Pool Math........The App

[ptony101]

I'm on iOS, so maybe there's a difference there, but I went and checked mine when I read your post. I opened the app, and it said I had to upgrade to see the logs, then I went to TestFlight, and it showed there was an update available. When I went back to the app it was all opened up again.

Funny, the above was on iOS. So you didn't have to pay to upgrade/unlock? Before I upgraded, the app was working fine. My log wasn't blocked. It was on a whim I checked TestFlight, updated, then got the paywall message.

I also have it installed on an Android tablet. After upgrading I checked just to see if the logs synced, and they were.

 

[1slowpsst]

This app seems like it's going to be pretty cool to use. As of now, I take it there are not spots open for beta testing? I say this because I can't find the app in the app store and this link: https://poolmathapp.herokuapp.com/ returns a broken page.

Thanks,
Judd

 

[n240sxguy]

Funny, the above was on iOS. So you didn't have to pay to upgrade/unlock? Before I upgraded, the app was working fine. My log wasn't blocked. It was on a whim I checked TestFlight, updated, then got the paywall message.

I also have it installed on an Android tablet. After upgrading I checked just to see if the logs synced, and they were.

The pay screen came up, then I updated in TestFlight, then it was unlocked when I opened it again.

 

[n240sxguy]

This app seems like it's going to be pretty cool to use. As of now, I take it there are not spots open for beta testing? I say this because I can't find the app in the app store and this link: https://poolmathapp.herokuapp.com/ returns a broken page.

Thanks,
Judd

That got brought up about a page back. The link got broken somehow when it was submitted to Apple to approve.

 

[Dmanderson21]

We went from zip...to this awesome app. I move that there can be no apologizing. It's a beta, if you wanted a stable app, you wait. Thanks for all the work!!

I definitely agree. I'm certainly not complaining - just wanted to report the issue is all. The loss of data is a bummer but it's only several weeks on what I suspect will be years and years of long-term data so a hiccup more than anything catastrophic.

If the data is recoverable that's great. If not, no big deal.

 

[Esloser]

While I think $7.99 per year is reasonable as a member of this website and forum, I think you may be alienating a lot of people that haven't yet found the forum but are looking for a way to track chemicals or understand their pools. These people could then be lead into the forums from the app and become members themselves.

 

[friguy3]

While I think $7.99 per year is reasonable as a member of this website and forum, I think you may be alienating a lot of people that haven't yet found the forum but are looking for a way to track chemicals or understand their pools. These people could then be lead into the forums from the app and become members themselves.

I agree. $7.99 for someone that is in the forum and knows all this, they'll probably pay that. But for an app to go bigger, random people may not want to pay that per year. Feel like some random person is more whiling to fork over $$ one time versus knowing its a yearly payment. Maybe $1.99 a year or $7.99 a lifetime subscription? Or $1.99 with local storage and $7.99/year with cloud storage?

 

[The dog]

The other app in the App Store is $3.99. It's just a calculator. I'm not paying $7.99 a year. you are high! That's too much. Maybe a one time fee for $7.99. I'll make my own spread sheet and keep track of it. It's not that hard to look at a chart and do the math yourself. Besides the original pool calculator is still on the www. So it will be a little harder to use. More disappointment.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Here's my take on it - there are many, many, many, many things I spend about $8 on in a year that are a complete waste. For instance, the other day my wife and I got the opportunity to go on lunch date together (first time in months since we have small children) as my parents were happy to come over and watch the kids. We decided to try a new restaurant that had just opened up (the jalapeño-truffle stuffed meatloaf was INCREDIBLE!) and we both ordered drinks (the wife had tea and I had my usual Arnold-Palmer). The drinks alone cost about $5; if we had kids with us, the soda tab would have been easily over $8. So that's about $8 for something that I'm going to "release" back down the drain in a few hours.....

So, $8 per year for a subscription to a pool App based on a concept that saves me HUNDREDS of dollars per year on my pool (most people that I live around pay well over $1000 per year on pool service) and also based on a pool care concept that I happen to agree strongly with....come on, that's not even a debatable point....

As for newbies that might find the App BEFORE finding TFP - that's why part of it is FREE. They will be able to see through a small window into the world of TFP and then, hopefully, come to the website to see what it is we teach. They are certainly free to not pay for the full app and, as always, a user account on TFP is free to anyone that comes here (that will not change). Once they see and read about the value that TFP has been to tens of thousands of pool owners, I think they'll be more than happy to pay for the full app. Or, if they choose to do it themselves on calculations and logging (PoolMath is always FREE to access), that's their choice. For many years, all I ever used was PoolMath, a paper notebook and a pencil....but I'm very happy to pay $8 per year for a App that lets me log data, do calculations and, eventually, graph the results.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

The other app in the App Store is $3.99. It's just a calculator. I'm not paying $7.99 a year. you are high! That's too much. Maybe a one time fee for $7.99. I'll make my own spread sheet and keep track of it. It's not that hard to look at a chart and do the math yourself. Besides the original pool calculator is still on the www. So it will be a little harder to use. More disappointment.

Unfortunately, many older and un-supported Apps will soon be completely broken as Apple is very likely going to drop support for 32-bit apps. Here's a screenshot of the latest info from the "other " pool app -



Now this isn't a reason to go out and get the PoolMath App per se, but it is a reality that there are many apps out there that get launched to make a little bit of money on and then the developer loses interest and stops supporting it. Many of the other online calculator websites are either poorly coded and the dosing results are suspect or, as is the case with the "other" Pool Math website, the page hasn't been maintained since 2014 and so the data on that page is now far out of sync with what TFP recommends.

