Practices in a Pool Store (Piercing the veil of ignorance)
- Thread starter Darkside of the Pool
- Start date
chem geek said:
I just purchased 18kg of Cal Hypo 65% for $36.43 at Canadian Tire and they also had Purox 12% in the big bottle for $5.49 on sale (it must be going bad), I bought both so the wife can add liquid bleach when I am away to simplify her maintenance and reduce her handling of chemicals etc. To be honest one pail of Cal Hypo is a lot more convenient for me than a cart full of jugs to haul, not sure I would switch to liquid even if it was cheaper just to avoid having to buy a cart full of jugs so often...that stuff is heavy!
I've tested the Purox stuff last year, turned out to be about 6%. I'll have a look again this week.
derekm
0
4JawChuck said:I can concur on the price and availability of some chemicals available in the Canadian market;
In general,
-Cal Hypo (pool shock) is cheaper than any form of liquid bleach product by bleach content comparison.
-Borax is impossible to find in large sizes useful for home pool maintenance (although I have not tried Costco yet), baking soda is much cheaper and readily available everywhere.
-Canadian Tire appears to have better selection and pricing than even Walmart or any of the US big box stores on a regular price basis, the Walmart nearest to me does not even carry Calcium.
-Muriatic acid is always in the "paints" section of the store to avoid proximity to bleach.
-Good test kits are hard to find, only one retailer here had the Taylor CK-2005 kit on the shelf and I was advised strongly that this kit was for pool operator professionals only and it was not required (thanks, I'll be fine).
I have had varied experience with pool store recomendations as to maintenance, most ask what method I use to maintain the pool and embrace the BBB method as an advanced operator technique. It appears to me that most people do not understand pool maintenance and the pool store owner/assistant has to decide how best to serve his customers depending on their level of competancy, i.e. if you appear to have little understanding you will be pointed to the pucks and algaecide and if you appear advanced you will taken to the industrial size individual chemicals.
Hope this helps other Canadians.
Where I live in Eastern Canada, Wal*Mart and Canadian Tire both have great bleach prices.
Walmart charges an even $2 Canadian ($1.94 American) for 5 litres (169 US ounces) of 6 percent house brand. Turnover is very fast, so it is always fresh.
Link:
http://www.walmartcanada.ca/details?tabId=6&departmentId=18&assetId=70319
Canadian Tire is selling 2.85 litres (96 US ounces) of 6 percent Ultra for 99 cents (.96 US).
Link:
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...trated%2BBleach%252C%2B2.85%2BL.jsp?locale=en
The price for pool strength liquid chlorine at both stores is always more than double the bleach price, so I stick with the ultra.
Pool stores here do not carry liquid chlorine, either bulk or bottled, and there are no big pool store chains here, so prices are quite high on all chemicals.
We also have plastics recycling here, so the bleach bottles don't end up in landfill.
Canadian Tire has the best combo of price and selection on cal hypo and other chemicals.
20 Mule Team Borax comes in 2 kg (4.4 lb) boxes, while Arm and Hammer Super Washing Soda comes in 3 kg and A&H baking soda comes in 2 kg boxes. All are commonly available in grocery stores at prices cheaper than buying the pool store equivalents.
Well, if we could only sell liquid chlorine in reusable jugs, we could cut down our prices without cutting down (so much) on profits, thus allowing for a more viable option, even if Cal-Hypo still comes cheaper... Some customers won't be bothered and will put chlorine down the skimmer anyways. A little more money and they could avoid clogging their sand filters with calcium! There ARE solutions out there!
Besides, left to their own devices when they do realize some product is BS, customers end up trying things that are NOT better but leaves the illusion it is:
One was using Cal-hypo in his spa 'cause di-chlor messed it up, result was CH over 500 ppm (Well water too, started in the 250sh). Truth is most pool owners don't want to put efforts in understanding the chemistry of their pool ''as long as it look fine''. They'd buy whatever you tell them ''might help''. Hust [Edit]Read ''Just''[End Edit] trying to only sell what ''will help''. And that means for me to explain WHY Dichlor led to disaster, How Cal-Hypo will lead to disaster, and why 2 weeks of Dichlor then Liquid Chlorine is the best options...
