Big Bad Hand

Member
Jun 10, 2022
7
Northeast Arkansas
Pool Size
37500
Pool Renovation

So bought my home last Spring and decided this year to get the 40x20 pool ready to swim. It is 3.5 ft on the shallow end and 9 ft on the deep end. Very dirty. We drained most of it. Pressured washed some of it to see what we need to do. Very rough in some places. two places with a crack. Multiple places at the upper edges where wood is showing. Guess they used wood somewhere in its wall construction. They had it covered before but it has mostly chipped away. We decided we would re-plaster the whole thing. After doing some research, we decided to use Sider-Crete Repair and Sider Crete Roll on Plaster. We would NOT repaint the surface. In talking to the sales man, he said all the existing paint would need to be removed.

Went out and bought an angle grinder. Bought two type of wheels. One is a diamond grinding wheel and the other is stripping wheel. In the thumbnail directly below this paragraph, you can see where I used both types of wheels. The patch on the left is the stripping wheel and the patch on the right is the diamond grinding wheel. No pressure was needed with the diamond wheel, and some pressure was needed for the stripping wheel to work. The diamond wheel takes the paint off and starts to grind into the concrete leaving a rough finish. The stripping wheel takes the paint off and leaves a glossy finish. I can't really tell if the wheel is causing the concrete to be glossy smooth or if it isn't taking all the paint residue off. The diamond wheel cuts into the concrete a bit leaving uneven surface as well. The diamond wheel is a whole lot quicker to remove the paint than the stripping wheel.
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I showed the same pic to the Sider Crete salesman (we been texting each other-lol) of the angle grinder and the finished product after each wheel was used, and he said it didn't matter which wheel I used, just use which ever one was easier as their product would bond to either one. I am still uncertain if the stripping wheel removed all the residue as it is smooth as all get out. I wouldn't think concrete would be that smooth without some sort of material added to it. But that's why I am here asking for advice.

The existing pump and filter will need to be replaced. A pool and spa guy from about an hour away (we have nothing like that local), said they would. After doing some research, I think that a cartridge filter would work best for us. Very little maintenance and filters better than a sand filter does. (the existing was a sand filter). Its also middle of the road in use and price it seems. If I go back with sand filter, the way the original owners had it backwashing was crazy and I really dont want it draining down toward a pond like they did. lol.
This pool was also a heated pool at one time apparently. We are removing that feature completely. Just have to repipe a few things where the filter and pump sit. I added a pic of what that looks like as well.

Questions:
1. Which grinding wheel should I use to remove the paint from the pool? I want to make sure that I do this right. I want to make sure that the Sider Crete plaster sticks the best it can and I also don't want bumpy surfaces.

2. You think my choice for filter is alright? I can't determine what size I would need to go with though for this size pool. Also what size pump to go with it?

3. Seems like there may be a few extra pipe fittings, etc where my filter and pump are located. Can someone verify that for me? Remember, we are removing the heater shown in the back of the attached picture.

4. Is there a way to test all this plumbing to make sure that its all still functional under all this concrete?

5. Is there a time limit on having the concrete open after the paint is removed before I need to put the plaster on? Should I have that on hand already? I don't want to cause any unforeseen issues by doing this in steps.

Any help/advice is greatly appreciated. We are looking to be in this pool this summer. :cool:
 

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Hi and welcome to TFP!

You have a REAL diving pool!! What fun!!! What are the ages of your kids? They are going to have a blast with this pool! @YippeeSkippy will love this pool as well!!
I am still uncertain if the stripping wheel removed all the residue as it is smooth as all get out.
My gut says you are right about the smooth not being as good as there is nothing for the plaster to grab on to.
what size I would need to go with though for this size pool.
Get the biggest you can get your hands on! The bigger it is the less you have to clean it!
size pump to go with it?
@Jimrahbe This one is for you sir!
time limit on having the concrete open after the paint is removed
The biggest worry is how high is your water table? If your water table is high there is a risk of the pool heaving up.

I am going to call in some big dogs for this one: @Newdude @jimmythegreek @ajw22 and anyone else that wants to weigh in.

The biggest input I am looking for the which wheel do they use to get the paint off and thoughts on the plaster stuff he is thinking of using.
 
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I wouldn't think concrete would be that smooth without some sort of material added to
It can be smooth if the wheel is basically polishing it instead of grinding uneven chunks out. Think of the 2 wheels as different grits of sandpaper. If the new material goes on thicker than the imperfections it may smooth them out. If not, I'd personally want the smooth surface to start.

Is there a hydrostatic valve in the bottom of the pool, possibly inside the main drain ? If so you have much less concern of the shell floating due to ground water or big storms.
 
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It can be smooth if the wheel is basically polishing it instead of grinding uneven chunks out. Think of the 2 wheels as different grits of sandpaper. If the new material goes on thicker than the imperfections it may smooth them out. If not, I'd personally want the smooth surface to start.

Is there a hydrostatic valve in the bottom of the pool, possibly inside the main drain ? If so you have much less concern of the shell floating due to ground water or big storms.
Well the salesman said it didnt matter which one I used. Their material would bond to either one. Take his word for it?

I don't know yet. I have not drained that far just yet. Should I go ahead and do that?
 
the salesman said it didnt matter which one I used. Their material would bond to either one. Take his word for it?
The salesman may not care if your finish is bumpy like the bare wall if the material goes on in a thick paint like fashion.

