Refurb - Sachse Tx w/ Bi-Carb Startup

[peirek]

Hello all,
I have been reading all of the great info and following some of the builds & refurbs completed and in process. I was truly inspired to strongly consider the O/B Bicarbonate Startup (see JamieP/Brian bdavis466 thread - Getting ready for O/B Bicarbonate Startup). JamieP's pool just happens to have the same finish minus color delta that we are going to. The greatness for me is it immediately has you adjusting the water as it is filling (not after). In addition, it monitors and balances twice daily for ~2wks. This just makes great sense to me. It appears to be more work than the others but should provide the absolute best results IMHO. Dumping gallons of MA all at once and brushing like a madman for me seems dangerous......

I have taken info from that thread and created a timeline as I have a vacation scheduled and wanted to see how it would align with current refurb schedule. Would love your review, questions, feedback, and critique of what I have below.

Task Name	Duration	Start	Finish
Pool Renovation	105 days	Tue 6/27/17	Fri 10/6/17
Pool drained	0 days	Tue 6/27/17	Tue 6/27/17
Stone on wall prepped	2 days	Tue 6/27/17	Wed 6/28/17
Plaster Prepped	3 days	Thu 6/29/17	Sat 7/1/17
Tile Installed	1 day	Sat 7/1/17	Sun 7/2/17
Tile Grouted	1 day	Sun 7/2/17	Mon 7/3/17
Prep for Fill	5 days	Mon 7/3/17	Sat 7/8/17
Filter elements cleaned and leak repaired	5 days	Mon 7/3/17	Sat 7/8/17
Measure fill water	0 days	Mon 7/3/17	Mon 7/3/17
Purchase water thermometer	0 days	Mon 7/3/17	Mon 7/3/17
Purchase Tri-Clor Tabs (if needed)	0 days	Mon 7/3/17	Mon 7/3/17
Purchase 5 gallons MA	0 days	Mon 7/3/17	Mon 7/3/17
Purchase XX amount of baking soda	0 days	Mon 7/3/17	Mon 7/3/17
Purchase XX amount of Liquid Chlorine	0 days	Mon 7/3/17	Mon 7/3/17
Purchase additional TA reagents (R-0009)	0 days	Mon 7/3/17	Mon 7/3/17
Plaster Applied	0 days	Fri 7/21/17	Fri 7/21/17
Acid Wash	1 day	Fri 7/21/17	Sat 7/22/17
Fill start	0 days	Sat 7/22/17	Sat 7/22/17
Start with hoses (2) and add irrigation system fill at ? Point	0 days	Sat 7/22/17	Sat 7/22/17
Measure pH & TA every 2500 gallons (time TBD)	1 day	Sat 7/22/17	Sun 7/23/17
Add MA to keep pH ~7.8	1 day	Sat 7/22/17	Sun 7/23/17
Add diluted baking soda in 5G bucket target TA 275	1 day	Sat 7/22/17	Sun 7/23/17
Fill complete	0 days	Sun 7/23/17	Sun 7/23/17
Add startup dose of sequestrant	0 days	Sun 7/23/17	Sun 7/23/17
Turn on pump 24x7	0 days	Sun 7/23/17	Sun 7/23/17
Turn on chloronator (with tri-clor tabs) - low	0 days	Sun 7/23/17	Sun 7/23/17
Twice daily water testing & brushing (AM/PM) - 2 weeks	14 days	Sun 7/23/17	Sat 8/5/17
Add MA to keep pH 7.8	14 days	Sun 7/23/17	Sat 8/5/17
Add diluted backing soda in 5G bucket target TA 250 (or more importantly a CSI of +0.3- +0.5)	14 days	Sun 7/23/17	Sat 8/5/17
Brush pool twice daily	14 days	Sun 7/23/17	Sat 8/5/17
Adjust FC to keep @ correct level determined by CYA level	4 days	Sat 7/29/17	Tue 8/1/17
Once daily water testing (AM) - 3 weeks & brushing - 2 weeks	20 days	Sat 8/5/17	Thu 8/24/17
Run pump 8 hours daily (6AM-2PM)	20 days	Sat 8/5/17	Thu 8/24/17
Target pH of 7.5-7.6 & TA of 120	20 days	Sat 8/5/17	Thu 8/24/17
Adjust FC to keep @ correct level determined by CYA level	20 days	Sat 8/5/17	Thu 8/24/17
Start running Polaris	0 days	Sun 8/20/17	Sun 8/20/17
Vacation	16 days	Fri 8/25/17	Sat 9/9/17
Prep for Salt Start	25 days	Tue 9/12/17	Fri 10/6/17
Purchase & Install SWG	10 days	Tue 9/12/17	Thu 9/21/17
Measure salt level	0 days	Tue 9/12/17	Tue 9/12/17
Purchase TBD Solar Salt	0 days	Tue 9/12/17	Tue 9/12/17
Add salt over 2 days & stir with brush	2 days	Fri 9/22/17	Sat 9/23/17
Measure CYA	0 days	Sat 9/16/17	Sat 9/16/17
Purchase CYA	0 days	Sat 9/16/17	Sat 9/16/17
Add CYA to get to 80ppm	5 days	Sat 9/16/17	Wed 9/20/17
Time for salt & CYA to stabalize	3 days	Sat 9/23/17	Tue 9/26/17
Turn on SWG & Turn off chlorinator	0 days	Tue 9/26/17	Tue 9/26/17
Adjust FC to 5 (never below 3)	10 days	Tue 9/26/17	Fri 10/6/17

