- Apr 10, 2018
- 5,193
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45
Quote for IC60 Install - High?
- Thread starter DiverGirl1972
- Start date
Thank you both @PoolGate and @setsailsoon !! I think I get it now. To confirm, check my understanding on this...
So, for example, if for some reason my pump died and the flow switch were to my fail on my SWG at 5:00pm one day (and I didn't have a timer), it would continue operating, risking hydrogen gas build up until we found it and turned it off (hopefully before it explodes somehow).
If I had the timer and the pump dies, the SWG would still continue to run, but would eventually shut off itself off automatically at 10:00 pm if that's what the timer was set to (to match pump run times). So it just limits the amount of time the SWG could potentially run without the pump. Does that sound right?
Yeah, it was pretty annoying that t couldn't really get a straight answer. I am not sure the office employee understood what I was asking or how she presented this to the installer when she allegedly asked him about it.
When I call back this week, I am going to ask to speak with the installer directly versus trying to relay messages through an office employee. If they're not receptive, I'll find someone else to do the work!
Thanks again!
Michelle
So, for example, if for some reason my pump died and the flow switch were to my fail on my SWG at 5:00pm one day (and I didn't have a timer), it would continue operating, risking hydrogen gas build up until we found it and turned it off (hopefully before it explodes somehow).
If I had the timer and the pump dies, the SWG would still continue to run, but would eventually shut off itself off automatically at 10:00 pm if that's what the timer was set to (to match pump run times). So it just limits the amount of time the SWG could potentially run without the pump. Does that sound right?
Yeah, it was pretty annoying that t couldn't really get a straight answer. I am not sure the office employee understood what I was asking or how she presented this to the installer when she allegedly asked him about it.
When I call back this week, I am going to ask to speak with the installer directly versus trying to relay messages through an office employee. If they're not receptive, I'll find someone else to do the work!
Thanks again!
Michelle
- Jun 7, 2017
- 9,150
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
Your scenario is not likely, but yes, it could happen.
My guess is the installer had and has no plans to wire the SWG to be synchronized with the pump. They will likely try to sell you that the danger scenario is so unlikely that it isn't an issue. I think you'll be told they never do this, never have done this, and never once heard of this issue. They'll back this up with some huge number of years they have been in business. To top it all off, they'll try to sell you a mineral system.
- May 3, 2014
- 58,620
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Explosion near the SWG
We were watching TV and heard a major explosion after exploring in the backyard I went into my pool equipment should and found about a 16 in PVC pipe shredded 8in on one side 8in on the other side of where my SWG Is located. I have no Idea what to think. It appears the SWG somehow was not...
www.troublefreepool.com
- Apr 10, 2018
- 5,193
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45
Just refer the installer to the first section of the IC60 manual. That should end any debate...
- Jun 7, 2017
- 9,150
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
This is interesting. I am fairly certain it is the hydrogen gas that is the danger and not chlorine gas. I am thinking with no flow the gas builds up until the plates are mostly surrounded with hydrogen gas and then a spark between the plates ignites it.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,196
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
We categorize this as a very low risk but high consequence in hazop reviews. Different owners used to deal with these with different levels of protection. After massive catastrophes in off shore platforms and refineries new regulations stipulate protective devices that have to protect for two or more simultaneous failures (double jeopardy). But these are for industrial complexes where the risks are completely different than at a pool equipment pad. Thinking about Allen's previous point about what has to happen:
Poolgate, yes hydrogen is a very dangerous chemical. Very high energy release and a huge explosive range (0-98% as I recall) compared to most hydrocarbons explosive in very narrow range of less than 10%. I was a part of a team that started up and operated a commercial hydrogen plant at one time and developed a very healthy respect for this atom.
Chris
- Flow must stop. If all units are installed with Pentair's warning this only happens with obstruction in pipe or air pocket or something like that. Unfortunately not all units have this warning. Some even rely only on the flow switch.
- Flow switch fails.
Poolgate, yes hydrogen is a very dangerous chemical. Very high energy release and a huge explosive range (0-98% as I recall) compared to most hydrocarbons explosive in very narrow range of less than 10%. I was a part of a team that started up and operated a commercial hydrogen plant at one time and developed a very healthy respect for this atom.
Chris
It's the combination of chlorine gas and hydrogen gas that explodes.
Hydrogen gas needs an oxidizer to burn.
If it was just hydrogen, nothing would happen even with a spark.
Oxygen would work, but it's not as explosive as the reaction with chlorine.
