Question on Pump/Filter recommendations to replace my existing spa setup

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DrPhumbles

Member
May 15, 2024
24
Pennsylvania
Pool Size
1300
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Hi, first time posting. My wife and I bought a house that has a inground pool and inground spa, completely separate on 2 completely separate systems. The spa is approx 10ft diameter and estimate 1300 gallons. All the equipment for the spa is in our basement. I believe most of the equipment is original and the date of manufacture on one of my Century pumps is 2005, and I think everything was installed in 2005-2006. I'm running into some age issues with the pumps leaking, and my Waterway Clearwater DE filter (60sq ft) has cracks I have to epoxy for a temporary fix. I'm looking to replace everything except my heater, which seems to be in good shape since it's out of the weather. I want a cartridge filter instead of a DE filter, because it's in my basement and I have to backwash out of a small high window with the residual water/DE going into my sump pit, and I end up with DE all over my floor. I think what I have currently is oversized, since the filter is the same filter that was installed for my 26000 gallon pool. So current setup is the Waterway DE filter, Raypak heater (I think 400000 btu, propane), the pump for the filter is a Century 1.5 hp 3450 rpm (though for some reason there's a sticker on the pump that says "Powered by Total HP = 2.20 Century") and this returns through 4 jets in the spa, for the jets only it is a Century Centurion 2.0 HP 3450 rpm pump that returns through 8 jets (so I have 12 jets total). Problem I have here is we can never use the jets, because they're so powerful it blasts water out of the spa and I'll lose like 2 inches of water in 15 minutes and have to run the hose to fill it again. I'm upgrading my Compool CP3810 with the Easytouch upgrade kit so I can get a variable speed pump for the filter. I like the idea of being able to run a low filter speed constantly when we're not using the spa. Because the spa is in the basement, the pumps have to pump vertically 5 or 6 feet to get to the level of the jets (best guess), and maybe this is why they used a 2hp pump for the jets? All 2 inch pipe. So I'm asking for recommendations on if a variable speed pump should work for my filter and if so, what size/brand/model, what size/brand/model pump I should get for the jets and whether a dual speed pump would give me any benefit over single speed, what size cartridge filter I should get brand/model, and is it feasible to put a chlorine generator inline for this size spa and what I should look for. Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to provide as many details as possible.
Thanks,
Jeremy
 
Jeremy,

Most spa owners complain about lack of flow, not too much flow... :scratch:

Does your Compool system run just the spa, or does it run both your pool and your spa?

Having too large a filter is not a bad thing.. It just means you clean it less. And in your case, I think the bigger the better.

You will still have to drain the filter to open and clean it, so the water needs a place to go. Also, with the spa above the equipment, you will need something to prevent the water in the spa from flooding back into your basement. Your DE filter's Multi-Port Valve (MPV) did that, but cartridge filters, which I love, do not have a MPVs.

I like large VS pumps, which seems counter-intuitive at first, but the larger the VS pump the slower you can run it and still move a lot of water. The slower it runs the cheaper it is and the quieter it is.. With saltwater systems, I recommend running 24/7, so with your equipment being in the basement, the quieter it is the better.

I run my 3 HP pump at about 1200 RPM, most of the time, and you almost have to touch the pump to make sure it is still running.. :mrgreen:

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
DrPhumbles said:
Hi, first time posting. My wife and I bought a house that has a inground pool and inground spa, completely separate on 2 completely separate systems. The spa is approx 10ft diameter and estimate 1300 gallons. All the equipment for the spa is in our basement. I believe most of the equipment is original and the date of manufacture on one of my Century pumps is 2005, and I think everything was installed in 2005-2006. I'm running into some age issues with the pumps leaking, and my Waterway Clearwater DE filter (60sq ft) has cracks I have to epoxy for a temporary fix. I'm looking to replace everything except my heater, which seems to be in good shape since it's out of the weather. I want a cartridge filter instead of a DE filter, because it's in my basement and I have to backwash out of a small high window with the residual water/DE going into my sump pit, and I end up with DE all over my floor. I think what I have currently is oversized, since the filter is the same filter that was installed for my 26000 gallon pool. So current setup is the Waterway DE filter, Raypak heater (I think 400000 btu, propane), the pump for the filter is a Century 1.5 hp 3450 rpm (though for some reason there's a sticker on the pump that says "Powered by Total HP = 2.20 Century") and this returns through 4 jets in the spa, for the jets only it is a Century Centurion 2.0 HP 3450 rpm pump that returns through 8 jets (so I have 12 jets total). Problem I have here is we can never use the jets, because they're so powerful it blasts water out of the spa and I'll lose like 2 inches of water in 15 minutes and have to run the hose to fill it again. I'm upgrading my Compool CP3810 with the Easytouch upgrade kit so I can get a variable speed pump for the filter. I like the idea of being able to run a low filter speed constantly when we're not using the spa. Because the spa is in the basement, the pumps have to pump vertically 5 or 6 feet to get to the level of the jets (best guess), and maybe this is why they used a 2hp pump for the jets? All 2 inch pipe. So I'm asking for recommendations on if a variable speed pump should work for my filter and if so, what size/brand/model, what size/brand/model pump I should get for the jets and whether a dual speed pump would give me any benefit over single speed, what size cartridge filter I should get brand/model, and is it feasible to put a chlorine generator inline for this size spa and what I should look for. Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to provide as many details as possible.
Thanks,
Jeremy
Click to expand...
Your motors are Century your pumps are? Sticker say Power by Total HP=2.2" because that is the total horsepower (amount of work and energy used) by the motor. Look on the smaller rating plate that has all the numbers. You will see an HP number (1.5) and a SF (1.5). That is the rated horsepower and then the service factor of the motor. Multiply them and you get the 2.2 total horsepower (yeah, technically 2.25).
The Easy Touch upgrade will work with Pentair VSP only if you go with a variable speed pump(s).
If the jet pump you have is still good but too strong, just change the impeller (shaft seal, gaskets, O ring, etc.) to a smaller horsepower. Doesn't matter the horsepower of the motor being larger.
Two-speed pumps are no longer legal in the US because of D.O.E. regulations, but might still be available. You would need to get a 2-speed relay for your control system.
 
Jimrahbe said:
Jeremy,

Most spa owners complain about lack of flow, not too much flow... :scratch:

Does your Compool system run just the spa, or does it run both your pool and your spa?

Having too large a filter is not a bad thing.. It just means you clean it less. And in your case, I think the bigger the better.

You will still have to drain the filter to open and clean it, so the water needs a place to go. Also, with the spa above the equipment, you will need something to prevent the water in the spa from flooding back into your basement. Your DE filter's Multi-Port Valve (MPV) did that, but cartridge filters, which I love, do not have a MPVs.

I like large VS pumps, which seems counter-intuitive at first, but the larger the VS pump the slower you can run it and still move a lot of water. The slower it runs the cheaper it is and the quieter it is.. With saltwater systems, I recommend running 24/7, so with your equipment being in the basement, the quieter it is the better.

I run my 3 HP pump at about 1200 RPM, most of the time, and you almost have to touch the pump to make sure it is still running.. :mrgreen:

Thanks,

Jim R.
Click to expand...
Thanks Jim. Having a lot of flow through the filter is fine, but when the jets blow so much water out of the spa it's just a pain. Our pool is completely separate, so the Compool just controls the spa. I don't mind having water and some debris heading to the sump pump, I just don't want a huge build up of DE which is why I thought a cartridge filter would be the better option.
 
1poolman1 said:
Your motors are Century your pumps are? Sticker say Power by Total HP=2.2" because that is the total horsepower (amount of work and energy used) by the motor. Look on the smaller rating plate that has all the numbers. You will see an HP number (1.5) and a SF (1.5). That is the rated horsepower and then the service factor of the motor. Multiply them and you get the 2.2 total horsepower (yeah, technically 2.25).
The Easy Touch upgrade will work with Pentair VSP only if you go with a variable speed pump(s).
If the jet pump you have is still good but too strong, just change the impeller (shaft seal, gaskets, O ring, etc.) to a smaller horsepower. Doesn't matter the horsepower of the motor being larger.
Two-speed pumps are no longer legal in the US because of D.O.E. regulations, but might still be available. You would need to get a 2-speed relay for your control system.
Click to expand...
Hi Poolman, guessing you're right about Century being the motor, one pump has a Waterway sticker on it, the other isn't branded at all. The reason I want to go with new equipment is because I'm not the super handy type and the pumps are 20 years old now. I have had seals and O-rings replaced before by our pool company, as well as a cracked housing, but there continue to be leaks on both pumps. Our pool company went out of business and I have a cousin who is great with plumbing everything so my plan is to put all new equipment in and assist him with the install. Knowing the pump for my Jets is 2hp 3450rpm currently and pumping vertically 5-6 feet, but way too powerful with how much water leaves the spa, do you have a recommendation for what size single speed pump I should get?
 