Pictures to come......

 

[kimkats]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

Well this WILL be fun! Now you say you have been reading on here so why is it there are NO pictures to get us start with? hummmmm that is how we get "fed" around here! LOL

Yeah Jamie's thread was something else. Did you read her build thread as well? FUN times!

Kim

 

[peirek]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

Well this WILL be fun! Now you say you have been reading on here so why is it there are NO pictures to get us start with? hummmmm that is how we get "fed" around here! LOL

Yeah Jamie's thread was something else. Did you read her build thread as well? FUN times!

Kim

Didn't realize the forum eating habits..... My bad - please stay tuned as it is raining today and the pool is a bit (well a lot) green......

I did not read Jaime's build thread.

 

[SuzfromTexas]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

I'd rather eat BlueBell ice cream, but I do have a strange affliction when I'm on the TFP website. Words are all blurry until pictures show up (and not links....). Then the words just clear right up!!

I have PebbleSheen. I do have a good bit of mottling which doesn't really bother me unless the water is dead calm - not too often. I can't help but wonder if I had done the BiCarb start up, if my results would have been different. I practice TFP's water maintenance plan, and I think I do a pretty good job. I don't think that's my issue. There's also been quite a bit on here that most issues are not due to poor water care. I'm sure irregular care, fighting algae, and dumping unnecessary chemicals doesn't help.

I think you're smart to be reading up on your options. Have you read any articles from OnBalance? Those are great, too, and I believe support the Bicarb method. He goes into a little more detail about the actual pebble/plaster application process before start-up, troweling methods, etc. Let me know if you need help finding the articles.

Now, for the fun part..... I've never seen such a detailed timeline!!! I'm in awe! I thought I was a detail fiend, but you put me to shame. I want to warn you, there might be some who come along and scoff at the timeline considering the general nature of pool workers and the fickleness of weather. Don't let them get to you. I admire your determination and optimism. :bowdown: Putting that positive energy out there in the universe is very powerful! Maybe you padded some of the workers' schedules with extra days, I'll admit I didn't read that closely. I think once the plaster is applied to your satisfaction, you should be good with the timeline. You'll have control over those post-plaster tasks.

Welcome to TFP!
Suz

 

[kimkats]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

Here is the link to Jamie's thread. If you would like THE epic build thread just click on the link in Suz's siggy! 2015 pool build! We had SO much fun

Kim

 

[peirek]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

Hi Suz - Bluebell ice cream? you were hurting a couple years back. Thanks for the tip on reading Onbalance articles. I'll do a search and start reading. The timeline has about one week of slack (yea I know.....) for the plaster install but worst case we delay the vacation if the pool isn't 100% stabilized. Now if 4 weeks turns into 14......ugh. Winter camping in the Rockies.....

Hi Kim - sure hope the refurb is much easier than a total build.... I don't want the word epic to be any part of my experience. Will read both builds to reminisce my build some 17 years ago....

pictures to come......

 

[peirek]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

As promised - to feed the TFP crowd......

 

[kimkats]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

BUT I like how it is NOW!!!!! What don't you like? If you think it is going to be better I can't wait to see that!

Kim

 

[NorthTexasNovice]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

I agree ... that's a pretty nice setup now. I can't wait to see the 'after'. By the way, you're just down the road (and around the corner) from me. Good luck on your project!

 

[SuzfromTexas]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

Yum! :tasty: Pictures..... almost as good as Blue Bell! (and yes, I was hurting bad a couple of years ago!) Add me to the list of admirers of your pool as it is now! When was the pool built?

