Raypak RP2100 shuts off

[Pool Clown]

Your

Ok, I assume let it hang there while I see if it works? I saw a diagram that looked like the silver sensor slides into the header, the plug into the board. Like I said, I'm a novice, and I fear screwing up bc that'll defeat the whole purpose. The part should be here tomorrow. I got a brand new Raypak sensor for an excellent price. Thanks again!~

Your writeup is accurate. Note how much of the existing sensor is protruding out of the header and mimic that with the new one when ready.

 

[mrsfluff]

Your

Your writeup is accurate. Note how much of the existing sensor is protruding out of the header and mimic that with the new one when ready.

Super. Will do. I'll report back once I get it tackled. Thanks much!

 

[mrsfluff]

Super. Will do. I'll report back once I get it tackled. Thanks much!

Your writeup is accurate. Note how much of the existing sensor is protruding out of the header and mimic that with the new one when ready.

Howdy! I opened the heater today, I see the wires (green & black), and I see where they lead. I began to untighten the nut around the metal temp sensor but I stopped short to contact you because I'm not sure if I'm supposed to untighten the top AND bottom pieces...or just top. Obviously, at least the top has to be untightened. I began to wiggle the metal sensor upward as you will see in the photo. Please advise. I DO NOT want to break anything. You had said to "mimic how much sensor is sticking out"...but it appears that that is a fixed amount. Thanks!

 

[Pool Clown]

Just the top. You may need to hold the bottom part and loosen the top. It probably wont be cooperative. You will either have some crud on the sensor, or the sensor may be swollen and split. Both will give you resistance removing. You will want to take the white top piece and the silver temp sensor out together.

 

[mrsfluff]

Hi Pool Clown...so I went out there today, admittedly a bit nervous, and was able to wiggle the sensor out. It was a bit challenging overall mostly bc I didn't want to break anything in the process. You gotta be real careful pulling it out bc it is right up against the connections to some other part next to it, I'll be darned if I know what that is. Then I had to take that metal panel (from the lower access door) off the front of the wires in order to feed in the new sensor wires which took me a few minutes to figure out. So...the new sensor is in BUT...it's not in all the way nor will it go in all the way. And boy did I try. It's in most of the way. There's maybe 1/4 inch showing. There is no way I know to move it without pounding down on the top bc ideally that is the best way to finish it off. I wouldn't dare do that for fear of damaging the wires. To me, it looks like the sensor is way far enuf down to read the incoming water. But what do I know. I turned on my filter but I don't want to turn on the heater until I hear back from you. If it turns out to not be the sensor, that I can't get the new one all the way down is the worst part of having changed it out. But...it's a new sensor either way even if I need a new board. I'll keep the old sensor as a back up. What I did observe is that one wire coming out of the top was showing a little, the coating was worn away on one side (odd, no?). As far as the sensor itself? It looked perfect. Thanks so much! You have been a life saver. Really.

 

[Pool Clown]

1/4 inch should be ok.
Post a pic of the worn wire you described.
Did you plug in the sensor and let it hang outside the heater and run the heater?

 

[mrsfluff]

1/4 inch should be ok.
Post a pic of the worn wire you described.
Did you plug in the sensor and let it hang outside the heater and run the heater?

Ok, so, I turned on the heater and it sparked right up like always, registered about 86 at the start. I kept checking it early on, it seemed like it was running as it should, going up a couple of degrees which is normal. I left it for a bit while I was working around the yard and when I came back less than an hour later, it had stopped. SPK on the panel. Same problem as before. It got up to 89 but that was likely bc it is usually about 2 degress higher than the actual water temp and the water was about 86-87. It certainly wasn't rising fast like that one time where it went up 6 degrees in five minutes. I'm so bummed. I don't mind buying the part and doing the work but it bothers me that I couldn't get the sensor all the way in. The old one was all the way in. Ugh. I took a pic of the wire I mentioned. (Below) I didn't plug in the sensor and let it hang but I certainly still could if I have to. I had a feeling it wasn't the sensor only because the problems weren't consistent. Out of the few times I started it up, only once the temp shot up. The other times the unit just went off and SPK appeared on the panel. Sometimes it happened fast, within a minute or so, other times, it ran a bit first.