Jeremy,

I asked about the Compool system because the upgrade kit will only control a pool and spa combination, it would not control two separate systems. That means the EasyTouch upgrade would work fine for you.

An IC20 would work for a SWCG.

My understanding of pump flow is that you can always control the pump's output. So if your current pump is moving too much water, you could just install a valve to reduce the output flow..

Let's see if Mark thinks I am full of it... :mrgreen: Calling @mas985

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
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DrPhumbles said:
Hi Poolman, guessing you're right about Century being the motor, one pump has a Waterway sticker on it, the other isn't branded at all. The reason I want to go with new equipment is because I'm not the super handy type and the pumps are 20 years old now. I have had seals and O-rings replaced before by our pool company, as well as a cracked housing, but there continue to be leaks on both pumps. Our pool company went out of business and I have a cousin who is great with plumbing everything so my plan is to put all new equipment in and assist him with the install. Knowing the pump for my Jets is 2hp 3450rpm currently and pumping vertically 5-6 feet, but way too powerful with how much water leaves the spa, do you have a recommendation for what size single speed pump I should get?
Click to expand...
You probably won't be able to buy a SS pump anymore because of DOE regulations so if you are going to replace all of the equipment, then a VS pump is likely in your future. That is not a bad thing because it gives you a lot of flexibility and can adjust the spa jets to any strength you want although cost is more. However, because of limited supply for SS pumps, those are no longer the bargain they once were anyway.

Pump DOE Regulations - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

But getting back to your current situation, a 2 HP pump is probably more than necessary for just 4 jets but do you have a blower as well? If a blower is too powerful, that can also create a lot of churn that ends up on the deck so I just wanted to make sure the issue is the pump and not the blower. Have you tried running those jets without the blower?

Forgot to mention that a throttling valve on the outlet of the existing pumps can be used to reduce flow albeit not as efficiently as a VS pump.
 
Last edited:
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mas985 said:
You probably won't be able to buy a SS pump anymore because of DOE regulations so if you are going to replace all of the equipment, then a VS pump is likely in your future. That is not a bad thing because it gives you a lot of flexibility and can adjust the spa jets to any strength you want although cost is more. However, because of limited supply for SS pumps, those are no longer the bargain they once were anyway.

Pump DOE Regulations - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

But getting back to your current situation, a 2 HP pump is probably more than necessary for just 4 jets but do you have a blower as well? If a blower is too powerful, that can also create a lot of churn that ends up on the deck so I just wanted to make sure the issue is the pump and not the blower. Have you tried running those jets without the blower?

Forgot to mention that a throttling valve on the outlet of the existing pumps can be used to reduce flow albeit not as efficiently as a VS pump.
Click to expand...
Biggest issue with throttling the output of a pump with a valve, especially one as powerful as a 2hp, is you will blow water past the seal and into the motor. Seen it way too many times.
Best option is a VSP. Second best is a VS motor like a Century V-Green EVO that will communicate with the Easy Touch. Third is a 1hp impeller for the existing pump.
 
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The pump operating point is probably already in the flat part of the head curve so only little extra head loss would be necessary to reduce flow rate by a lot.

Smaller jets would accomplish the same thing.
 
mas985 said:
You probably won't be able to buy a SS pump anymore because of DOE regulations so if you are going to replace all of the equipment, then a VS pump is likely in your future. That is not a bad thing because it gives you a lot of flexibility and can adjust the spa jets to any strength you want although cost is more. However, because of limited supply for SS pumps, those are no longer the bargain they once were anyway.

