Replacement pump with timer including freeze control OR using Intermatic timer version?

[Janhillatx]

In 2020 I experimented with an off brand VS pump Waterway Defender. It was inexpensive & worked for 4+ years. Got an overcurrent error code (meaning motor stopped) and pump has zero parts TO EVEN TRY to fix or replace. The nice thing is the Defender pump had freeze control on it . My intermatic timers were used for salt cell control and an occasional pool clean with my old pressure side Polaris 280.

There is a thread with what I consider a near nightmare experience trying to return to my old whisperflow (with a refurbished pool pump “expert”) single speed set up Here. I’m leaving it here in case some other soul can learn from my experience. The jury is out on whether or not this retrofit will work so I’m now considering upgrading to whisperflow VS (because they have parts AND everyone around here works in them). Thank you James for your patience!

When I review the literature the Whisperflow does not include freeze protection.

Now I’m stumped trying to figure out how to have freeze protection thru my Intermatic timers. This was my original reason for wanting to go back, I loved my old setup and could mostly maintain easy things myself when simple parts malfunctioned.

What do you brainiacs suggest that I consider if I strike out with my current retrofit? Thank you TFP.

 

[Janhillatx]

I thought I answered my own question! I think the fly in this ointment is there doesn’t seem to be a way to have outside manual start up unless digital, darnit! When you shift to VS you either add automation OR you allow digital pump side to control so if you need automated freeze protection it needs to be in the pump. Texas is unpredictable weather so I don’t want something where I am away and the pump at least TRIES to run. Solved with Inyo pools brand pump. Read below

 

[Hammond]

Do you need freeze protection on a VS pump that you leave running 24x7? I thought that the freeze protection is for a single speed pump you turn on and off.

 

[Janhillatx]

The defunct waterway Defender pump had freeze protection but no parts to fix it one motor died.

I just order the attached from INYO POOLS. It too has internal freeze protection AND because it’s an Inyo brand I expect there will be parts to repair. Its very reasonably priced & 10% off this week.

 

[Janhillatx]

Do you need freeze protection on a VS pump that you leave running 24x7? I thought that the freeze protection is for a single speed pump you turn on and off.

And yes if you run 24/7 you are covered. I prefer some sort of measured way on my pool whether it’s the timer or the pump itself. Of course power out I’m screwed!

 

[Bperry]

And yes if you run 24/7 you are covered. I prefer some sort of measured way on my pool whether it’s the timer or the pump itself. Of course power out I’m screwed!

Is advise never relying on freeze protection. Lots of Texas folks learned that one a couple years ago. Either keep it running and be ready to winterize if the weather looks bad or winterize it ahead of time.

 

[Janhillatx]

Is advise never relying on freeze protection. Lots of Texas folks learned that one a couple years ago. Either keep it running and be ready to winterize if the weather looks bad or winterize it ahead of time.

Oh I do “other things” preparing for known events. This is that first fallback for the surprise attack that tends to come up quickly and leave at the same speed. I WANT freeze protection! If I was interested in automation center and had confidence in it, I can see why my interest is oldy times.

 

[1poolman1]

The defunct waterway Defender pump had freeze protection but no parts to fix it one motor died.

I just order the attached from INYO POOLS. It too has internal freeze protection AND because it’s an Inyo brand I expect there will be parts to repair. Its very reasonably priced & 10% off this week.

That is also a Circupool, Calimar, Black & Decker, Blue Torrent pump. Your best option is to run the pool pump 24/7 and not rely on freeze protection.

 

[Janhillatx]

I can return the pump if you think it’s inferior. THANKS

 

[PoolStored]

I can return the pump if you think it’s inferior. THANKS

I think the first thing to determine when you are ordering a pump is your electrical service. You noted waterway defender...depending on the model it could be 115V or 230V.

What service do you have for the pump? 115v or 230v. Makes a difference on the pump.

The pureline is a 230v pump, and is a medium head pump. Move about 22GPM at 2500RPM and 50' of head...see red dot.


