

So it's not detrimental to the pump/filter to pressurize it with the cyclone to blow out the returns during closing?

Nope. The cyclone is just a different kind of pump. The system/plumbing will determine the PSI needed to move the water through it either way.

Here's my final mockup candidate

That's great.

 

[exit]

Thanks again for everyone's time and experience!