12 May 2024 Equipment and Controls While Thin Set Dries

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I did a "pre-inspection" once, and had a similar positive experience. A case of honesty is the best policy. The inspector appreciated me owning my inexperience and asking for help.

And I've seen in my own neighborhood the leavings of a corrupt "big-time" builder, whose homes all have defects, with one house that is still uninhabitable due to ongoing litigation over defects, and he's currently happily building more of them in another of his developments!

Seems like both scenarios can occur even in the same building department.
 
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setsailsoon said:
Martin County is aware and sensitive to supply chain issues and make accommodations where possible (no safety risk).
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Now that is awesome to hear! Well done on making a good connection with them AND with them making allowances for these wacky times we live in!

SWEET on the stuff getting there to finish it up!!

Happy unpacking!!!
 
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Nov 2022 Update:

We're rapidly transitioning from home build to move in (boxes still everywhere - how could we have this much in storage!!) and getting focused on the pool...so I thought. Before we moved in I added a water softener and sulfur removal system. Pretty standard stuff and way over-sized for just the wife and me but when we have a full house of kids and grand babies we'll be in good shape. Every thing worked great for about 3 weeks. Our sulfide level is .3 ppm and definitely stinks. The sulfur removal system is the air contact catalytic carbon carbon type. The all have names like odor-eater, iron blaster mine is a DuraWater unit. Supposed to work well up to 7 ppm and ours works great. We are however noticing a lot of micro bubbles in the water that make it look cloudy. When a glass is allowed to sit for a minute or so it becomes crystal clear.I noticed this after I was going through the configuration to confirm all our "factory settings" were correct. One of the settings was supposed to be 40 and I think that corresponds to the seconds of air intake during the regen cycle. Ours was 10 or 15 so I raised it to the recommended 40. Is it possible I have the air section too large and am dissolving too much excess air that effervesces when it drops from 50 psi to atmospheric at the faucet? I'm thinking to try switching it back to 15 or so. Any other thoughts on the micro bubbles? We definitely did not have this to start. Here's some specs that may be important:
  • pH ~7.8
  • raw water Sulfide .3 ppm, output none detected
  • captive well tank ~100 gal
  • system pressure 45-55 psi
  • Softener 48,000 grain
  • Sulfur removal with 1.5 cu ft catalytic carbon, Fleck 5600 control head set up for air injection
  • Well tested negative for bacterial contamination
This well will be our fill water for the pool and main water source for make up water to the pool until I can see if there's enough rainwater to use and get a system for that installed.

Chris
 
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If you are mixing air into water, especially under pressure, gasses will dissolve into the water and then come out when the pressure is removed.

This is similar to what happens when you open a carbonated beverage and the carbon dioxide comes out of solution.

Maybe check with the manufacturer to see if everything is working properly.
 
Sulfur or sulfates in the water can be reduced to sulfide by sulfur reducing bacteria and the sulfide combines with hydrogen to create hydrogen sulfide, which is what causes the smell.

Dissolved oxygen can oxidize the sulfide back into sulfur or sulfates.

Since your system dissolves oxygen under pressure, it will come back out when the pressure is removed.

You might be inducing too much air.

Try to reduce the amount of air dissolved in the water.
 
Dissolved gases are very common in sulfur and iron removal systems that use air injection. It’s something you are going to have to play around with in terms of injection time. You can lower the air injection time only to the point at which the unit is not effectively removing the sulfide smell. That’s the floor. If you’re still getting effervescent bubbles from the faucet then you might switch to an aerator type faucet head to help agitate the water and remove the bubbles quicker.

Do you have an RO filtration tap at the kitchen sink?

An RO drinking water faucet at the sink can create clean drinking water with a lot of the gasses removed.
 
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Jan 23 Update

Took most of last year to get the house built and started up. Now I finally am getting moving on the pool. I've submitted one bid package to a contractor I used on the house. He has a family business that's pretty interesting. Each brother run related businesses that can do a LOT of my pool. One is a paver primarily that does sub bed formation and pavers another does excavation. Yet another does pool shells. It's going to be interesting to see if they can pass my pre-qualification process that includes inspection of work in process so I though I'd get a head start with them... I'll keep you posted.