The same pump design in the 3.0HP model of the Calimar (CMARVSP3.0) will move 35GPM at the same RPM. This means you can move more water for the same energy...or move the same amount of water for less energy. I'd get a 3hp Calimar over the one you chose. See red dot.



Why don't you check your service for 115v or 230v and we go from there...

 

[Janhillatx]

I am definitely 240 service love my Intermatic timer and aqauarite salt cell. The Defender was 1.4 hp wired 240 worked fine for 4 years. 18k gallons sand filter is 24 inch Hayward sand filter s244t. All pool equipment is on pad below pool. My before I owned it was whisperflow 1.5 single speed. I tried to go back once the Defender gave out. Don’t like owning a pump you cannot work on. Even if running 24/7 is better, I want freeze protection! I do not wish to add automation. I found my original set up much better to manage.

I do not see why I need to move more water when I was very happy with the performance of the 1.4 hp Defender? Those graphs don’t really register for me. I’m pretty basic with my experience.

And in case I’m less than clear I INSIST ON FREEZE PROTECTION ! It has worked flawlessly in both the Intermatic timer AND the Defender. I lived thru Texas Icemagaddon successfully!

 

[PoolStored]

You then have more options.

The type of pump you purchased, but with the 3hp would work. Calimar (CMARVSP3.0) Black and Decker 3hp, Blue torrent 3hp are all the same pump.

Calimar/Circupool/BD/Blue Torrent Pump - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

You could also go with the waterway defender 270 (PD270)...it is a good pump.

Power Defender 270 Variable Speed Pump - Waterway Plastics

Pool & Spa Products

waterwayplastics.com

The Hayward TRIstar 950 3hp is a good pump.

TriStar VS 950

TriStar® VS variable speed pool pumps are the most energy efficient on the market, according to EPA ENERGY STAR 3rd party testing data. Saving pool owners up to 90% on energy costs, they are specifically designed to replace most single speed pool pumps.

hayward.com

The Pentair Intelliflo VSF a good pump.

Pentair IntelliFlo Pumps - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

All comes down to budget and features. Get the largest of these pumps in the lines (2.7-3hp)...you will save money in electricity because you can run them slower and move the same amount of water.

 

[Janhillatx]

You then have more options.

The type of pump you purchased, but with the 3hp would work. Calimar (CMARVSP3.0) Black and Decker 3hp, Blue torrent 3hp are all the same pump.

Calimar/Circupool/BD/Blue Torrent Pump - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

You could also go with the waterway defender 270 (PD270)...it is a good pump.

Power Defender 270 Variable Speed Pump - Waterway Plastics

Pool & Spa Products

waterwayplastics.com

The Hayward TRIstar 950 3hp is a good pump.

TriStar VS 950

TriStar® VS variable speed pool pumps are the most energy efficient on the market, according to EPA ENERGY STAR 3rd party testing data. Saving pool owners up to 90% on energy costs, they are specifically designed to replace most single speed pool pumps.

hayward.com

The Pentair Intelliflo VSF a good pump.

Pentair IntelliFlo Pumps - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

All comes down to budget and features. Get the largest of these pumps in the lines (2.7-3hp)...you will save money in electricity because you can run them slower and move the same amount of water.

I want the ability to have freeze protection this list ignores that requirement

 

[PoolStored]

I want the ability to have freeze protection this list ignores that requirement

I agree with @1poolman1 that running your pump 24/7 is > Freeze protection.

The Physics of Freezing and Freeze Protection

Recently, there have been a lot of questions from those living in moderate climates about using automatic freeze protection or running pumps to prevent freezing and what a pool owner should do when temperatures drop so I thought it might be useful to have a thread which dealt with the issue from...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Janhillatx]

Not what I WANT. I insist upon measured kick on below 40 degrees!

If you spend $1000 xtra on pump a to save $25 a month in electricity and pump burns up in 4/5 years you saved zip. The focus here defies economics!

