Pump Failing

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
23,164
I would upgrade to the Intellicenter with built in SWG power supply, an Intelliflo VS pump and an IC40 cell.
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
23,164
If you want to keep your existing SWG and get a cheaper option, you can use an Intelliconnect from Pentair.

It will control the Intelliflo pump and the heater and on/off for the SWG.

 

RDspaguy

In The Industry
Mar 21, 2020
1,178
Cabool, Mo
The SVRS (Safety Vacuum Release System) is simply a vacuum sensor in the pump. It could detect a loss of prime and turn off appropriately, just as it detects a rapid increase in suction caused by a person stuck on a main drain, which is it's purpose. But as was mentioned before, they create alot of nuisance problems, false trips, etc... They are designed to meet the requirements of the Pool and Spa Safety Act, formerly known as the Virginia Graham Baker Act, or VGB to us old pool guys. These are regulations that only apply to commercial pools, (in spite of the fact that little Virginia died in a private inground spa), but safety is a concern of all pool users. If the added safety and pump protection are worth the nuisance and extra $ to you, then get it. It might just save a life, or your pump.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
20,790
Bedford, TX
If your pool was recently built or has been upgraded to have two main drain covers, then the SVRS option is totally useless, and based on my experience with this pump, something to be avoided at all costs.

Even pools with single drains that have the raised drain covers don't need the SVRS option.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

eco-help

Bronze Supporter
Apr 4, 2014
144
Tampa, Florida
ECO,

Wow, I read all the posts above and if you are as confused as I am right now, we are both on the same page... I see that you are being fed a line of Bull - Stuff from Pinch a Penny.. A VSF pump will not protect your pump itself anymore than a VS pump will do.. The idea that you can set the VSF flow so that when "The heater kicks on" will make the pump increase the flow is just not right.. The amount of flow through the heater does not change when the heater kicks in. It is true that the heater may need more flow to close a pressure switch to allow the heater to work, but there is nothing that the heater does to tell your pump to increase in speed.

An automation system could do this, but it does not make sense to buy an automation system just to control the heater.

My suggestion is to buy a standard IntelliFlo VS (011028) and just set up a couple of speeds.. One for normal use and one for heater use.. During the time when you want the heater running just run at a speed the closes the pressure switch in the heater..

Yes you can install a surge protector.. Do you have one for you house? It is just a likely that electronic equipment in your house will be damaged as a VS pump. The pumps are designed to be outside.. I have a couple of IntelliFlo VS pumps at two rent house that have been running for 10 years and 7 years and they don't seem to mind the weather at all. That said, I have the equipment at my house in a shed.. Either way seems to work great.

You are just making this into a much bigger problem than it needs to be.

You have a bad pump and the Gold Standard of pool pumps is the IntelliFlo VS.

Maybe I just missed something, but after reading all the posts my brain has turned to mush.. :mrgreen:

Thanks,

Jim R.
I can appreciate where you are coming from and thank you for your input... it wouldn't be the first time someone said I overcomplicated things.
I find that coming to a new subject with v. little knowledge I tend to "mindmap". This is due to many reasons - one is I am an IT/instructor guy so that's what we do - and maybe more importantly.. many times I have headed in a direction, spent money and then someone tells me almost immediately after the install I should have gone a different direction (often for very little $ more) and it would have been a much better solution. Meanwhile I find myself "stuck" with something that frustrates me until .. well until it dies usually and I can forklift it out.
It's also a way to understand where all the vendors (pool shops I guess) are coming from and weed out the good from the bad.
It's a process but I have to get this done asap.. so the process ends.. well it ends today (Thursday)
I think also it is where one comes from.. as someone said to me.. "it's easy".. well it is easy if you have the underlying foundation for how the individual pieces work and how those fit into the puzzle of a system.. and presumably each system is slightly tweaked for a specified situation requirement.
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a qualified company out there (or I haven't found one) that will do this.. So it's up to me.. and .. hopefully with this forums help.. to figure this out.
Thanks again and hopefully we all learn something from this.. besides what else is there to do being couped up like chickens to roost in this time we are in.
 

eco-help

Bronze Supporter
Apr 4, 2014
144
Tampa, Florida
If your pool was recently built or has been upgraded to have two main drain covers, then the SVRS option is totally useless, and based on my experience with this pump, something to be avoided at all costs.

Even pools with single drains that have the raised drain covers don't need the SVRS option.

Thanks,

Jim R.
It's very old 2 skimmers with the main drain fed into one of them (my understanding of it)
 

eco-help

Bronze Supporter
Apr 4, 2014
144
Tampa, Florida
The SVRS (Safety Vacuum Release System) is simply a vacuum sensor in the pump. It could detect a loss of prime and turn off appropriately, just as it detects a rapid increase in suction caused by a person stuck on a main drain, which is it's purpose. But as was mentioned before, they create alot of nuisance problems, false trips, etc... They are designed to meet the requirements of the Pool and Spa Safety Act, formerly known as the Virginia Graham Baker Act, or VGB to us old pool guys. These are regulations that only apply to commercial pools, (in spite of the fact that little Virginia died in a private inground spa), but safety is a concern of all pool users. If the added safety and pump protection are worth the nuisance and extra $ to you, then get it. It might just save a life, or your pump.
Really helpful, thank you. I was sniffing that the pool shop fed me a line that the VS/VSF also provides the protection (minus the main drain entrapment piece).
 

eco-help

Bronze Supporter
Apr 4, 2014
144
Tampa, Florida
ECO,

Wow, I read all the posts above and if you are as confused as I am right now, we are both on the same page... I see that you are being fed a line of Bull - Stuff from Pinch a Penny.. A VSF pump will not protect your pump itself anymore than a VS pump will do.. The idea that you can set the VSF flow so that when "The heater kicks on" will make the pump increase the flow is just not right.. The amount of flow through the heater does not change when the heater kicks in. It is true that the heater may need more flow to close a pressure switch to allow the heater to work, but there is nothing that the heater does to tell your pump to increase in speed.

