Pump not priming, no pressure to filter. Cannot reproduce pump leak

[Jon008]

Pool pump: Pentair SF-N1-1-1
Pool Filter: Pentair Tagelus

The pump and filter sit at the bottom of an eight foot retaining wall that holds my pool.

I went to open my pool last weekend and cannot get the pump to prime and the pressure gauge reads zero in the filter when the filter is set on filter mode. I tried priming under re-circulate to bypass the filter but no water is being sucked into the skimmer or bottom drain. I've tried priming with just the bottom drain open or just the skimmer open with no luck.

Yesterday I had a pool company come out and they filled what I assume is the pump with water and then showed me water pouring from the bottom of the pump. I never actually saw where they put the water but I'm assuming they just filled the pump basket area. They said my pump was cracked. I'm a little skeptical of their analysis because when I fill the pump basket area with water I can get it to stay full. Only when I turn the pump on do I notice a drop in the water level in the pump basket area and then the pump never primes and no pressure goes to my filter. However, when I take the pump cap off I do notice that pressure is building in the pump basket area. Any clue on where else they could have put water in order for it to leak out the bottom of my pump? Would they be able to tell it's a crack without looking at it in more detail? Couldn't it also be a bad O-ring?

I also for the life of me cannot find the bleeder valve on my filter. I've looked at the manual for the filter and it appears like it should be on the opposite side of the sight glass but there's nothing there. I just have the sight glass and pressure gauge from what I can tell.

Is there something I'm missing to replicate getting the water to run out of the bottom of the pump? I feel like I'm going crazy. Both drain plugs were secure when he showed me the water running out of the bottom.

Thanks!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jon,

I am a little confused.. If your pool is 8' above your pump, water should be flowing into your pump all the time via gravity..

I noticed in your pic that both input valves to the pump are shut off. I assume this is just an old pic..

Are you sure you removed the winterizing plugs from your skimmer and main drain??

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[cowboycasey]

Welcome to TFP

see those blue ball valves coming into your pump.. They are closed in the picture, you need to open them like the red ones going back to the pool

 

[CrystalRiver]

Is your pad above or below the water line? If it's below, that explains the pressure building - water is entering the lines through the skimmer/main drain, and headed toward the pump. That water, when it reaches your pump with eight feet of water column above it, will make it difficult to get your pump lid back on. I have to use my body weight on my AGP.

The reason your filter pressure gauge is reading 0 is because there is no pressure. The pump isn't pushing anything, because there's no water to push.

You can use your backwash line as a bleeder. Open the suction line valves to the pool. Pump off, set the multiport valve (MPV) to backwash. That will let water flow from the pool, through the pump, and fill the filter, letting air escape via the backwash drain. Once the suction lines from the pool are full and the pump is full, you should be able to set the MPV to filter and then turn the pump on. This way, you don't have to wrestle with the pump lid against the force of the pool, and you needn't worry about your missing bleeder valve.

 

[Jon008]

Thanks for the replies all. Just to clarify I have opened the intake lines. I just closed them when I was done trying to resolve the issue for the day. All plugs and the gizmo in my skimmer have been removed.

I have attempted to backwash the filter before but no water was coming out of the backwash line after a couple minutes. Should I try and backwash for a bit longer?

I also would have expected water to show flow into my pump since it's a good eight feet below the pool water level but nothing comes out from either the main drain or skimmer lines to the pump. Is it possible for these lines to be air locked from winterizing? Should I run a hose down the skimmer drain and see if it comes out towards my pump?

 

[cowboycasey]

if those ball valves are open and the pump lid off water should be gushing out of the pump... There has to be something blocking it....

 

[Jon008]

if those ball valves are open and the pump lid off water should be gushing out of the pump... There has to be something blocking it....

I thought of that too but it seems crazy to me that they would both be completely blocked up at the same time. When I initially opened the ball valves there was quite a bit of air pressure built up behind them from when they were winterized. Could they be air locked?

 

[cowboycasey]

no idea.... what would be stopping the air on the pool side?? is there anything in the skimmer blocking it? how high is the water on the skimmer?

 

[Jon008]

I also have no idea. Just wondering if it's possible for them to still be airlocked. I can't see anything in the skimmer blocking it. I had a gizmo in the skimmer all winter. The pool is filled almost to the top of the skimmer and the level of the pool has been consistent for days.

 

[cowboycasey]

can you get a hose into your pump and push water back up the pipe towards your pool? or the other way.. Maybe something got in there and is blocking the water flow..

The only other thing I can think of is the ball valves broke and even though you turned them they are still blocking the water... those really are not the best valve, the Jandy valves are way better...

 

[JamesW]

Loosen the unions at the pump and at the valves and remove that section of pipe to see if the valves are plugged.

 

[JamesW]

What is the brand and part number for the valves?

How was the main drain plugged for the winter?

Hopefully, the valves will still work if you remove the top part.

Otherwise, there's going to be a lot of water coming at you fast.

Maybe plug the suction ports before you check inside the valves.

 

[JamesW]

Even if the suction is plugged, the pressure should be backfeeding through the returns.

If everything is unplugged at the pool side, then I would suspect that someone opened the valves and used rubber plugs inside the valves.

You probably need to plug everything at the pool side and then open the unions at the valves.

 

[zea3]

Here are some things you can check.

 

[Jon008]

Didn't get a chance last night to take apart the unions to see if there's a plug. I did stick a tube in the line and was able to get all the way to the elbow. Will try today.

One more thing I forgot to mention. My pool had what I assumed was a vacuum port but when I opened it water actually started shooting out of the attached line down by my pool equipment. I'm assuming this is a vacuum line that was never reattached to the pump or was this line some sort of air balance line and now I flooded it with water? The line runs from the side of my pool wall (same level as the returns) down to the attached picture where it just sits uncapped there. When I originally opened it, it was just full of air.

 

[cowboycasey]

the way the water shot out is exactly what your other lines should do..

 

[JamesW]

The uncapped line probably went to a pressure cleaner.

 

[Jon008]

The uncapped line probably went to a pressure cleaner.

Thanks, I've got a call out to the technician that replaced the main and skimmer ball valves back in February to see if he remembers if he would have put a plug in the lines themselves. Either that or it seems like the ball valves themselves are faulty and not opening properly even though they turn.

 

[JamesW]

Can you just open the unions and look inside?

You might have to plug the lines at the pool first.

 

[Jon008]

Can you just open the unions and look inside?

You might have to plug the lines at the pool first.

Is it safe to take the unions off when I can't plug the bottom drain (it's only 46 here so can't really swim to the bottom and put something over the drain)? The unions appear to be above the ball valves so will they still operate when I take the unions off? Just don't want to get in a scenario where I take the union off and the main drain starts shooting water all over the place and I can't get the union back on.