 

[Janhillatx]

To be clear, the goals I have for my pump are:: temperature measured freeze protection start up, sufficient filtration to keep a clear pool and chlorinate thru salt cell, ability to use booster pump and 280 cleaner on occasion, economical cost to repair recognizing that most pumps fail in under 5 years.

 

[PoolStored]

Not what I WANT. I insist upon measured kick on below 40 degrees!

If you spend $1000 xtra on pump a to save $25 a month in electricity and pump burns up in 4/5 years you saved zip. The focus here defies economics!

Not sure what your argument is here...pumps fail primarily through starting and stopping. They are made for continuous duty. Running 24/7 at low speed you will experience lower failure rate.

Pumps don't randomly "burn up in 4/5 years."

You didn't read the link I provided above...https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/the-physics-of-freezing-and-freeze-protection.86914/

Preparing Pool for Cooler Months - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Janhillatx]

Not sure what your argument is here...pumps fail primarily through starting and stopping. They are made for continuous duty. Running 24/7 at low speed you will experience lower failure rate.

Pumps don't randomly "burn up in 4/5 years."

You didn't read the link I provided above...https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/the-physics-of-freezing-and-freeze-protection.86914/

Preparing Pool for Cooler Months - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks I have indeed reviewed these articles.

Here is my question if I was satisfied with the performance of the waterway Defender 1.4 HP, why wouldn’t the 1.5 Inyo solution work? What is preferable about the 3.0? I hear it “moves more water” why is that the goal. My pool was clear and with salt cell my chlorination good. What exactly does moving more water gain?

 

[Bperry]

Thanks I have indeed reviewed these articles.

Here is my question if I was satisfied with the performance of the waterway Defender 1.4 HP, why wouldn’t the 1.5 Inyo solution work? What is preferable about the 3.0? I hear it “moves more water” why is that the goal. My pool was clear and with salt cell my chlorination good. What exactly does moving more water gain?

Maybe some misunderstanding going on. Lots of folks here run a variable speed pump 24x7 at very low speed for several benefits: filter operational 24x7, filter performs better at low speed, pump is insanely quieter at lower speed, and pump uses significantly less power at lower speed. Even running 24x7 at low speed is often cheaper by multiple factors vs a single speed pump running part of the day.

Running a larger pump allows you to move more water with less electricity, which means the speed can be turned down even more. The initial cost is higher but over time pays for itself pretty quickly in savings if you run it at the lower speed. Thats the reason for advising a large pump. Pumps should last 10+ years. Mine have been going 5+ so far.

You probably know this but just in case: Freeze protection is only useful if the pump is shutting off routinely. If it’s running 24x7 then it would never be used. It sounds like you DO NOT want to run your pump 24x7 and you ONLY want to run it at very high speed when it’s on… and so you want the freeze protection to turn it back on when it’s freezing outside?

 

[Janhillatx]

Maybe some misunderstanding going on. Lots of folks here run a variable speed pump 24x7 at very low speed for several benefits: filter operational 24x7, filter performs better at low speed, pump is insanely quieter at lower speed, and pump uses significantly less power at lower speed. Even running 24x7 at low speed is often cheaper by multiple factors vs a single speed pump running part of the day.

Running a larger pump allows you to move more water with less electricity, which means the speed can be turned down even more. The initial cost is higher but over time pays for itself pretty quickly in savings if you run it at the lower speed. Thats the reason for advising a large pump. Pumps should last 10+ years. Mine have been going 5+ so far.

You probably know this but just in case: Freeze protection is only useful if the pump is shutting off routinely. If it’s running 24x7 then it would never be used. It sounds like you DO NOT want to run your pump 24x7 and you ONLY want to run it at very high speed when it’s on… and so you want the freeze protection to turn it back on when it’s freezing outside?

If I can get 10 years out of a larger pump than smaller I am game. For my experience I have had the odd time away when I probably would not think I need 24/7 and that factor gave me peace of mind. Do you run your pump full time year round? What maintenance have you done? THANKS for your patience!