As a sidenote, we sell Cal-Hypo 16kg (not HtH) for 49.99$. The granules' size is bigger than HtH's, thus cause even more clogging - channeling in sand filters... Make sure to warn my customers that all rush on it in an attempt to save a few bucks... Y'know, when you borrow 10 grands on a new pool and skip off insurances on it and try to save everywhere, it leads to disaster quick enough.
I've read that in a poster's signature (and now seems to add a Pensée du jour to every single post Xo)
''Whatever the doctor do, the patient can undo it.''
Besides, left to their own devices when they do realize some product is BS, customers end up trying things that are NOT better but leaves the illusion it is:
One was using Cal-hypo in his spa 'cause di-chlor messed it up, result was CH over 500 ppm (Well water too, started in the 250sh). Truth is most pool owners don't want to put efforts in understanding the chemistry of their pool ''as long as it look fine''. They'd buy whatever you tell them ''might help''. Hust [Edit]Read ''Just''[End Edit] trying to only sell what ''will help''. And that means for me to explain WHY Dichlor led to disaster, How Cal-Hypo will lead to disaster, and why 2 weeks of Dichlor then Liquid Chlorine is the best options...
As a sidenote, we sell Cal-Hypo 16kg (not HtH) for 49.99$. The granules' size is bigger than HtH's, thus cause even more clogging - channeling in sand filters... Make sure to warn my customers that all rush on it in an attempt to save a few bucks... Y'know, when you borrow 10 grands on a new pool and skip off insurances on it and try to save everywhere, it leads to disaster quick enough.
I've read that in a poster's signature (and now seems to add a Pensée du jour to every single post Xo)
''Whatever the doctor do, the patient can undo it.''
The Purox stuff, advertised as "sodium hypochlorite 10.8%, available chlorine content 10.3%" tests out as sodium hypo 8.5%, available Cl content 8.1% (used 1.17 as solution density). pH 12.79.CaOCl2 said:
The 6% Ultra, advertised as "sodium hypochlorite 6%" (so 5.7% available chlorine) tests out as 6.3% sodium hypo, available Cl content 6.0% (Used 1.09 as solution density). pH 12.12.
So the Purox stuff is stronger and disproportionally more expensive.
Simply put, it costs
$0.12 per ppm chlorine with the Purox ;
$0.05 with the 6% Ultra stuff ;
$0.03 with the tasty 65% calhypo
to feed a 10m3 pool.
OK, this thread is now about various problems my customer have (and for which I do not have a satisfactory answer yet).
By the way, I was not the one suggest the change to Bromine (Sodium Bromine 35% solution, liquid), however, my customers were told that:
A) It would be less irritating than Di-Chlor (ugh...)
B) It wouldn't show on a test during the 3 days following the first application. (slow to act?)
C) To use Potassium Monopersulphate (about 2 TBS a day) to ''Activate Bromine). I believe it is shock treatment to compensate the absence of active bromine, yet.
Results: (Again, not tested by me, sadly)
PH: 8.0
Alcalinity: 100
Calcium hardness: 160
Free Chlorine/Bromine: 0
Combined: Unknown
Total: Unknown
Spa size: 1182 L
Problem(s): Won't show Free Bromine / Chlorine. PH very resistant to lowering.
Note: I believe the spa might be under regular use.
Hypothesis: Bromine doesn't show because it becomes combined. Thus, it would appear logic to test the Free Bromine / Chlorine after a few days of non-use.
Hence my question: Is there a factor I did not take into account (like some way or quirk bromine usage have compared to chlorine)? Or should I go with attempt to Raise Bromine / Lower PH while prohibiting spa use?
By the way, I was not the one suggest the change to Bromine (Sodium Bromine 35% solution, liquid), however, my customers were told that:
A) It would be less irritating than Di-Chlor (ugh...)
B) It wouldn't show on a test during the 3 days following the first application. (slow to act?)
C) To use Potassium Monopersulphate (about 2 TBS a day) to ''Activate Bromine). I believe it is shock treatment to compensate the absence of active bromine, yet.