 

[Pool Clown]

The reason for letting the sensor hang outside the heater was to determine if it was the sensor or control that was failing, or if something inside the heater was making the sensor show inaccurate readings ie. a broken bypass, Unitherm governor, etc. As stated before, if it is only sticking out a quarter of an inch more than the original one, dont be bummed.

At this point, you may need to babysit the heater and observe when it shuts down. Note if it bangs or knocks a bit when this happens, or if it just shuts down quietly. Bang or knock= something is up with water flow whether it be water velocity, or a mechanical by-pass issue. If quietly, it may be a control component. We may have to revisit disconnecting the touchpad again.

I trust that during these tests, you have the thermostat set to a temp higher than what temp the heater is shutting off at?

 

[mrsfluff]

The reason for letting the sensor hang outside the heater was to determine if it was the sensor or control that was failing, or if something inside the heater was making the sensor show inaccurate readings ie. a broken bypass, Unitherm governor, etc. As stated before, if it is only sticking out a quarter of an inch more than the original one, dont be bummed.

At this point, you may need to babysit the heater and observe when it shuts down. Note if it bangs or knocks a bit when this happens, or if it just shuts down quietly. Bang or knock= something is up with water flow whether it be water velocity, or a mechanical by-pass issue. If quietly, it may be a control component. We may have to revisit disconnecting the touchpad again.

I trust that during these tests, you have the thermostat set to a temp higher than what temp the heater is shutting off at?

Do I still need to let the sensor hang outside? I think we know it's not the sensor at this point. But how does hanging it outside rule out the other things. I'm not that savvy.

I actually have babysat the heater many times since this started. That's how I knew that it probably wasn't the sensor. Out of all the times I started it up, the temp reading only went haywire once, and it happened quickly(a degree a minute). The other times, it stayed on for various amounts of time (with a normal reading), sometimes a minute or a little more, other times, less that an hour but I can't say exactly. That's what happened the other day. It stayed on for a spell, but less that an hour, for sure. That said, it never bangs or knocks. It never has. It's always quiet. By quiet, I mean I can hear a VERY slight sound but it is likely the pilot going out right before the panel displays SPK. I got that connection with my pool equip that I detect every little sound even from afar. lol

Yes, the temp is ALWAYS set far enough above the water temp. For instance, the other day, the water temp was around 86 and I had it set at 92. When I went back to look, it was at 89, but that's bc it always registers at about 2 degrees above actual. So 86 would equal 88 or so give or take a degree on either end. (Even if the water was at 84 and it climbed up artificially, that would be a repeat of one of my previous experiences albeit at a MUCH slower pace.) I stayed by the heater early on. I came back every few minutes to look. Everything looked good. After around 4 trips over there, I left it for a longer period while I was doing yard work praying it was a go. Less than an hour later, I came back to see SPK on the panel. *deflated*

 

[mrsfluff]

The reason for letting the sensor hang outside the heater was to determine if it was the sensor or control that was failing, or if something inside the heater was making the sensor show inaccurate readings ie. a broken bypass, Unitherm governor, etc. As stated before, if it is only sticking out a quarter of an inch more than the original one, dont be bummed.

At this point, you may need to babysit the heater and observe when it shuts down. Note if it bangs or knocks a bit when this happens, or if it just shuts down quietly. Bang or knock= something is up with water flow whether it be water velocity, or a mechanical by-pass issue. If quietly, it may be a control component. We may have to revisit disconnecting the touchpad again.

I trust that during these tests, you have the thermostat set to a temp higher than what temp the heater is shutting off at?