I like your patio setup - TV and credenza below. You do some great manicuring on your yard - looks great! Hey, I just put in the exact same lights you have in the liriope, but they were too bright (which shocked me). I had to replace them.

Tell us your plans - I don't think I saw them above. A new finish, but what color, brand? Any abalone shells for sparkle? What else are you changing or replacing? Is the open area behind your fence yours, or a subdivision open area?

Thanks again for the pictures!!!

 

[peirek]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

Thanks Kim, NTNovic, Suz - The pool was built in 1999. The plaster surface has become very rough and has significant staining. Considered an acid wash but that won't help the surface roughness. It is time for an update.

We just completed the patio cover - boy I had no idea how much work that would be. We had it framed but DW (dear wife) and I finished it out. DW is our gardener and the flower beds are not up to her normal standards as we have been focused on getting the patio cover completed. She doesn't know I posted pics (shhhhh).

As for the lights, yes they were a little brighter than anticipated but have grown to like them.

Refurb plans are in my sig (like a faithful TFP servant)..... Upgrading to: StoneScapes Midnight Blue Mini Pebble w/ abalone, new tile, repaired/sealed Austin stone, bicarbonate startup (inspired by Jamie P thread 2016), installing SWG.

The property behind us is owned by an elderly neighbor. We maintain the back 3/4 acre and are free to use it whenever we like. Lots of volleyball and horseshoes played out there. My boys grew up using it as their sports field.

BTW in the grassy area between the house, pool, shed used to be a 40' live oak tree and flower beds. The tree turned out to be a nightmare to deal with so it came out about 7 years ago. Kind of sad as it provided great shade but the mess it made in the pool was more than we cared to deal with any longer. Flower beds were converted to grass last fall. We are in the time of life when minimal or maintenance free is our direction. New finish and armed with newly found TFP proper chemical management should significantly reduce the pool maintenance. I cannot believe how may things I was doing wrong..... Well just about everything.

FYI: We have skipped over the original PB (his quote was 75% higher) and have gone straight to the Plaster/Tile/Stone company and received MUCH better pricing for exact same finish/tile. Imagine that..... DW will be running rough shod over them, and she is tough!

 

[peirek]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

Here is a better view of the plaster staining.

 

[SuzfromTexas]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

Thanks Kim, NTNovic, Suz - The pool was built in 1999. The plaster surface has become very rough and has significant staining. Considered an acid wash but that won't help the surface roughness.
Yes, it is time for an update, but as far as appearances, it has held up well! I hope mine does as well!

We just completed the patio cover - boy I had no idea how much work that would be. We had it framed but DW (dear wife) and I finished it out. DW is our gardener and the flower beds are not up to her normal standards as we have been focused on getting the patio cover completed. She doesn't know I posted pics (shhhhh).
When you aren't worried about being called out on posting the picture, let her know how beautiful I think it looks now - even for its 'subpar standard' - cough, cough.

As for the lights, yes they were a little brighter than anticipated but have grown to like them.

Refurb plans are in my sig (like a faithful TFP servant)..... Upgrading to: StoneScapes Midnight Blue Mini Pebble w/ abalone, new tile, repaired/sealed Austin stone, bicarbonate startup (inspired by Jamie P thread 2016), installing SWG.
Ha!! I can't believe I didn't check your signature or catch the update!!! And me, such a stickler school marm about signatures! Sorry..... Now for pictures of the proposed tile.

The property behind us is owned by an elderly neighbor. We maintain the back 3/4 acre and are free to use it whenever we like. Lots of volleyball and horseshoes played out there. My boys grew up using it as their sports field.
That's a win/win for you and your neighbor! I love hearing when those things happen.

BTW in the grassy area between the house, pool, shed used to be a 40' live oak tree and flower beds. The tree turned out to be a nightmare to deal with so it came out about 7 years ago. Kind of sad as it provided great shade but the mess it made in the pool was more than we cared to deal with any longer. Flower beds were converted to grass last fall. We are in the time of life when minimal or maintenance free is our direction. New finish and armed with newly found TFP proper chemical management should significantly reduce the pool maintenance. I cannot believe how may things I was doing wrong..... Well just about everything.
I love my 30 yo Live Oak tree, but boy, is it ever messy. I understand completely why it had to go. Mine is in the front yard, thank goodness, or I would never have built my pool.
Ya'll will love the swg system for minimal maintenance. I did the chlorine thing the first 30 days, and was amazed how much easier things were when we switched over to the salt cell. Of course, those first 30 days of pool chemistry were a bit overwhelming for me, so that may have had something to do with the next 30 days seeming much easier. Still.... I love it. Did you read in any of OnBalance's posts about waiting 60 days before adding salt to a new plaster finish? I think I read that, because I remember wondering if that would have been better for my plaster and the following mottling issues. Update: I cannot find the article I thought I read this in, so please disregard 60 day wait.