Results: (Again, not tested by me, sadly)
PH: 8.0
Alcalinity: 100
Calcium hardness: 160
Free Chlorine/Bromine: 0
Combined: Unknown
Total: Unknown
Spa size: 1182 L
Problem(s): Won't show Free Bromine / Chlorine. PH very resistant to lowering.
Note: I believe the spa might be under regular use.
Hypothesis: Bromine doesn't show because it becomes combined. Thus, it would appear logic to test the Free Bromine / Chlorine after a few days of non-use.
Hence my question: Is there a factor I did not take into account (like some way or quirk bromine usage have compared to chlorine)? Or should I go with attempt to Raise Bromine / Lower PH while prohibiting spa use?
Sodium bromide (NaBr) needs an oxidizer in order to convert onto useful bromine (and show up on a test), MPS is what is usually suggested but you can use any chlorinated product. This bromine program is known as a "two step" program, NaBr plus an oxidizer.
Once the bromine is spent it is "reactivated" by whatever oxidizer you add. It's a cycle. Once on bromine forever on bromine. Sort of reminds me of that saying, "Once a Squire forever a Squire, but once a Knight ... is never enough."
Anyhow, as for bromine irritation there have been several documented cases of pneumonitis and reactive airways dysfunction syndrome secondary to bromine and hydrobromic acid exposure according to the American College of Chest Physicians. I think, and this is my opinion, that Arch at one point pulled of of the bromine market because of possible toxicity issues.
Once the bromine is spent it is "reactivated" by whatever oxidizer you add. It's a cycle. Once on bromine forever on bromine. Sort of reminds me of that saying, "Once a Squire forever a Squire, but once a Knight ... is never enough."
Anyhow, as for bromine irritation there have been several documented cases of pneumonitis and reactive airways dysfunction syndrome secondary to bromine and hydrobromic acid exposure according to the American College of Chest Physicians. I think, and this is my opinion, that Arch at one point pulled of of the bromine market because of possible toxicity issues.
I concur.thecanuck22 said:
Where I work the owner has a saying, "People do business with people they trust." The place is huge; it works. But by the same token, we see an awful lot of our repeat customers with costco tires and batteries.... it tends to Tick me off that they bring the crummy work to me but when there's some easy money, someone else gets the gravy.
And the thing is, our prices aren't much higher than costco! The difference on a battery is probably the same as the money they spent on gas to drive over there. But I digress.
So treating people honest and fair is good business, but salesmanship is what pays the wages. If you're going to take this man's money, you need to do what he hired you to do.
You toe the company line. If you worked for Coca-Cola, how long do you think you'd last telling people that Pepsi tastes better?
It's laudable that you try to get people to maintain their pool in the simplest way. Even if you know that that bucket of dust is just baking soda marked up 400%, if they need baking soda, that bucket's what they need. Don't send them to Walmart to buy it cheaper. Your job is to sell; they can always say no if they think it's too expensive.
If you think Walmart has a better setup, go apply there.
Richard320 said:
(read, ''Yet'') Not hiding the fact Alcalinity Control is baking soda never actually caused a customer to say: ''Then I'll go buy some at Wal-Mart''. But not telling Di-chlor contains Cyanuric Acid did cause a few problems in their spas pushed customers to actually try and fix them themselves, and in turn, buy their chemicals elsewhere since the ''confidence bond'' (probably not translated so good from french) was broken.
The Canuck, and through PMs CaOCl2, made me think about it more deeply. I'll still sell OUR products, find solutions with tools at my disposal, after all we do have a few items worthy. But I won't hide the truth about those that are Bullsh... less than reliable or not really needed... Like the phosphate test, or Nature2, or linearquat or...
CaOCl2, this means that if there is no reading, there's simply not enough oxidizer? Should I consider making them add more oxidizer? I heard about the cycle and inability to return to chlorine afterward... but left to its own designs long enough, would Bromine simply ''go away''?CaOCl2 said:
Bromine does go away eventually, but it takes so long (months to years) that this isn't a practical way to get rid of bromine.