It is certainly your choice not to pay for an app you don't think has value to you and no one will ever say you have to have the PoolMath App to be part of TFP. But the value that TFP brings to the app it is developing is a very deep base of knowledge centered on teaching people how to care for their pools, not telling them how to do it. TFP is also run by a very dedicated, core group of people who truly believe in providing this service to the general public for "as free as possible" (notice you never see any banner ads on the TFP site or other money-generating schemes). And since this new App will part of that core philosophy of TFP, you can be assured that, for as long as TFP is a living and breathing web-forum, that App will be fully supported and always around to help people care for their pools.

 

[jblizzle]

Well stated Matt!

 

[Patrick_B]

Yes, well stated and detailed as usual Matt!

 

[friguy3]

I don't think it's an issue with us, we'll buy it, but...would you rather have 1000 of us at $7.99 or 10,000 of everyone at $1.99. Question is, are you catering to us, or do you want the app to be downloaded by people that have no idea what tfp is?

 

[jstephens1]

I'm good with 7.99 a year. I would want some sort of cloud based storage if I'm paying a subscription.

 

[Leebo]

For starters please note, the App is free. The calculator is free. What other Apps charge you for, PoolMath does for free. We want you to download this as opposed to others. This will give you the latest updates to pool water Chemistry supported by TFP. Others will not.......for free. It's only the pool logs at this point that will require a subscription. Do you see value in tracking your results? That's your call. Do you see value in supporting TFP? That's your call. Do you wish to help us continue to improve the App? That's your call.

Time after time as we were working on this App a mention of slapping a $2 price tag on it for the download was mentioned.....and opposed by myself. Why is that? We wanted to continue to make sure this App works across ALL platforms. We could not do that by charging for the initial download. We could not charge you $2 for the download on iOS then give it to you for free on Android. It would require two charges. That is the main reason we went with a subscription feature verses a pay to download option.

Lastly, I welcome the comments about charges. This is a beta, I want feedback! While it's not complete yet I can tell you feedback from this group has pushed us to make changes already. The comments from social login has pushed us to speed up sign on using your TFP Username/Password. The loss of some users data has pushed up to creating an Import/Export feature to give you the option to backup your data. We beg of you to please email us with suggestions to improve the App.

I'll be honest here, I'm a dork. I've been amazed for years the way App developers have changed the world by their work. It amazes me and has drawn me in. I've always been so jealous of their knowledge. One thing I've done for years now is watch WWDC. This is Apple's conference announcing major changes to their operating systems. During this conference I've always found myself saying three words, "That's just cool." To all of those who have concerns about the price tag please write me. Please offer suggestions and push TFP to create an app that leaves you saying "That's just cool."

 

[jstephens1]

Any value to tracking Pump PSI?


Edit. Duh just found the option

 

[domct203]

.....Sorry if you don't like like feedback.

Why do you feel this way? You voiced your opinion, so have others. I'm sure there are others who feel the same as you do, especially (to your point) the ones who have no idea of what TFPC is.

As leebo has said, constructive criticism is always welcome, and will usually help shape the way things turn out at TFP. There was a huge debate over the social network logins.... and a lot of constructive comments & concerns were raised and it will help drive the development phases of the app.

I'm sorry if anyone gave you the impression that we do not appreciate feedback, well constructive feedback.

 

[Leebo]

As a note to all,

Again today we submitted the App for approval. We've been rejected before as it appears our metadata resembles TroubleFreePool too much. Here's to hoping the next reviewer is a TFP fan!

 

[redth]

I want to echo what Lee said. We welcome feedback on the pricing, and depending on how many subscribers we have, it may eventually be possible to lower the price, or maybe even move some more features into the 'free' tier.

For now, it's really hard to know how many subscribers we'll get, so we're err'ing on the side of charging enough to be successful. There's always the question of 1000 at $7.99 or 10,000 at $1.99 but truthfully we don't know if there are that many people to realistically target as subscribers. It's much easier to lower the price later than raise it to stay afloat

Unfortunately the free model just doesn't really work. I've already easily put 250+ hours into this project, and while I do enjoy it, I don't think I'd put this much effort into it for free.

Also, one time payments don't keep supporting the server side infrastructure, or regular updates. The reality of this is most apps which have ongoing costs or ongoing development either end up folding, or releasing new apps with new fees (eg: Pool Math 2018, Pool Math 2019, etc) which basically makes it a recurring subscription, just with different semantics.

I love the comparison to spending $8 on anything else. I think most people with pools have a bit of disposable income, and a couple beers, a few coffees, or a lunch all amount to the same price as this subscription. Yes it's another thing to pay for, and if you don't feel that keeping track of logs, getting charts/graphs (which is one of the things i'm currently working on) are worth that yearly price, you're not obligated to using and paying for them.

Thanks to everyone who seems to support the idea of charging for this app. It's with your help that the app can be successful!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

250 man-hours (not to mention all the man-hours I've put in tormenting them with my alpha-version suggestions..)

A software professional making $80,000/yr (think mid-career) and getting 4 weeks of vacation time per year would make an hourly rate (if they only worked 40 hours/week...HA!) of $41/hr. A standard plumber charges twice that rate. So let's use round numbers and give our App developer $50/hr (still less than a plumber) -

(50 * 250)/1000 users = $12.5 per app user.

So, you can fiddle with the numbers all you want but if our esteemed app developer STOPPED working on the app today and left it as-is and wanted to recoup his costs by selling it to 1000 users, we'd all need to pay somewhere between $2.00 to $12.50 per user.

Considering he's been working for Nacho-Cheese Doritos and Dr. Pepper coupons, I think asking for $8 per user is a sweet deal!! Add on top of that his commitment to TFP and to making the app successful and useful, and $8 per year is a nothing-burger in my opinion....