Recommended Chemical levels VS CSI

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Leebo said:
I’ll speak as one who’s been able to somewhat look at average calcium levels of several hundred thousand test results........
The average TFP pool in the US has a lot lower calcium than one may think. While there are areas in the US that struggle with calcium, a combo of rain and soft fill water make the average CH level in a pool rather low for the majority of the country.
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PHEW! Thank you...
 
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AusPhil said:
@MickyT you have made me question my own use of the CCL Ph test, haven't used it in 12 months but had read the 4/5 drop stuff on here so long maybe i was using more than 2 drops as well. Exercise for the weekend
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Did you ever use the cheaper pool shop test kits as well? Five drops phenol red.... I was stunned when I read the two drops... Pays to pull out the book everytime when testing... :goodjob:
 
AusPhil said:
Hey Leebo,
I know the Aust sample set is quite tiny but be interesting to know if it's similar ... Like all forums it's typical that we would see more of the edge cases written about as people seek answers to issues.
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In all honesty, I don’t. The sample simply isn’t large enough overseas to really make a bold statement. One or two data points out of several hundred thousand really doesn’t mess up the results that much. One or two out of a few hundred really tosses things out of whack.


jseyfert3 said:
Good point. There's a big difference between having hard fill water and lots of rain (like here in the midwest where I am) and having hard fill water and little rain (plus usually lots of heat), like in Arizona.
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It’s not just the Midwest, but a noticeable portion of the country. Even a noticeable portion of California has a lower CH average in their pools than one may think. Granted multiple things can alter these numbers such as frequent drains and so forth that the App doesn’t record, but the number show over and over that for a noticeable portion of the US, calcium can be controlled.
 
Leebo said:
Even a noticeable portion of California has a lower CH average in their pools than one may think.
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Mainly surface water from the Sierras. The primary source for the Bay area is Hetch Hetchy reservoir near Yosemite.
 
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I have never lived in a place in the US that didn't have hard water. I know they exist... I think IIRC Florida is such a place, but maybe I am wrong. But having said that my CH isn't drifting upwards as fast as I heard that it happens in most of Arizona so I am holding out hope. (Our little system is a whole lot better than the main Tucson system is, but isn't the softest in the area...) Water Softener salt is indeed about 50% less per unit weight than pool salt is here, though. Hardness in the US varies greatly on the water source. When I lived in Chicago, for example, much of the water was sourced from Lake Michigan which was very soft indeed. The wells in the area? Not so much. Very Hard. They mixed the two where I lived which was interesting. Europe in most areas has much softer water as does Australia apparently.

Yes, rain water is always soft because it's more or less distilled plus whatever pollutants it picks up on the way down which isn't much.

As for TFP? The guidelines are against a lot of the "industry standards" in America too. It's interesting because the sales pitch for salt cells here alone should prove that the TFP methods do work. Effectively you are only substituting electrolysis of the Chlorine from the reverse process from the liquid bleach uses. Honestly, the pitch even here in the desert is "just change out the water every couple of years". well, okay then.... Obviously TFP will work anywhere, though. North America has a lot of places with a lot of Calcium and Magnesium in the water, and fewer places that don't.

Oddly enough back in the old, old days TFP is how pools were managed, especially before CYA. CYA was a great invention, honestly, but it's like religion... it needs to be in moderation... :) The same with most specialty pool chemicals. Less is indeed more.
 
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Rattus Suffocatus said:
Europe in most areas has much softer water as does Australia apparently.
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No idea about Europe but the larger population centres in Australia are typical supplied from dams that collect and hold surface water runoff (Rain) though towns and properties outside of these areas often rely on underground water sources that will have all sorts of minerals etc in the water. Obviously we have a higher percentage of pool ownership in the main cities and hence we would see generally low CA and TA from a tap.
 
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MickyT said:
I wonder what the balance will be like once recycled sewerage water becomes the norm. Probably be the best water we have seen in a while..
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I have read that testing of water from settling ponds at sewerage plants can show water quality better than from normal dam water, various councils already treat recycled water to be of potable quality .... as for the actual chemical balance who knows?
 
MickyT said:
Did you ever use the cheaper pool shop test kits as well? Five drops phenol red.... I was stunned when I read the two drops... Pays to pull out the book everytime when testing... :goodjob:
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Hey Mickey - I also use the CCL test kit, and like you had difficulty matching the pH test to the color sticker. Advice I received on here suggested to use x1 rather than x2 drops of reagent.
I still need to 'throw a dart' to call my reading at say 7.6 as opposed to 7.4 or 7.8, but the x1 drop has made colour match much easier. The other thing that assists my eye to brain analysis of colour, is I use a piece of white card that I've cut a small window out of (cutout same size as each individual colour tab on the tube), and I place this over the colour scale and slide it along - not seeing the alternative colours helps my ol brain process the reading much more clearly.
 
amlez said:
Hey Mickey - I also use the CCL test kit, and like you had difficulty matching the pH test to the color sticker. Advice I received on here suggested to use x1 rather than x2 drops of reagent.
I still need to 'throw a dart' to call my reading at say 7.6 as opposed to 7.4 or 7.8, but the x1 drop has made colour match much easier. The other thing that assists my eye to brain analysis of colour, is I use a piece of white card that I've cut a small window out of (cutout same size as each individual colour tab on the tube), and I place this over the colour scale and slide it along - not seeing the alternative colours helps my ol brain process the reading much more clearly.
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Hey Amlez,
I ended up buying a cheap digital ph analyser off ebay, for about $15. I didn't think it would really work all that well, but it's actually quite accurate (thus far). It was .1 of a "pH" out, but it came with a little screwdriver which adjusts it. I calibrated it with the pH solution in the CCL kit.

I do however, like that idea of 1 drop and I'll look to give that a go as required.

What I ended up doing before my digital thing arrived, is I had one of the cheap test kits which comes with the square tubed ph and chlorine tablet chamber on opposite sides. I was using that pH colour guide to hold next to the CCL tube and I found that worked better, as the colour was off to the side, not within the mix - if that makes sense.

Now that I am getting used to the pool, I am finding - as per what people on this forum have said about fibreglass - my pool wants to sit pretty much on 7.8 - 8.0, so that's what I settle on. We had a heap of rain the other day and it rose to 8.5 (digital) and I just let it be, and it is slowly coming down. Last check was 8.2 and I'm just leaving it be. It's currently 10 degrees where I am so the pool is not being used so it's not an issue especially if I do the CSI sum. The pool is crystal clear and I'm happy with that.

Regards
 
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MickyT said:
Hey Amlez,
I ended up buying a cheap digital ph analyser off ebay, for about $15. I didn't think it would really work all that well, but it's actually quite accurate (thus far). It was .1 of a "pH" out, but it came with a little screwdriver which adjusts it. I calibrated it with the pH solution in the CCL kit.
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If you buy the standards and calibrate them to the liquid every time you use it those cheap electronic meters are closer to +/- 0.05. having said that I don't use mine much anymore except to double check the drop test because it adds ten minutes to the process to properly calibrate them every time... But they are good to have and aren't effected by high chloride levels like the titration tests are.
 
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Rattus Suffocatus said:
If you buy the standards and calibrate them to the liquid every time you use it
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I have the standards but not yet used. I've been using the liquid one the CCL kit provides. I've checked it twice and it's holding its accuracy at the mo. I've used the meter maybe 10 times, pretty happy with it, it's in the ball park.. cheers
 
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