Very helpful (and not just to me).
Next one puzzles me as well.
Pool Size: 61400L (Aboveground 24' large, 52'' high)
Chlorinating System: Zodiac Clearwater SWG (requires 4000 ppm salt)
PH: 7.6
FC: 0.5 (much higher at the time of the problem)
CC: 0
TC: 0.5
ALC: 40
CH: 60
Salt: 4300
No trace of Iron/Copper/Maganese nor Cyanuric Acid. Pool is new and freshly filled (and parameters pretty in line with city's water.) SWG at the moment of the incident was working on ''Superchlorinate''. While installing his steps, customer jumped into the water. It took a while (while in the water) and when he got out he noticed his left arm was covered with some kind of rash... lil' red buttons.
Problem is... why would it only affect the arm should it come from pool water? Was it longer exposed? Could it have came from a bacteria? Water chemistry showed no sign of acidity (which surprised me), and the pool was (we think) properly chlorinated. Customer thought at first it was too much chlorine, but never had that from regular chlorine, which is what the SWG produces, except for calcium/cyanuric acid. But then again, the pool was not stabilized, so there's no warranty there were chlorine where the customer stood...
On a side note, I took time to explain how Cyanuric Acid would cause chlorine generated to last longer, would cause a lesser usage of his cell, extend the cell's life, and thus saves money on short and long term. Amidoinrite?
Next one puzzles me as well.
Pool Size: 61400L (Aboveground 24' large, 52'' high)
Chlorinating System: Zodiac Clearwater SWG (requires 4000 ppm salt)
PH: 7.6
FC: 0.5 (much higher at the time of the problem)
CC: 0
TC: 0.5
ALC: 40
CH: 60
Salt: 4300
No trace of Iron/Copper/Maganese nor Cyanuric Acid. Pool is new and freshly filled (and parameters pretty in line with city's water.) SWG at the moment of the incident was working on ''Superchlorinate''. While installing his steps, customer jumped into the water. It took a while (while in the water) and when he got out he noticed his left arm was covered with some kind of rash... lil' red buttons.
Problem is... why would it only affect the arm should it come from pool water? Was it longer exposed? Could it have came from a bacteria? Water chemistry showed no sign of acidity (which surprised me), and the pool was (we think) properly chlorinated. Customer thought at first it was too much chlorine, but never had that from regular chlorine, which is what the SWG produces, except for calcium/cyanuric acid. But then again, the pool was not stabilized, so there's no warranty there were chlorine where the customer stood...
On a side note, I took time to explain how Cyanuric Acid would cause chlorine generated to last longer, would cause a lesser usage of his cell, extend the cell's life, and thus saves money on short and long term. Amidoinrite?
When CYA is zero, it is very easy for chlorine to be high enough to cause problems (10+) or low enough to cause problems (0). Also, CC is much more likely.
It also sounds like TA was too low, if I am reading your results correctly, which allows PH to change rapidly. So the PH could have been low and then changed before it was tested.
It also sounds like TA was too low, if I am reading your results correctly, which allows PH to change rapidly. So the PH could have been low and then changed before it was tested.
JasonLion said:
Water chemistry identical to local tap water. So I'd go with first issue (10+) since the SWG was running on superchlorinate for a while.
[Edit] Next pay, I suscribe
[End Edit]
Interesting topic. But I still have to say that I MUST belieive in the products that I sell for me to push them. I am in marketing as well as an Ag Loan Officer. We sell our people, products, and service everyday. For Example: We have a Record Keeping system that is taylored for farmers and if I didnt beleive that it was a better computer software system than quickbooks that you can buy at Walmart, then I would never push it. But it is and does a much better job when you combine the expertise and knowledge of the Records Specialist that we have in our office along with the customer education program that we have with the Loan Officer and specialist.
Again, no matter what industry you are in, it still takes a combination of knowledge, marketing wisdom, and the right products that will prove that your Business is superior over anyone elses. For me, I truely have to beleive in our products and people in order to sell a NEED that our customers have. Sometimes the customers do not even though they have a need, but with the proper smarts, patience, honesty, and listening skills; I eventually show them with common sense that what we do is not only going to save them money in the long run, but we will continue to always be there for them; showing them value, and in the end, make them a better manager/CEO of their farming operation.
