Pool Equipment Questions

[Skyline]

Hey all,

I'm getting further along in my pool remodel. So I have a few questions about pool equipment installation.

New Equipment
Pentair IntelliCenter i8PS with IC60 Salt Cell
Pentair IntelliFlo VS Pump
Pentair Quad DE 100 Filter
Raypak 336k BTU Heater
4HP Waterway Viper 2-Speed Spa Pump
2HP Air Supply Silencer Spa Blower
5 CMP Brilliant Wonders Nichless 11W Lights in Pool (on dedicated transformer)
1 CMP Brilliant Wonders Nichless 11W Light in Spa (on dedicated transformer)

Questions

1. Backwash valve for filter. I know there's been numerous discussions on this topic, but I wanted to get any last comments. I'm figuring to add one to the filter. Thoughts on whether or not I should, and which one to get?

2. All my equipment will be in a small, fully enclosed and ventilated equipment room. Can I also install the SWCG salt cell in the room? I'm not sure if it can be located inside a room. I don't see why not, but I figure I'd ask.

3. Since all my equipment will be in a room, can I use Romex nm wiring from the panel to the equipment, or will I still need to put THWN rated wire through conduit? I know most systems are outside so they need conduit, but I think with everything being inside for me that I may not need to wire everything through conduit.

4. Below is my proposed setup for the Relays and Circuit Breakers in the IntelliCenter Load Center. Please let me know what you think about this setup. I'll be Using Siemens QP/QF breakers.

Relay No. Circuit/Equipment
1 Filter Pump (Used for SWCG)
2 Spa Pump (Standard Relay)
3 Spa Pump (2-Speed Relay)
4 Spa Blower
5 Pool Lights Transformer
6 Spa Light Transformer
7 Unused for now
8 Unused for now

Circuit Breaker Slot Equipment
1 Filter Pump Only – 230V 20A GFCI Breaker (Pentair)
2
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3 Spa Pump Only 12A – 230V 20A GFCI Breaker
4
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5 Spa Blower 6A / SWCG 1A / Heater 2A – 230V 20A GFCI Breaker
6
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7 IntelliCenter Panel Power – 120V 20A Standard Breaker
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8 Room Power / Pool & Spa Lights – 120V 20A GFCI Breaker
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9 Landscape Power – 120V 20A GFCI Breaker
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10 Open for Future Use
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Thank you,
Chris

 

[Jimrahbe]

Everything looks good to me but I would not install a multiport valve.. Just a pain for no real value..

Let's call Matt @JoyfulNoise as he has a 100DE...

Jim R.

 

[ajw22]

3. Since all my equipment will be in a room, can I use Romex nm wiring from the panel to the equipment, or will I still need to put THWN rated wire through conduit? I know most systems are outside so they need conduit, but I think with everything being inside for me that I may not need to wire everything through conduit.

Chris, NM cable is permitted to be run exposed on the surface of the building finish. If subject to physical damage then it requires supplemental protection. The term subject to physical damage is not defined by the NEC so it becomes an interpretative issue. Here's the actual NEC wording:

334.15 Exposed Work.
In exposed work, except as provided in 300.11(A), cable shall be installed as specified in 334.15(A) through (C).
(A) To Follow Surface. Cable shall closely follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.
(B) Protection from Physical Damage. Cable shall be protected from physical damage where necessary by rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC conduit, or other approved means. Where passing through a floor, the cable shall be enclosed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC conduit, or other approved means extending at least 150 mm (6 in.) above the floor.
Type NMC cable installed in shallow chases or grooves in masonry, concrete, or adobe, shall be protected in accordance with the requirements in 300.4(F) and covered with plaster, adobe, or similar finish.

The run from your panel along the floor to your pumps, heater, and blower needs to be protected from damage and should be in conduit.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I don’t think the multiport valve on the QuadDE is worth it. A standard plunger style backwash valve that is “standard” with the filter is adequate. However, my climate is very different from the OP’s and if there is going to be a lot of tree debris in the pool, you may need to backwash more frequently. If that’s the case, then I don’t think a DE filter is a good choice because backwashing means using a lot of DE and handling DE is just a nuisance. I would suggest a sand filter is a much better choice where backwashing frequently is required.

 

[Skyline]

Chris, NM cable is permitted to be run exposed on the surface of the building finish. If subject to physical damage then it requires supplemental protection. The term subject to physical damage is not defined by the NEC so it becomes an interpretative issue. Here's the actual NEC wording:



The run from your panel along the floor to your pumps, heater, and blower needs to be protected from damage and should be in conduit.