I got an interesting email from the building department last Friday. My permit had expired... seemed like just a flesh wound so far since all I have to do is submit an extension request. But they have 2 weeks to respond - seems a little long. Once I get this going I'll get the remaining conditions addressed and this project will get some momentum!

Chris
 
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JamesW said:
Are you doing an infinity edge?

If yes, how long will it be?
Click to expand...
James,

Yes, it's 32' at the moment and as you pointed out previously requires a LOT of water for even 1/8" overflow. We're thinking about shortening that a little to make it more manageable. We also have a zero edge around the remainder of the pool that I may have to block off when flowing over the infinity edge. I've added a section of piping drawing below. With the zero edge the whole perimeter is a skimmer so the skimmer will not be used and I'll have to have this redrawn.

Chris
1674655583680.png
 
I would go with a 5 HP IntelliFlo XF for the edge pump.

It can do up to about 250 GPM, which gives you 7.81 GPM/foot, which is better than 5/16" lift.

You will probably never need that much, but it's nice to have if you want it.

You can probably run at lower speeds most of the time, which is much quieter.

The suction should be at least 4" (up to 235 GPM) and you should use 4 regular drains or 2 channel drains for the trough suction.


1674656089782.png

1674655958825.png

www.pentair.com

WhisperFloXF® VS 5HP Variable Speed Pump

The WhisperFloXF VS 5HP Commercial Pump is the first five-horsepower variable-speed pool pump that runs on single-phase or three-phase power.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com

 
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JamesW said:
I would go with a 5 HP IntelliFlo XF for the edge pump.

It can do up to about 250 GPM, which gives you 7.81 GPM/foot, which is better than 5/16" lift.

You will probably never need that much, but it's nice to have if you want it.

You can probably run at lower speeds most of the time, which is much quieter.

The suction should be at least 4" (up to 235 GPM) and you should use 4 regular drains or 2 channel drains for the trough suction.


View attachment 470515

View attachment 470514

www.pentair.com

WhisperFloXF® VS 5HP Variable Speed Pump

The WhisperFloXF VS 5HP Commercial Pump is the first five-horsepower variable-speed pool pump that runs on single-phase or three-phase power.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com

Click to expand...
Thanks James, very helpful again! Right now I'm pondering how the infinity edge is going to work with the zero edge on the rest of the pool. I guess when the infinity edge is running I will need to block in flow from the zero edge channels so all the flow goes over the infinity edge. Seems like elevation of the edge all around is going to need very tight elevation control - pretty difficult to construct. +/- .25" is not all that easy in 32'. But then the precise elevation control is really with the edge tile on top of the shell edge. Tile cement should give more precision for final elevations but still seems tough. I wonder if there's a way to make the channel insert adjustable to compensate for elevation difference?

Chris
 
I've seen a lot of photos of them and I agree it doesn't make sense so my guess is the only way to make them work is to slope the tiles up slightly on 3 sides of the pool so water level "rides up" by the overflow depth. This would require ability to block flow from the zero edge channels... not too hard since they are piped into the basin at each end to the catch below the infinity edge. Or else the infinity edge just works like zero edge channel that doesn't have much flow.

Chris
 
I'm no pool plumbing engineer, but based on a friend's current experience (and a lot of stories from here), I'd want a forth return in the other corner and I'd want all four of them to "home-run" separately back to the pad. Right now, if any one of the return pipes develops a problem, your entire pool function could come to a grinding halt until the pipe is repaired. With the home-run setup, you can isolate the bad return while still running your pool normally. You can also regulate each return separately, to dial in the circulation flow, though I expect that will be less important if you have no skimmer.

Generally, pools with skimmers should have their returns circulate such that debris is being pushed towards the skimmer(s). Sometimes that's straight across, or sometimes round-n-round. With your edge setup, I imagine that won't be necessary. But if you later discover you can't have the edges the way you want, and go back to a skimmer system, you'll appreciate being able to adjust the circulation pattern with independent control of the returns. Controlling circulation patterns is also handy for minimizing warm/cold spots, which can develop even without using a pool heater. My pool used to have them. During a re-plaster I had return eyeballs installed, which I could then adjust and aim, and I was able to eliminate the temperature variations throughout my pool. But I really wish I had control of each return at my pad.