These concepts apply to all other kinds of businesses. What I dont like is people pushing stuff onto me and others when I truely dont need them and then can not explain to me why this would be better than other kinds of products.
The answer is: GET TO KNOW YOUR PRODUCTS, LEARN ABOUT WHAT YOU DO & THE PRODUCTS, SHOW THE CUSTOMER THAT YOU TRUELY CARE, BE THERE TO DELIVER THE BEST CUSTOMER SERVICE and in the end, you will gain many more customers through word of mouth and at the same time you will be selling your products that work and make the money for your company. Why keep products that dont work? Does it add to your bottom line? In my opinion, no sence keeping inventory that doesnt move. Keep the inventory that moves. Now, this is not the same as parts for the pool equipment. Thats a different kind of area and you have to know how much inventory to have and when you need to order, but if you have to order, be sure its quick because most customers can order parts themselves online even faster than a business can.
Again, just a few cents of my own. Do with as you all wish and have a great day!
Again, no matter what industry you are in, it still takes a combination of knowledge, marketing wisdom, and the right products that will prove that your Business is superior over anyone elses. For me, I truely have to beleive in our products and people in order to sell a NEED that our customers have. Sometimes the customers do not even though they have a need, but with the proper smarts, patience, honesty, and listening skills; I eventually show them with common sense that what we do is not only going to save them money in the long run, but we will continue to always be there for them; showing them value, and in the end, make them a better manager/CEO of their farming operation.
These concepts apply to all other kinds of businesses. What I dont like is people pushing stuff onto me and others when I truely dont need them and then can not explain to me why this would be better than other kinds of products.
The answer is: GET TO KNOW YOUR PRODUCTS, LEARN ABOUT WHAT YOU DO & THE PRODUCTS, SHOW THE CUSTOMER THAT YOU TRUELY CARE, BE THERE TO DELIVER THE BEST CUSTOMER SERVICE and in the end, you will gain many more customers through word of mouth and at the same time you will be selling your products that work and make the money for your company. Why keep products that dont work? Does it add to your bottom line? In my opinion, no sence keeping inventory that doesnt move. Keep the inventory that moves. Now, this is not the same as parts for the pool equipment. Thats a different kind of area and you have to know how much inventory to have and when you need to order, but if you have to order, be sure its quick because most customers can order parts themselves online even faster than a business can.
Again, just a few cents of my own. Do with as you all wish and have a great day!
reindeerboy said:
Amen to that.
Also add: Train the unexperieced so they too offer a good service... started working on a document that would teach the basis, step by step to new personnel... kind of a ''For Dummies'' guide. Will try and make it available once finished although it will be in french...
Of course, I'll give credits to Poolsolutions.com, TFP, etc.
Prelude: ''Do not take the following informations (or any for that matter) for granted, question everything, even the basis...''
Geez take off to Vegas for a week and look what happens.....
ahh vegas, thats another topic, which looks like this thread could already be split up into.
Anyways;
That sounds like a heck of an idea waste!! I do seriously plan on doing something similar when i am finished from the pool store. I wonder if you could buy your BS, WS and borax and stuff in bulk 100-200kg and be their discount chem supply, using there left over buckets and such? just an idea.... :idea:
Its not like people dont need chlorine, stablilizer, pH products, alkalinity increaser and other specialty items, they just cost a little more from a PS, its just that they should cost a little more BECAUSE you are getting rock solid advice as well.
Hey Darkside its not easy knowing about TFP and other forums and having a job that 'seems' contradictory, i justify it by telling myself 'well if they are to lazy or not smart enough to look online for information about there pool then that is just going to have to cost them one way or another.......'
ahh vegas, thats another topic, which looks like this thread could already be split up into.
Anyways;
Isnt blabbing what we do here?waste said:I agree with tc22's assessment!