FYI: We have skipped over the original PB (his quote was 75% higher) and have gone straight to the Plaster/Tile/Stone company and received MUCH better pricing for exact same finish/tile. Imagine that..... DW will be running rough shod over them, and she is tough!
Go DW!!!! Good call on going straight to the service companies and side-stepping the PB. I plan to do the same in about 20 years if I make it that long!! Lol!!!

Take care,
Suz

 

[peirek]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

Hey Suz,
I had not found the 60 day waiting period recommendation for salt from Onbalance. Everything I had heard/read/been told was 30 days. But if my schedule above comes close to reality, it isn't much change to delay until 60 days. I can use the Tri-clor tabs I have remaining (haven't used since I found this site) to start the creep up of CYA. If that is not deemed a bad idea.

Blessings,
Paul

 

[peirek]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

Plaster and tile selection. Tile is hard to tell in this picture but is navy blue/black

 

[SuzfromTexas]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

Hey Suz,
I had not found the 60 day waiting period recommendation for salt from Onbalance. Everything I had heard/read/been told was 30 days. But if my schedule above comes close to reality, it isn't much change to delay until 60 days. I can use the Tri-clor tabs I have remaining (haven't used since I found this site) to start the creep up of CYA. If that is not deemed a bad idea.

Blessings,
Paul

I may have been wrong - I should have found my proof before I opened my big mouth! I've been searching feverishly and can't find anything close to that. I do have the thread from OnBalance I believe in 2012 describing his testing and recommending waiting 30 days. Here:

When Should Salt be Added?

And another article from OnBalance for others who haven't read it:

Why Acid Wash New Quartz Pool Finishes?

I'm sorry, I thought I had read something more recent regarding a 60 day wait is more prudent. So..... I'm going to correct my post above. I don't want to mislead anyone. If I do find the mention of waiting 60 days, I will post that and then edit my correction.

My sincere apologies! (old women shouldn't be allowed!!)
Suz

 

[peirek]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

I may have been wrong - I should have found my proof before I opened my big mouth! I've been searching feverishly and can't find anything close to that. I do have the thread from OnBalance I believe in 2012 describing his testing and recommending waiting 30 days. Here:

When Should Salt be Added?

And another article from OnBalance for others who haven't read it:

Why Acid Wash New Quartz Pool Finishes?

I'm sorry, I thought I had read something more recent regarding a 60 day wait is more prudent. So..... I'm going to correct my post above. I don't want to mislead anyone. If I do find the mention of waiting 60 days, I will post that and then edit my correction.

My sincere apologies! (old women shouldn't be allowed!!)
No worries. Thanks for the links.

Suz

My current schedule (however accurate it turns out to be) has 2 months between fill and salt add (7/22 - 9/22). I have a 2 week vacation planned and am hoping to have the pool balanced and under control before I leave. My son is going to check pH a couple of times a week while we are gone and I am planning to run the in-line chlorine feeder with Triclor during this time.

 

[kimkats]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

Love the new tile pic and the plaster color! That is going to look awesome!

Kim

 

[ctrav]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

Current pool layout does look good (not as good as Blue Bell Ice Cream) but I can see retiling and plaster. The patio cover is really good and you have all that room to play outside the pool. SWG will be a very good thing from what I read. I seriously thought about the bicarb startup but I will let my PB do his thing with acid start. Kim and Suz may yell at me on that one but they forgive easy...Keep the pics and questions coming you are off to a great start!

 

[peirek]

Re: Refurb - Sachse, Tx

Current pool layout does look good (not as good as Blue Bell Ice Cream) but I can see retiling and plaster. The patio cover is really good and you have all that room to play outside the pool. SWG will be a very good thing from what I read. I seriously thought about the bicarb startup but I will let my PB do his thing with acid start. Kim and Suz may yell at me on that one but they forgive easy...Keep the pics and questions coming you are off to a great start!

Thanks Cliff and nearby neighbor. I read your build a couple of days ago, great job. The grandkids are going to love it and you even more!

Blessings,
Paul

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks for the vote of confidence Kim. My wife is the designer as I am the partially color blind guy who tends to focus more on the technical details..... We make a great team!!

Blessings,
Paul