And what's with all the Low NOx converted boards I'm seeing? Some are as cheap as $100 but I'm always sooo skeptical. There again, you could buy new that goes post haste.

 

[Pool Clown]

Hanging sensor rules out or confirms Uni-Therm Gov. or by-pass.
If it were that, you would get, at the instant the heater shut down, an error code of HLS1 or 2 then after a moment you would get the SPK displayed. So it is important that you are right there the instant the heater shuts down to see the fault before if goes to SPK.

Dont get a Lo-Nox board unless you have a Lo-Nox heater. A converted board is a regular board that has had the Lo-nox tab broken off and you cant use on a non-Lo-nox heater.

 

[mrsfluff]

Hanging sensor rules out or confirms Uni-Therm Gov. or by-pass.
If it were that, you would get, at the instant the heater shut down, an error code of HLS1 or 2 then after a moment you would get the SPK displayed. So it is important that you are right there the instant the heater shuts down to see the fault before if goes to SPK.

Dont get a Lo-Nox board unless you have a Lo-Nox heater. A converted board is a regular board that has had the Lo-nox tab broken off and you cant use on a non-Lo-nox heater.

Ah, ok. Hence I will venture out now and pull out the sensor and give it a whirl. I will stay with the unit to observe.
I'm not sure if my unit is Low or not. The manual has both Atmospheric and Low NOx on the cover. Where can I locate this info on my unit? I know I had looked at one point, but apparently didn't find it. I'll look again now, tho. Sometimes it's right there and you don't see it.
Thanks much!

 

[mrsfluff]

Ah, ok. Hence I will venture out now and pull out the sensor and give it a whirl. I will stay with the unit to observe.
I'm not sure if my unit is Low or not. The manual has both Atmospheric and Low NOx on the cover. Where can I locate this info on my unit? I know I had looked at one point, but apparently didn't find it. I'll look again now, tho. Sometimes it's right there and you don't see it.
Thanks much!

I've been out there for over an hour...the thing is running like a charm. ??? That's longer than it's run since this started. I left the sensor hanging, but did you mean to unplug it from the board? I used the original sensor to plug the hole bc I assume water would've escaped. But I do take things literally and hanging sensor means hanging sensor. Should I put the sensor back in and unplug it from the board? All the hanging sensor is doing is reading the outdoor temp which is currently 84...I held it in my hand for a few seconds and it went up and then back down when I let it go. Looks like the sensor works. lol

 

[bdavis466]

What's the model number on the sticker near the control panel? 406A is atmospheric and 407A is low nox.

20190801_164944.jpg

• bdavis466
• Aug 1, 2019

The atmospheric heaters don't have a blower and thre unit is 40" tall. The low nox heaters have the blower and are 30" tall

 

[Pool Clown]

Sounds like the sensor is functioning properly. something is up with the water flowing through the heater, ie, bypass, or unitherm gov. Put the sensor back in and confirm that the temp goes up erratically again. Then check the fault that you get when the heater shuts down. (post #31) If it is a HiLimit fault, check those two items i mentioned. You may need to call for service at that point.

 

[mrsfluff]

What's the model number on the sticker near the control panel? 406A is atmospheric and 407A is low nox.

20190801_164944.jpg

• bdavis466
• Aug 1, 2019

The atmospheric heaters don't have a blower and thre unit is 40" tall. The low nox heaters have the blower and are 30" tall

Hi there and thanks for the input. I don't have a sticker. My panel looks similar to yours but not my digital read out, so maybe yours is newer? I looked everywhere on it and found nothing. But it is about 40" tall and doesn't have a blower.

 

[mrsfluff]

Sounds like the sensor is functioning properly. something is up with the water flowing through the heater, ie, bypass, or unitherm gov. Put the sensor back in and confirm that the temp goes up erratically again. Then check the fault that you get when the heater shuts down. (post #31) If it is a HiLimit fault, check those two items i mentioned. You may need to call for service at that point.