But, when I move to Maine, I plan on having my own pool service business and I plan on 'shooting myself in the foot' by being honest with whomever partakes of my services I sincerely want to empower pool owners to be able to do all they can without having to rely on my services (the good of the more v.s. the good for just me - it's an ethical thing
However, I go next weekend for an interview with a condo/ cabin complex which has 4 pools and a hot tub - they sought ME out! If I land this, it will probably end up being a full time job (I'll do the pools and then do some unit maintenance or housekeeping - I'm very good at either
This will provide me the financial base I need to support my home, while still allowing me to run my 'side' pool business - and gives me an 'in' to other hotel/ commercial opportunities
Sorry for blabbing about myself so much
That sounds like a heck of an idea waste!! I do seriously plan on doing something similar when i am finished from the pool store. I wonder if you could buy your BS, WS and borax and stuff in bulk 100-200kg and be their discount chem supply, using there left over buckets and such? just an idea.... :idea:
The actual root of the problem you are getting at is a lack of education about exactly what it is that you need from the standpoint of the kid you were talking to at the PS, You should always consider the source when you are getting ANY information. Does the person you take your advice from practice, or has he done, that of which he preaches? When I first got my pool I knew to use a local PS, cost a little more? Yes. But every time i went in there I had questions and i got answers as well as water tests, I had a vague understanding of what was required for my pool from there. Someone who actually knows what they are talking about and works at a pool store will never sell you anything you 'Don't need', problem is there are many things that would make life easier for you given your situation and many people have no problem picking them 'extras' up, its not like I am cramming it down there throat or being a great 'salesman', i tell them what it could do for them, how much it costs and they decide.reindeerboy said:Here is my take on this being a POOL OWNER myself and dealing with our local PB.
I agree a bit with all of you, but not everything. I would rather have a business be up front with me than to decieive me into buying **** that I dont need! Seriously, I will continue to be that PB customer in purchasing services, some products such as LC and some others as my local pool business has a spring sale to help them generate additional income.
When I first started to work with them, their sales associates had not a clue what I was talking about and filled me full of BS about things that I really didnt need. Now that really ticked me off. :grrrr: I dont like being given a bunch of BS advice.
Its not like people dont need chlorine, stablilizer, pH products, alkalinity increaser and other specialty items, they just cost a little more from a PS, its just that they should cost a little more BECAUSE you are getting rock solid advice as well.
Hey Darkside its not easy knowing about TFP and other forums and having a job that 'seems' contradictory, i justify it by telling myself 'well if they are to lazy or not smart enough to look online for information about there pool then that is just going to have to cost them one way or another.......'
Quote Darkside;
.....honestly telling what my product is never actually made my customer go ''Oh then I'll buy it at Wall-Mart!''. Our products are often more convenient. Simply being honest....
Yes more convenient THIS time because they are there and you gave them something in return for spending more, the law of reciprocity. Something they probably will not pay for NEXT time, i say from experience.
.....honestly telling what my product is never actually made my customer go ''Oh then I'll buy it at Wall-Mart!''. Our products are often more convenient. Simply being honest....
Yes more convenient THIS time because they are there and you gave them something in return for spending more, the law of reciprocity. Something they probably will not pay for NEXT time, i say from experience.
TC22,
I agree with some of your responses and if the advice I would have been receiving was good, then totally agree with paying a bit more. I totally have no problem with that. Its when I first started out that I didnt know better and then did not take the time to educate myself. Looking back, I am only saying that if the PB would have been better and straight with me, I probably would of stayed a customer of theirs. I since then switched to a better store. I even talked to the owner and he knew his stuff. The owner gave me the facts and gave me a very good customer service guarantee.
I do agree that I should of asked more questions before assuming that this "kid" at the other PB knew what he was talking about. That was a wrong assumption by me that will NEVER happen again. I usually have a good read on character of people as that is what I do for a living, but this guy got me.
To me, the second PB I went too knew their stuff. I did ask many more questions and he answered them well and knew that different kinds of chlorine serve a purpose throughout the year ect. That will continue to keep my business along with the purchasing of parts and some products from him.
I will always need my local PB. Thats for sure. But its important to know that if I can save some money over the years by getting good advice from that PB, then they will not only keep my business, but will receive recommendations to others by me as well.