An automation system could do this, but it does not make sense to buy an automation system just to control the heater.

My suggestion is to buy a standard IntelliFlo VS (011028) and just set up a couple of speeds.. One for normal use and one for heater use.. During the time when you want the heater running just run at a speed the closes the pressure switch in the heater..

Yes you can install a surge protector.. Do you have one for you house? It is just a likely that electronic equipment in your house will be damaged as a VS pump. The pumps are designed to be outside.. I have a couple of IntelliFlo VS pumps at two rent house that have been running for 10 years and 7 years and they don't seem to mind the weather at all. That said, I have the equipment at my house in a shed.. Either way seems to work great.

You are just making this into a much bigger problem than it needs to be.

You have a bad pump and the Gold Standard of pool pumps is the IntelliFlo VS.

Maybe I just missed something, but after reading all the posts my brain has turned to mush.. :mrgreen:

Thanks,

Jim R.
Really appreciate this.. got it :) Intelliflo VS (NOT IntelliPro VS or any of the VSF ones)
I believe I do have a inexpensive house surge protector (<$100) (someone installed at the main breaker panel), I just figured for $80 I could have additional protection.. you know being it is Florida and every day in summer we have brownouts/power flickers... and pumps will not be in a shed or covered.. bolted to the floor next to the house with the ground wire.
 

RDspaguy

In The Industry
Mar 21, 2020
1,178
Cabool, Mo
Even pools with single drains that have the raised drain covers don't need the SVRS option.

I am sorry sir, but you have been mis-informed. Screwing on a drain cover does not make an unblockable drain.


 

eco-help

Bronze Supporter
Apr 4, 2014
144
Tampa, Florida
If you want to keep your existing SWG and get a cheaper option, you can use an Intelliconnect from Pentair.

It will control the Intelliflo pump and the heater and on/off for the SWG.

Much appreciate this. Not sure Automation in my budget.. presumably can be added later?
One of the things (I probably forgot to mention) is if my wife wants to operate this gear, having multiple places to turn things on is a problem.. ask me how I know... (multiple remotes for the TV, sound system, Apple TV, etc).. if it were all scheduled and speeds set appropriately for each (SWG, heater) well that would be perfect.. I just don't know why that can't be accomplished without Automation...
 

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JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
23,164
For new or existing pools undergoing renovation, I believe that Florida requires submerged outlets be protected by outlet covers that comply with the most current version of ASME/ANSI A112.19.8.

I believe that Florida also requires either multiple outlets or an unblockable outlet. Multiple outlets must be spaced three feet apart or on different planes so as to ensure that a single bather cannot block both outlets.

Unblockable outlets must exceed 18”x 23” or be in the form of a channel drain.

Where a single outlet is present, one must do one of the following: disable the drain, convert the outlet to a return, add a properly spaced second outlet, use a Safety Vacuum Release System (SVRS), vent line, gravity system, or any other method that would comply with ASME/ANSI A112.19.17- 2002, the standard for Manufactured Safety Vacuum Release Systems (SVRS) for Residential and Commercial Swimming Pool, Spa, Hot Tub, and Wading Pool Suction Systems.
 
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JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
23,164
Note that VGB originally applied only to commercial/public pools other than the requirement that drain covers meet the current standard.

Residential pools did not have to replace the cover, but if they did, it had to be a current one.

Each state or jurisdiction sets their own residential building codes.

For new construction, I believe most or all have adopted or incorporated one or more of the entrapment protections, such as multiple or unblockable drains if drains are going to be used.

Regardless of the law, any builder would be foolish to not follow the multiple or unblockable drain rule.

Renovations sometimes require an upgrade to the new standards and professional service companies will have to follow the code, especially if they need a building permit and inspection.

Even if the code doesn't require an upgrade during a renovation, builders might want to for safety and liability reasons.

Exactly what constitutes work that triggers the need for an upgrade can be confusing and unclear.

Does replacing a pump require upgrading to the new standard? It depends on the local codes and the inspectors or service providers interpretation.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
20,790
Bedford, TX
With the old flat main drain covers, it was pretty easy to sit or lay on the cover and get entrapped by the suction. By just replacing the cover to the current raised design it is now "almost" impossible to get stuck.. I am sure that it is technically possible to still get trapped, but at some point common sense has to enter the picture.. You are likely to get killed by thousands of other things we all do each day before main drain entrapment comes into play.

Jim R.
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
23,164
For a homeowner, making logical decisions is the rule.

For a service professional, they incur a certain amount of liability that can override what they think is logical.

They're going to do what they think is going to protect them as much as protecting the customer.

Should an incident happen, a lawyer will try to look for any reason to blame anyone who has money and can be sued.

A cautious professional will comply with any applicable rules regardless of whether they think it's necessary.

You have to also consider unforeseen circumstances such as a drain cover coming off.
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
23,164
It's really not different from a doctor or other professional who makes decisions based on their perceived liability.

It's an unfortunate fact of life that everyone has to be hypervigilant about liability and make certain decisions primarily out of concern about liability.
 

RDspaguy

In The Industry
Mar 21, 2020
1,178
Cabool, Mo
Jim, you are absolutely right about that. Odds of falling and smacking your head on the deck exceed entrapment risk by about a bazillion to one.
James, I sense you own a pool business like myself. Liability is often my primary concern, especially on public or commercial pools and spas. But I also always put safety above convenience, and am a strong supporter of VGB compliance, as well as other safety measures, in all pools and spas.
 

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