Pool, Spa and Infinity Edge Pump suggestions

[hugheserik]

Good Afternoon All

I did an owner builder pool a couple years ago and learned a decent amount from that experience. We have moved and im in the middle of forming my current pool.
(I have attached Specs)- We have the pool, spill over spa, infinity edge and potentially 2 water features)

My question is- Would you recommend 1 pump for everything or should I get 2 pumps- one for pool and one spa and water feature? What would you do it it was your house?

I assume I should get a variable speed pump regardless.

My other question is size heater- my wife wants the pool to be heated as well. (for the 2 months its cold..lol) So what size natural gas heater should I get.

Thanks

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

I like 2 pump systems with one pump for the pool and spa spillway running through the filter and heater and a second pump for the spa jets that is not restricted by the filter and heater. That is what I have.

Will you want to run your spa jets and water feature at the same time?

What flow will the water feature need?

There is no substitute for BTUs. Get a 400K NG heater.

 

[HermanTX]

Welcome to TFP.

Your spa is a spillover into the pool so it is best to have the same filter pump operate both. However, if you elect to put in additional high pressure jets for the spa, then you could run those with a separate pump. So you would have 2 different sets of jets in your spa.

Many pools are built with separate pumps to operate the water features. It just depends what those are and when and how you want to run them. For example, If the water feature is set up on the same filter pump then unlikely you can run the water feature when in spa mode (circulation from and to the spa only).

It is hard to see all the things in your PDF file. you may want to list them out so it is easier for everyone to see what you are planning.

Have as large a heater as possible to enable to heat the pool and or spa quickly.

EDIT - it appears you only have 1 skimmer. Suggest you have 2 and have each independently plumbed back to the equipment pad. Control each by an individual 2-way valve.

It shows a 200 sq ft cartridge filter - go at least 1 size larger to a 300 sq ft or bigger. This allows longer time between cleaning.

 

[hugheserik]

Thanks!

So I have not selected water features as the spill over is a huge one. I was told I dont need a skimmer as my spillover is 7ft High and 34 ft long- its essentially one large skimmer...thoughts?

I have not thought of high powered jets for the spa but I like that Idea...I think I will go ahead and add a second pump and just run with it.

SIZE: _____20_____ X ___34.5_______ POOL SQ.FT: ____584______'SF PERIMITER: ___112______'LF


STANDARD DEPTH: __3_____ TO ____7___ SPORTPOOL: _____ TO _____ TO _____


EST. TOTAL GALLONS: ___22333____________ = POOL: __21608__________ + SPA: _725___________


SUNBENCH: ___118_____'SF FOUNTAINS: ___bowl_____ OTHER: _______________________'SF

 

[ajw22]

This is the way my spa is setup…

 

[ajw22]

So I have not selected water features as the spill over is a huge one. I was told I dont need a skimmer as my spillover is 7ft High and 34 ft long- its essentially one large skimmer...thoughts?

I am skeptical that the Illusion Edge will act as a skimmer. And if it does how will you clean the trough of dirt and debris?

Do you know what flow rate you will need for a continuous flow over the 34’ Illusion Edge?

You cannot do a two pump spa system like I have with the plumbing setup you have with one set of drains in the spa…

 

[ajw22]

These articles about Infinity Edge pools may help you…

Vanishing Edges 101

Avoiding the Pitfalls of Vanishing-Edge Pool Construction

A Pocket Guide to Building Vanishing Edge Pools​

Advice for avoiding costly errors in vanishing edge projects.

www.aquamagazine.com

https://www.lewakins.com/files/containment-with-vanishing-edge-lew-2002.pdf

@setsailsoon is currently designing a pool with an overflow edge and may be helpful.

Note that pH control will become an issue with the overflow edge as it will create aeration which causes pH to rapidly rise.

 

[HermanTX]

I just spent 4 days in a pool with a 12ft long vanishing edge.
It had a dedicated pump - with 3 returns to create the flow over the vanishing edge to a trough 6ft below. When the vanishing edge pump stopped, the pool was level and the only splash over the vanishing edge was due to kids jumping in the pool.
The pool had 2 skimmers - one on each end and on opposite wall of the vanishing edge. There was also a main drain in middle of the pool. The skimmers are more important when the vanishing edge pump was off - it was just like a pool without the vanishing edge.

Do you plan to continuously run the vanishing edge? It will drive your pH upwards due to the constant aeration. Having the pool be a regular pool or a vanishing edge pool gives more flexibility to water balancing.

One night, a storm blew through and there were lots of debris captured by the skimmers as the pool was in regular mode (no vanishing edge). the trough was full of leaves that blew in it and had to be scooped out manually.