Chlorine gas is a really good oxidizer.
There's probably no spark happening to initiate the reaction.
Hydrogen and oxygen need a spark.
Hydrogen and chlorine only need blue light to split chlorine gas into radicals.
Most likely, hydrogen and chlorine radicals generated at the plates initiate the reaction.
Estimated pressure 425 psi on detonation.
Hydrogen gas needs an oxidizer to burn.
If it was just hydrogen, nothing would happen even with a spark.
Oxygen would work, but it's not as explosive as the reaction with chlorine.
Chlorine gas is a really good oxidizer.
There's probably no spark happening to initiate the reaction.
Hydrogen and oxygen need a spark.
Hydrogen and chlorine only need blue light to split chlorine gas into radicals.
Most likely, hydrogen and chlorine radicals generated at the plates initiate the reaction.
Estimated pressure 425 psi on detonation.
Last edited:
Randrx2
Bronze Supporter
- Dec 13, 2018
- 436
- Pool Size
- 30000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I think the labor install is VERY high. I do not agree with the labor portion equaling the parts portion. For example, an IC-20 is about $900 but the labor is the same for both installs (same installation for both units).
The install of the SWG looks very easy given your setup. A good installer will be in and out in about 4 hours (probably less). I think $125 an hour for this type of work is fair. So install price would be $500.
A separate mechanical timer is what you will need. Basically, if your pump is setup to run from 10A-10P, you would determine how much runtime you need from the SWG and run it for that many hours between those times. For example, 11A-9P. A mechanical timer costs about $70.
Definitely get some more quotes. They should be able to explain everything to you clearly and break out their material and labor.
The install of the SWG looks very easy given your setup. A good installer will be in and out in about 4 hours (probably less). I think $125 an hour for this type of work is fair. So install price would be $500.
A separate mechanical timer is what you will need. Basically, if your pump is setup to run from 10A-10P, you would determine how much runtime you need from the SWG and run it for that many hours between those times. For example, 11A-9P. A mechanical timer costs about $70.
Definitely get some more quotes. They should be able to explain everything to you clearly and break out their material and labor.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,196
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Rand,
I agree the ball park factor is always just good for a ball park smell test. More detailed estimate is better so long as you can reasonably estimate work hours. It doesn't always go down though. On average it's pretty close. But in this case it sure seems like an easy job. Getting more bids is a good idea.
Chris
DeanP66
0
I agree, the installation price seems high. I've installed two SWG's in the last month and it took very little time. From the picture, cutting in the cell would be very easy. Just redo the entire leg coming out of the heater. Shouldn't be hard at all. Then just add a timer box by the electrical and wire the unit to the load side of the timer so you can set it to come on and turn off whenever you want.
- Jun 7, 2017
- 9,150
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
Some are looking at this from a DIY'r perspective. Yes I agree for me and others installing this ourselves would not be a lot of work and we know all the steps. For this installation you need electrical and plumbing skills along with a general pool knowledge. You are paying for that expertise. I do not fault a $1200 bid for this job. I suspect there will be 2 installers and probably 3 hours or so total time. I think the price is fair. You probably could get it done a little cheaper but this price is still fair.
You guys gotta remember the pool guy has overhead, insurance, etc. hes not a DIYer. The price is a little high but he owns the job and the call backs if any. No offense to lawyers but they charge 300+ an hour and cant fix the pool.....lol
That's low for many ambulance chasers.
Michelle,
The Taylor test kits can be obtained from the online retailer TFTestkits.net. Fast and reliable shipping to our shut down state.
Jeff
The Taylor test kits can be obtained from the online retailer TFTestkits.net. Fast and reliable shipping to our shut down state.
Jeff
Yep, I already ordered and received my new salt test kit, some other refills to start the year and an impulse purchase thermometer from TFTTestkits! I'm curious to test the salt level for the first time to see how much is already in there. Planning to get the pool open for the season on Sunday if the forecast holds.
- Jun 7, 2017
- 9,150
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
I have found the below to be surprisingly accurate! I still use my K-1766 before adding any new salt, but for quick tests, I just use this.
Amazon.com: eSeasonGear SALT-3050 Waterproof IP65 Meter, Digital Salinity PPM Temperature Tester for Salt Water Pool and Koi Fish Pond : Industrial & Scientific
Buy eSeasonGear SALT-3050 Waterproof IP65 Meter, Digital Salinity PPM Temperature Tester for Salt Water Pool and Koi Fish Pond: Conductivity Meters & Accessories - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
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