Or he knows it goes on 1/2 or thicker and will be smooth in the end.

I would ask for further clarification and go from there.
don't know yet. I have not drained that far just yet. Should I go ahead and do that?
The little bit of water left in the pool isn't doing anything to help. With any luck, you drain some and if fills right back up proving you have a hydrostatic valve, *and* it works. (y)
 
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Filters/pumps: Any particular brands to stay away from? Recommended Vendor to purchase from? Doheney's, Leslie's, poolsupply.com, etc.
That's a 2 part loaded question with no wrong answers.

You can replace the discount brands twice as often (or more) and still break even.

We prefer known retailers as there is tons of stress involved in the current shortage era. Inyopools, recsupply, and polytech pools are 3 others along with the ones you listed. These days you may have to take a chance on a little guy if the big ones don't have what you're looking for.

I am a biased pentair guy and a biased cartridge guy. Most folks like what they were given originally and are lifers. There are a million happy owners out there with the other brands and cartridge types. (Each)
 
See what is in stock and share it here. Right now THAT is more important than anything!

OH and you NEED good valves like pentair that can be rebuilt instead of the ball valves. You will also want unions on both sides of every piece of equipment to aid in the working on said equipment.
 
See what is in stock and share it here. Right now THAT is more important than anything!
I keep joking to folks that if they don't like the equipment that's available right now, they will be thrilled to replace it when it dies early in 7 years. If it lasts 18 years, they will be buying the same thing again next time.
 
The salesman may not care if your finish is bumpy like the bare wall if the material goes on in a thick paint like fashion.

Or he knows it goes on 1/2 or thicker and will be smooth in the end.

I would ask for further clarification and go from there.
Here is what he just said “Our product is applied between 3/16th and 1/4" thick. Any deeper areas should be leveled before applying the roll on plaster. If applied correctly, you should have a nice smooth plaster finish.”

1. rough surface should adhere something better. I don’t care if it’s smooth or not. I just wanna make sure it bonds right . Their material I will have to smooth out.
2. If I’m careful and use that diamond wheel to get it done faster, I won’t be cutting into the concrete that much. Just gonna have more dust everywhere to wash off.

What should I do?
 

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“Our product is applied between 3/16th and 1/4" thick. Any deeper areas should be leveled before applying the roll on plaster
Ok, GREAT. Now you know your tolerances. Knock down any larger bumps.
I’m careful and use that diamond wheel to get it done faster, I won’t be cutting into the concrete that much. Just gonna have more dust everywhere to wash off.
I'd go for it and you could always flatten any particularly rough areas with the other wheel after the initial grind.
I’m still draining but my wife went out in there to find any valve and doesn’t feel anything. I don’t think there is one in it.
OK. The water you left wasn't doing much to help so you are already at the will of the universe for shell problems. Don't rush, but don't take 6 weeks off either.
 
I keep joking to folks that if they don't like the equipment that's available right now, they will be thrilled to replace it when it dies early in 7 years. If it lasts 18 years, they will be buying the same thing again next time.
Makes sense. If I have a 37,500 gallon pool. Doing the math I researched, I should need a pump capable of 78 gpm, so that the entire pool gets filtered in 8 hours. A turnover is the full gallon amount of my pool that will run through the pump and filter in a particular period of time, so I understand. Im looking at filters and the gpm and filter rates can be very similar on a 100 sq ft vs a 525 sq ft filtration area . How does the square footage of the pool play a role in filter and pump selection? I put some links below that describe what I am seeing. Very similar flow rate and turnover time. Just sq ft is way different.


 
I am building my second 35k gallon pool with a 500sq ft cartridge and a 3 HP Variable Speed pump.

The difference between filter sizes is the frequency you'll have to clean the filter. 100 Sq ft will need cleaning 5X as much as a 500 Sq ft. That's it. The same goes for sand and DE based on their capacities

The 3HP may be too big for what appears to me to be 1.5 inch plumbing, but the variable speed means you turn it down to whatever HP you do need. The larger VS pump moves the same water with less energy and they literally help pay for themselves.

Hang tight for Jim's thoughts here.
 
If I have a 37,500 gallon pool. Doing the math I researched, I should need a pump capable of 78 gpm, so that the entire pool gets filtered in 8 hours.

Big,

That is just a load of Bull Feathers.. :mrgreen:

The idea that you have to "turnover" x amount of water per day to prevent algae is just a big myth. It is just not at all true. Chemicals keep your water clear and algae free, not the number of times your pool water passes through the filter. By the time your filter starts seeing algae, it is too late, you have already lost the algae war.

Your filter is there to capture the junk that falls into your pool and floats.

About the pump. I am a big fan of large VS pumps. I am a Pentair kind of guy and the Pentair 3 HP IntelliFlo VS pump is known as the "Gold Standard" of pool pumps. It is the pump that I normally recommend. Unfortunately, they are very hard to find lately due to the logistical issues that have effected the normal supply chain.

If you plan to get a Pentair automation system, then you need a Pentair pump.

If you do not plan to get an automation system, then any VS pump should work for you.

The basic rules is that the larger the pump, the more water it will move at a lower RPM. The slower you can run the pump, the less it costs. It is impossible to go too big with a VS pump or a Filter..

I run my IntelliFlo, 24/7, at about 1200 RPM most of the time, for less than $20 bucks a month.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
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