In the grand scheme of pool building expenses, PVC and a few extra valves are cheap. Each water flow element should home-run: one for each return, one for each skimmer, and one for the drains (no running the drain to the skimmer, which is how some builders install the drain plumbing). That's how my "fantasy pool" would work, anyway.
 
Dirk said:
I'm no pool plumbing engineer, but based on a friend's current experience (and a lot of stories from here), I'd want a forth return in the other corner and I'd want all four of them to "home-run" separately back to the pad. Right now, if any one of the return pipes develops a problem, your entire pool function could come to a grinding halt until the pipe is repaired. With the home-run setup, you can isolate the bad return while still running your pool normally. You can also regulate each return separately, to dial in the circulation flow, though I expect that will be less important if you have no skimmer.

Generally, pools with skimmers should have their returns circulate such that debris is being pushed towards the skimmer(s). Sometimes that's straight across, or sometimes round-n-round. With your edge setup, I imagine that won't be necessary. But if you later discover you can't have the edges the way you want, and go back to a skimmer system, you'll appreciate being able to adjust the circulation pattern with independent control of the returns. Controlling circulation patterns is also handy for minimizing warm/cold spots, which can develop even without using a pool heater. My pool used to have them. During a re-plaster I had return eyeballs installed, which I could then adjust and aim, and I was able to eliminate the temperature variations throughout my pool. But I really wish I had control of each return at my pad.

In the grand scheme of pool building expenses, PVC and a few extra valves are cheap. Each water flow element should home-run: one for each return, one for each skimmer, and one for the drains (no running the drain to the skimmer, which is how some builders install the drain plumbing). That's how my "fantasy pool" would work, anyway.
Click to expand...
Dirk,
Thanks for the reply. Good idea on the extra return and "home run" piping.

Chris
 
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Update on long delayed pool project

Folks,

I think I mentioned previously we had some "distractions". That was kind of an understatement. My wife who is normally very active (rides her bike 12+ miles per day every day of the year) suddenly started having severe back pain last October. We thought it might have been just a strain from moving in the new house so just waited for it to get better. It didn't. Within a couple weeks she couldn't even get on the bike and the pain got worse every day. By December she'd had MRI's and a steroid shot that did nothing. Tried a couple new kinds of medication that made things worse and then finally bit the bullet with surgery in March. After that 6 weeks of strict no bending or twisting. It helped a LOT but not all we'd hoped for. She's now in PT and we're hoping she can progress from her current 50% recovery to 80 or 90... she can live with that. For most of the time since last October she couldn't drive and sometimes couldn't even get around the house very well. That really clobbered the pool plans.

We're fortunate that she's now at least self-sufficient for the most part albeit with some pain. At least now we're getting restarted. My pool designer is modifying the plans so I will submit again to the building department... I have to file for an extension filed as soon as he has the new plans stamped (this week I hope). Then I'll refresh bids. In parallel I will get a quote from the two best builders (IMHO) just to see if prices and schedules may have improved a little (doubt it!).

One thing I'm still concerned with is proximity to the house for the dig. I'll only have 3' from the large footers that go down about 6' below each of the patio columns. The structural engineer that did my house design indicates we will be fine so long as I don't undermine the footers. I don't see why that would be an issue unless concrete is delayed and we have a week of monsoon rains that can happen around here. In my previous life we'd drive some sheet piling to eliminate erosion risk or pour a wall. Both are pretty expensive and not sure we have the kind of equipment needed that I can fit back there. Any ideas on alternatives? Concrete suppliers are notoriously delaying small deliveries around here sometimes over a month. I feel like I have to mitigate this risk before I proceed.

Chris
 
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I’m so sorry to hear about your wife’s back troubles. What a sad situation. I hope she is healing well and that the PT is helping. Back pain is no laughing matter to any who have unfortunately experienced it. Sending good vibes.
 
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