 

[hugheserik]

These articles about Infinity Edge pools may help you…

Vanishing Edges 101

Avoiding the Pitfalls of Vanishing-Edge Pool Construction

A Pocket Guide to Building Vanishing Edge Pools​

Advice for avoiding costly errors in vanishing edge projects.

www.aquamagazine.com

https://www.lewakins.com/files/containment-with-vanishing-edge-lew-2002.pdf

@setsailsoon is currently designing a pool with an overflow edge and may be helpful.

Note that pH control will become an issue with the overflow edge as it will create aeration which causes pH to rapidly rise.

Great Article:

couple questions: Where should I put the check valve at for the containment tank? I assume I would just put it by the pump so it can be fixed easily when it fails?

Are Vacuum breakers typically come with the pump or is it an add on?

I think Ill be adding a skimmer- just in case and ill be able to clean.

 

[setsailsoon]

Hugh,

Please see my PM to you. I've been absent for over a month and I'll add some details on that later. Take a look at my pool thread located here. Starting with post #412 you can see where @JamesW provided me some weir calculations that show you need a LOT of water to get much flow over the edge. Thanks again James! This made me re-think the pool pump and you'll see the 5 hp Pentair monster pump was perfect for me. Your edge is actually a little longer than mine but the 5 hp may work for you also.

I hope this helps and sorry for the delay.

Chris

 

[hugheserik]

Hello All-

im building a large illusion edge pool (30,000 gallons) with about a 4ft overflow wall and a 2 foot tank...I also have a spa in the deep end.

Can you help with equitpemnt and brands...I did Pentair at my last house but I could never get the automation right...lights and all the sync...It could have been user error!

What im thinking:

all electric Jandys
1 VS pump for the pool and spa
1 pump for the spill over part.
I have 8 lights...will do nichless
Need a heater and maybe a chiller (thoughts)- natural gas
Filter
Salt Genorator

My main concern is brand...is there much difference between Hayward and Pentair.....preferences from either?

thank you

 

[ajw22]

My main concern is brand...is there much difference between Hayward and Pentair....

Same as the differences between Ford and Chevy. They are both good. Each has their strengths and weaknesses.

preferences from either?

I like the Pentair automation programming better than Hayward. Many folks find Hayward automation programming confusing.

I prefer the IntelliChlor where the electronics get replaced with the cell then Hayward that has the electronics reusable in a separate box.

Pentair seems to be a bit more forthcoming to DIY homeowners with technical information and warranty support. Hayward pushes more to go through an authorized dealer.

 

[DavidLast]

If you want a heater and chiller, a heat pump may be a better choice, depending on ambient conditions. However, the heat load created by the illusion edge will be significant and needs to be taken into account.

 

[ajw22]

If you want a heater and chiller, a heat pump may be a better choice, depending on ambient conditions. However, the heat load created by the illusion edge will be significant and needs to be taken into account.

A Glacier Chiller is a lot more energy efficient then a Heat Pump in cooling mode.

Heat Pump cooling uses a lot of electricity.

Also with a spa a NG heater will heat the spa much faster then a HP.

We recommend you leave room on the equipment pad plumbing, and electrical panel for a chiller and live for a season or two without it and see if it is really necessary for your comfort.

 

[Mdragger88]

One note about your decision - even the largest Jandy swcg (aquapure 1400) may struggle to keep up in the dog days of summer in sunny Florida with that sized pool, only being able to produce 5ppm/day at full till round the clock.
This will lead to replacing the cell faster as it depletes its finite lifespan more quickly.
A pentair ic60 however should make plenty of fc with the ability to produce up to 8ppm/day in 30k gal. meaning you won’t need to run it at 100% around the clock.

 

[hugheserik]

Hi All-

I am finishing up a 30,000 illusion edge pool with spillover spa. It's roughly 30,000 gallons.

My thought is going with Pentiar and running the set up as follows...any suggestions or correction is welcome. Do you think 3hp is overkill and I should drop it down same for the illusion pump.

1- 3HP VS pump to run the pool and the spa
1- 1.5 HP VS pump to control the illusion edge
1- Ic 60 - Salt/Chlor
1- Cartriage Filter
1- Heater- either the ETi 400 or the Mastertemp High performance heater
6- automatic Valve actuators
1- IntelliCenter Pool Control System
3 -ColorVision Bubbler 3
5-GloBrite

 

[HermanTX]

Your pump selection is fine. Stick with the 3Hp VS. Is this the IntelliFlow3 VS?
It is best to provide model numbers and part numbers of pumps to have specific feedback.
Globrite lights have had issues - search the forum to see the feedback

Do you need to ahve 3 bubblers? They make a lot of noise. Would be best to see them in action before putting in 3.

 

[ajw22]

Get Microbrite lights instead of Globrites.

Pentair LED Pool Lights - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com