I put the sensor back in (is that what you had meant for me to do, let the actual sensor hang?) and everything was working fine for as long as I could stand there. It was getting dark. So around 20 minutes. But before I did that, I also disconnected the sensor from the board just in case that is what you meant for me to do. Of course, I got an error message -SNS- and the the ones you mentioned earlier. (HLS1 HLS2) The heater wouldn't even start. Then I plugged it back in and, it ran fine for as long as I could stand there, temp rising to 2 degrees above the actual water temp as is normally the case.

Note: Only one time the temperature reading was erratic. It wasn't this time. So out of about a half dozen starts, only one time did the temp rise a degree a minute until I shut it off. It went from 84 or 86 to around 90 or 92 in a short time. A degree per hour is about normal for my pool.

I realized as I was watching the heater while letting the sensor hang that I had already seen it go off a few times prior. There were a couple of times when it didn't run long, like a minute or slightly more. I was standing right there. I didn't get anything but SPK. No other codes. So even tho I didn't catch it today, I do know that I haven't gotten any other error codes (except when I unplugged the sensor from the board).

Is it possible for an incorrect positioning of valves to cause a decrease in water flow? A slight bit of air in the system? I don't normally touch the valves except upon opening (and for the cleaner). BUT...I ran the heater for a full 24 hours after opening (in May)...no problems.

Finally...couldn't this be the board? Didn't you say to replace the sensor first and then the board? I've included a pic of my board. It doesn't look like the one you linked.

 

[Pool Clown]

The board i linked is an update to that board. Either board should work for you, but read this first:

Re: Your question about flow and valves...
Pressure switch in heater should protect against low flow (via low pressure) through the heater. But if you are having a problem with the Gov. or the by-pass, all bets are off, and the pressure switch wont protect against an internal FLOW issue, meaning a pressure switch cannot see a FLOW problem if the pressure remains constant, as it would.

I am always uncomfortable of advising one to buy a new board when i am not on site with my hands and eyes on the system. It is easy to sit here and say "you need a new board" when the symptoms only suggest, but don't definitively point to the board. Could the exposed bare wire on the old sensor be the cause? I suppose, but that particular sensor is actually two sensors just so the board can tell if it is going out. The board monitors both of the sensors to detect variances between them, and would fault accordingly. But you got no SNS fault, so there you go. The only other component of temperature reporting is the board... but not definitively IMO.

If the temp is reporting normally at this time, however the heater shuts down unexpectedly? Then something else is up. You noted that you saw SPK. Did it resolve and re-fire? Or did it hang on SPK until you did something like power cycle the heater. Then it came back on and ran fine (until it did it again)? That can be a ground issue, or a FENWAL problem, and, again, either an inexpensive fix, like to tighten a screw, or a pricey part replacement with no clear or definitive symptom pointing to it other than it is the next component in line.

I can say that, in my position, i had the luxury of being able to start "swapping parts" when a problem presented itself that i couldn't definitively diagnose through (manufacturer provided) flow charts and/or my own direction from experience. That is why i suggested earlier that you may want to, at this point, hire a local guy to come and take a look. That way, when you buy the part, and IF it still had the problem, you have more of a recourse with him, than you would with me.

So, if you call a guy, you may have him look at the following parts: Unitherm -Gov.... Oh, and BTW, if he stops you and says "Whats a Uni-therm Governor", You may want to say, O never mind, the heater just fixed itself, Thank You, and hang up the phone, call the next guy on your list, lather, rinse, repeat. Anyway, look also at the internal by-pass, good grounds all around, especially the pilot bracket, Main board, and FENWAL.

Good Luck, Sorry i couldn't help!

 

[mrsfluff]

The board i linked is an update to that board. Either board should work for you, but read this first:

Re: Your question about flow and valves...
Pressure switch in heater should protect against low flow (via low pressure) through the heater. But if you are having a problem with the Gov. or the by-pass, all bets are off, and the pressure switch wont protect against an internal FLOW issue, meaning a pressure switch cannot see a FLOW problem if the pressure remains constant, as it would.