Pump DOE Regulations - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

But getting back to your current situation, a 2 HP pump is probably more than necessary for just 4 jets but do you have a blower as well? If a blower is too powerful, that can also create a lot of churn that ends up on the deck so I just wanted to make sure the issue is the pump and not the blower. Have you tried running those jets without the blower?

Forgot to mention that a throttling valve on the outlet of the existing pumps can be used to reduce flow albeit not as efficiently as a VS pump.
Click to expand...
Just so we're on the same page, I have 2 pumps for the spa. One pump, on the filter, returns through 4 jets. Then the other 8 jets are on the other pump with a blower. I'm unsure if the blower is spliced into my 4 filter return jets as well or not as it's been a while since we've run the jets and the spa is out of commission until I figure all this out, and the pipe from the blower just goes through my basement wall underground. Didn't really know what the black thing was until you mentioned maybe the blower being too powerful. I just went back to look at it, and it is an Air Supply blower, 220v 6 amp 2hp. I'm guessing that will be my main issue for the jets blowing water out of my spa. Wish they had a dial on that thing to vary the power. Should I just downsize that thing to a 1hp or 1.5hp blower?
 

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mas985 said:
You may not need the blower at all. Remove it from the air pipe and run the jets without it and see what you get.
Click to expand...
I'd agree but my wife is insistent that we have bubbles coming out of the jets, just not the kind of turbulence we're currently seeing. Looking at the manufacturer's manual the blower I have is meant for 14+ jets, with the 1.5hp for 8-12 which might work. Noticed another problem though in that I don't see a check valve, though I'm guessing this thing has run for 20 years without water getting into the blower. Probably have to cut one into the line. Unless for some reason a check valve is in the blower housing? Picture attached.
blower.jpeg
 
I don't think you understand. You don't always need a blower to have bubbles. Spa jets use venturis which draw in air by themselves without the need of a blower.

My spa does not have a blower and I have plenty of bubbles. If I added a blower water would be all over the deck like yours.

However, one of the reasons PBs install a blower is that sometimes the air pipe fills with water so a blower is needed to remove the water. If they had used a Hartford loop at the spa, the air line does not fill with water and a blower is not needed. It is all in the design. But a lot of times PBs will add a blower even when it really isn't necessary so that is why I suggest at least trying it without the blower.

Also, if you want to reduce the air flow in the blower you have, you can just drill some holes in the air pipe to let some of the air out. Also, if you want to adjust the air flow, you can add a diverter valve that bypasses some of the air around the pipe.
 
Can the venturis be underground? The pipes in the picture are all I have in the basement, then they go directly underground, under our patio around our hot tub, with no exposed pipes on the exterior. Everything is buried. I assumed if it had a venturi it would have to be exposed to the air.
 
Venturis are part of the jet in the spa wall. Here is a drawing of one:

1715909681383.png

The water line and air line have separate connections to the spa jet. The nozzle creates a low pressure zone which sucks in the air.

If you remove the outer eyeball in the spa and look into the hole, you will see the nozzle and the air pipe above it.

Note too that all spa jets have venturis. They would not work without them.
 
mas985 said:
Venturis are part of the jet in the spa wall. Here is a drawing of one:

View attachment 573635

The water line and air line have separate connections to the spa jet. The nozzle creates a low pressure zone which sucks in the air.

If you remove the outer eyeball in the spa and look into the hole, you will see the nozzle and the air pipe above it.

Note too that all spa jets have venturis. They would not work without them.
Click to expand...
Ah I see, thanks for the clarification. When I get things fixed up I'll try it without the blower to see what happens. Looks like the blowers aren't too expensive and swapping it out shouldn't be hard if I have to go that route. I know currently the jets coming from the filter blow no air and have the same Eyeball. We had our spa and pool refinished last year, with bluestone coping, and when it was demo'd I looked in the holes and saw the nozzle, but above the nozzle was solid concrete that the coping rested on. I believe everything was built by Sylvan pools originally, who I'm told aren't known for quality work. We just bought the house 3 years ago. As an aside, do you have any variable and single speed pump brands you'd recommend? Our pool has a 1.5hp variable speed Hayward that seems to be doing pretty well.
 
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