Thats the key in my book.
Nice discussion with you guys. I respect all of your opinions/recommendations and for taking the time to discuss this a bit more with everyone on this site.
Have a good day! Its hot this week and the pool is AWESOME. 86 degrees and loving it!
I agree with some of your responses and if the advice I would have been receiving was good, then totally agree with paying a bit more. I totally have no problem with that. Its when I first started out that I didnt know better and then did not take the time to educate myself. Looking back, I am only saying that if the PB would have been better and straight with me, I probably would of stayed a customer of theirs. I since then switched to a better store. I even talked to the owner and he knew his stuff. The owner gave me the facts and gave me a very good customer service guarantee.
I do agree that I should of asked more questions before assuming that this "kid" at the other PB knew what he was talking about. That was a wrong assumption by me that will NEVER happen again. I usually have a good read on character of people as that is what I do for a living, but this guy got me.
To me, the second PB I went too knew their stuff. I did ask many more questions and he answered them well and knew that different kinds of chlorine serve a purpose throughout the year ect. That will continue to keep my business along with the purchasing of parts and some products from him.
I will always need my local PB. Thats for sure. But its important to know that if I can save some money over the years by getting good advice from that PB, then they will not only keep my business, but will receive recommendations to others by me as well.
Thats the key in my book.
Nice discussion with you guys. I respect all of your opinions/recommendations and for taking the time to discuss this a bit more with everyone on this site.
Have a good day! Its hot this week and the pool is AWESOME. 86 degrees and loving it!
thecanuck22 said:
Problem here is that they do not receive satisfactory advices, yet. Working on training material for fellow employees, but changing our procedures is a slow process. Like with religion, it is hard to accept what you believed to be right is wrong, I have a hard time as heck in explaining and proving how muriatic acid poured in columns doesn't have a better effect on alcalinity!
The usual technique, here, when a pool goes green was to ''Shock&Algeacide''. That's all. No alternative, very few questions asked (often because of ignorance and unwillingness to learn more about the very products they sell, frustrates me to no end)... but it can do quite the difference! People using Trichlor solves their problem temporarily but since overstabilisation causes chlorine used thereafter to be inneffective, it turns into a nightmare: In our small town we are the sole source of sound advices, it is our responsibility to deliver. Worst part is that draining partially your pool would have been less costly, and then chlorine alone (un-stabilized, of course) would have been, alone, effective. Giving them an effective solution may have caused the loss of a sale of algaecide, but if all we do is give flawed advices, they might as well buy it at Wal-Mart, and they know it.
Even when it is not the case, not being offered to stabilize a pool first is kindof a weakness. I take time to explain how stabilizing a pool work, what happens when a pool is not stabilized enough, what when it is too much. Then I explained how a stabilized pool doesn't really need algaecide! They haven't tested their knowledge, few muster enough courage to do so, speaking to a person who really knows the stuff is quite a relief!
And that comes from proper questionning and information. Customers are too uncomfortable with managing their own pool, they come back to ME (not just our store) for more advices, or for me to confirm they're on the right track. I build a relationship with my customers based on knowledge and trust.
Further, I compared prices as suggested by CaOCL, Bleach is really not cheaper to use than HTH's Cal-Hypo around here, and draining half the pool is mandatory once a year, thus Cal-Hypo is a solid choice. I show my customers the price it costs for 1ppm/10 000L when I give my advices, and tell them to check the %age of free chlorine when they buy it.
I assure you, I tell every customer how Alcalinity Plus and Alcalinity Control (Dosed for Spa/Pool respectively) are both the same thing as sodium bicarbonate. They come back to buy ours. Few test alcalinity by themselves anyways.
I still want to point out something: Canuck and CaOCl, your advices made a difference in the speech I hold. I do not suggest people to use generic products, both because loyalty to my employer is important and because one might not suggest use of a product not labelled nor destined for another purpose. At least not officially. Nothing against Bleach and 20 mule team Borax, but as an employee giving advices to customers in store I don't have the right to propose their use outside the one they were made for.
[Edit:](This means: Thank you guys!)[Edit End]