Can I use liquidtite whips like these...

https://m.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-6-ft-Gauge-Non-Metallic-Liquidtight-A-C-Whip-Kit/3616548

 

[Skyline]

I don’t think the multiport valve on the QuadDE is worth it. A standard plunger style backwash valve that is “standard” with the filter is adequate. However, my climate is very different from the OP’s and if there is going to be a lot of tree debris in the pool, you may need to backwash more frequently. If that’s the case, then I don’t think a DE filter is a good choice because backwashing means using a lot of DE and handling DE is just a nuisance. I would suggest a sand filter is a much better choice where backwashing frequently is required.

Yes, I'm talking about a plunger type backwash valve, not a multi port valve. I already have the filter so that is what I'll be using. I just thought it might be good to have a backwash valve to back wash one or twice a season, or before a teardown to clean the cartridges.

 

[Skyline]

Thank you for all the replies too.

 

[ajw22]

Can I use liquidtite whips like these...

https://m.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-6-ft-Gauge-Non-Metallic-Liquidtight-A-C-Whip-Kit/3616548

That will work.

 

[Skyline]

Just want to see if anyone has any input on putting the salt cell in the equipment room. And any take on what the benefits/drawbacks are for putting a plunger type backwash valve on the Quad DE filter. Thanks

 

[ajw22]

SWG in an equipment room is not a problem.

Plunger backwash valve lacks the RINSE/RECIRCULATE/CLOSED/DRAIN TO WASTE features of a MPV. You have to decide if that is important to you the way you are setting things up in an equipment room.

 

[mknauss]

It was my understanding that a Quad DE filter is not designed to be back washed. It should be pulled apart and cleaned when necessary.

 

[ajw22]

It was my understanding that a Quad DE filter is not designed to be back washed. It should be pulled apart and cleaned when necessary.

If that is correct that may not be the best filter in an equipment room.

Quad DE Manual is here —> https://edc.poolsupplyworld.com/wpdf/QUADDEOwnersManualEnglish.pdf

Maintenance section describes manual cleaning of DE cartridges or backwash cleaning using slide valve or MPV.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

It was my understanding that a Quad DE filter is not designed to be back washed. It should be pulled apart and cleaned when necessary.

Nope. It’s designed to be backwashed. Many of us don’t because the filter doesn’t load up very quickly and So simply tearing it down and cleaning it out twice per year is easier (and uses less DE). The backwash valve does have its uses so I would still plumb it in. The MPV for the Quad has higher head loss than the standard plunger valve so I would only use it if you plan to have 2-1/2” PVC at the equipment pad.

 

[mknauss]

Good to hear. Thank you for replying.

 

[Jimrahbe]

sky,

You need to make sure that your equipment room has a drain... You will often flood the area and water needs a place to go...

My equipment pad is inside a building.. But the pad is surrounded by a trench that is a foot wide and about 18 inches deep filled with gravel.

Never, ever.... bring you pipes up though a concrete floor if you ever plan to fix things later in life..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Skyline]

SWG in an equipment room is not a problem.

Plunger backwash valve lacks the RINSE/RECIRCULATE/CLOSED/DRAIN TO WASTE features of a MPV. You have to decide if that is important to you the way you are setting things up in an equipment room.

Thanks for the note on the SWG.

I had an old sand filter with a multi-port valve for a few years before this equipment upgrade and really the only thing I ever used on it was the backwash. So with the new Quad DE filter I'm figuring the only thing I would ever want might be the backwash feature. I am planning to pipe the plunger type backwash valve to piping that will do out to my drain area on the property, thus keeping everything in the room as clean as can be reasonably expected.

Nope. It’s designed to be backwashed. Many of us don’t because the filter doesn’t load up very quickly and So simply tearing it down and cleaning it out twice per year is easier (and uses less DE). The backwash valve does have its uses so I would still plumb it in. The MPV for the Quad has higher head loss than the standard plunger valve so I would only use it if you plan to have 2-1/2” PVC at the equipment pad.

Thanks for the reply. So I think I will just plump one in. Do you have any suggestions for which one to get? I have all 2-1/2" pipe coming to the equipment and back to the pool/spa. It will reduce down to 2" piping as it goes into the pump and through the rest of the equipment before bumping back up to 2-1/2"

sky,

You need to make sure that your equipment room has a drain... You will often flood the area and water needs a place to go...

My equipment pad is inside a building.. But the pad is surrounded by a trench that is a foot wide and about 18 inches deep filled with gravel.

Never, ever.... bring you pipes up though a concrete floor if you ever plan to fix things later in life..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks for your suggestions. The room does have a drain on the floor so I'm good there. The pipes will all come up through the ground outside the room and connect to all the ball valves and 3-way valves, then just the main suction and return lines will route through into and out of the room for the equipment.