I am always uncomfortable of advising one to buy a new board when i am not on site with my hands and eyes on the system. It is easy to sit here and say "you need a new board" when the symptoms only suggest, but don't definitively point to the board. Could the exposed bare wire on the old sensor be the cause? I suppose, but that particular sensor is actually two sensors just so the board can tell if it is going out. The board monitors both of the sensors to detect variances between them, and would fault accordingly. But you got no SNS fault, so there you go. The only other component of temperature reporting is the board... but not definitively IMO.

If the temp is reporting normally at this time, however the heater shuts down unexpectedly? Then something else is up. You noted that you saw SPK. Did it resolve and re-fire? Or did it hang on SPK until you did something like power cycle the heater. Then it came back on and ran fine (until it did it again)? That can be a ground issue, or a FENWAL problem, and, again, either an inexpensive fix, like to tighten a screw, or a pricey part replacement with no clear or definitive symptom pointing to it other than it is the next component in line.

I can say that, in my position, i had the luxury of being able to start "swapping parts" when a problem presented itself that i couldn't definitively diagnose through (manufacturer provided) flow charts and/or my own direction from experience. That is why i suggested earlier that you may want to, at this point, hire a local guy to come and take a look. That way, when you buy the part, and IF it still had the problem, you have more of a recourse with him, than you would with me.

So, if you call a guy, you may have him look at the following parts: Unitherm -Gov.... Oh, and BTW, if he stops you and says "Whats a Uni-therm Governor", You may want to say, O never mind, the heater just fixed itself, Thank You, and hang up the phone, call the next guy on your list, lather, rinse, repeat. Anyway, look also at the internal by-pass, good grounds all around, especially the pilot bracket, Main board, and FENWAL.

Good Luck, Sorry i couldn't help!

First off, you have been a HUGE help. Are you kidding? What I learned alone here is of great value. I am a do-it-yourselfer from a fix-it family. I got a late start (cuz girls didn't do that stuff) but I will try to fix anything within reason. So I am very grateful! Thank you!

Ok, so...

I truly do not think it is a flow problem. Certainly, it could be. But I can hear the water going in and out and I can feel it. Does that matter?

I hear you on the board. It is very hard to say when you are across the country. Can you fly out? lol But seriously, I think that maybe I will buy the board, hook it up, and see what happens. I ALWAYS make sure I am dealing with a reputable merchant who will take returns. In that case, if it's not the board, boom. I send it back and THEN call the local pool guy. Of course, I don't expect much bc contractors in this neck of the woods? Oh my. Please. I could write a book. I mean literally. I've been in court far too many times chasing thieves. Hence my attempt to repair other than the cost. I did read someplace on this site where a guy had the same problem and the board fixed it. I messaged him but the post isn't very recent so who knows if he'll repsond. I've also seen other posts on other sites that went down the same way. So it's worth a try considering the number of similar posts.

Re whether it refired after shutting down. No, it didn't. And that is the problem that others whose posts I referred to had. They replaced the board (or sensor) and it worked. So I think it's worth a try. It's still warm out so the heater isn't a big deal except for those nights when you want that extra 2 degrees. I'll be fine without.

Thank you again x a million!

 

[Pool Clown]

Couple of things

You can have good flow through the SYSTEM, but have a problem with how the water is flowing through the heater.
Without getting too involved, all the water that enters the heater does not make it to the exchanger (to gather or absorb heat). A lot of it gets By-passed right to the outlet port.

If either of your by-passes (you have 2) gets damaged or otherwise fails and lets too much, or not enough water by-pass, you can and will have flow issues through the heater resulting, in some cases, increased temps., long heat up times, exchanger erosion, etc.

The trouble with "guessing" if you need a board is, since it is an electrical component, almost everyone will not allow you to return it.