Pool Equipment question

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ajw22 said:
What is the status of the pool? Gunite done? Plaster done? Water in the pool?

It is a questionable if you will have sufficient flow to split the water five ways on the returns to the three waterfalls and the returns. It depends how you intend to run the pool and adjust the valves. You also don't have valves to adjust the flow to each waterfall individually.

I would have put in a separate waterfall pump that would allow you to more easily turn the waterfall on and off and also have valves to adjust the flow to each waterfall. I suspect it is late in the build to install that.

I think you have to see how the builders design works once you get the water flowing. Then you may need to make adjustments in the plumbing or equipment to get it working the way you expected.

Having automation would make it easier to tune up and operate your equipment. With ball valves instead of diverters automation will not do much for you.

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Hoopla,
You mentioned somewhere about the volume to be close to 35k but you haven't said what your SWG is. So that you know for efficient SWCG it's recommended 2X pool volume. Also if you run the pump low rpm you may need to swing the hump of the cell to the bottom to work with low flow.
 
wireform said:
Hoopla,
You mentioned somewhere about the volume to be close to 35k but you haven't said what your SWG is. So that you know for efficient SWCG it's recommended 2X pool volume. Also if you run the pump low rpm you may need to swing the hump of the cell to the bottom to work with low flow.
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it is a Hayward turbo-cell T-Cell-LS-CUL meant for pools up to 30,000 gallons
 
jimmythegreek said:
How many drain lids are in the pool?

Theres no great way to fix this anive ground. The main drain will not be enough water on a single 1.5" line. A full size VS wont be enough for 12ft of sheers. You need a high volume pump. Best compromise is seperate the suction into 1 skimmer feeding the returns you have now. Then skimmer 2 amd main drains into waterfall pump out to 3 sheers. You need a 2way valve on each line for balance. Need 2" manifold minimum if the pump has 2.5" unions use bushings from 1.5 to 2.5. Gonna have to order 2.5 nobody really carries it. Whatever pump you use you need close to 150gpm amd get a small cartridge filter amd pipe that in just for the sheers
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There is 1 MD lid.
So the skimmer and the main drain would be diverted to the waterfall while it is being used but would it still be connected to the main pump when the waterfalls are not being used? Or do you mean permanently?

Regarding a VS, with these sheers they state a recommended is 144 GPM, but min is 72. So why is it that a VS would not work when the pump manual states they can go 120+, and do you really need to hit those recommended GPM?
 
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I am surprised that the pool passed inspection with only a single MD. That is a hazard and should never have been built that way. If it were my pool, I would not use it except when draining.

But with the current pump and plumbing, I estimate about 72 GPM total and that is using all three suction lines. With two suction lines, flow rate drops by only 1 GPM. Bypassing the heater and you get 92 GPM. Heat pumps have a ton of head loss and I don't think that one is an exception although could not find a head curve for it.

Going with a TriStar 2.7 HP VSP and bypassing the heater, you can get 127 GPM but then you must use all three suction ports. Also, velocity would be very high in the pad plumbing unless you up size both suction and return side pad plumbing.

Overall it is a very poor plumbing design.
 
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mas985 said:
I am surprised that the pool passed inspection without only a single MD. That is a hazard and should never have been built that way. If it were my pool, I would not use it except when draining.

But with the current pump and plumbing, I estimate about 72 GPM total and that is using all three suction lines. With two suction lines, flow rate drops by only 1 GPM. Bypassing the heater and you get 92 GPM. Heat pumps have a ton of head loss and I don't think that one is an exception although could not find a head curve for it.

Going with a TriStar 2.7 HP VSP and bypassing the heater, you can get 127 GPM but then you must use all three suction ports. Also, velocity would be very high in the pad plumbing unless you up size both suction and return side pad plumbing.

Overall it is a very poor plumbing design.
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At this point the pool contractor has contacted an installer from another company to come up with two options, one with a VS pump and one with two smaller pumps with two suction lines serving the waterfall

Both cases the T-Cell is being up sized and all the above ground plumbing is being redone and the waterfall lines are to bypass the heater (should it also be bypassing the filter?).

With all that said I am starting to wonder if I am better off digging up all the new patio stone on the one side near the pump and just put two 2" suction lines to serve the waterfall.

It's a tough call because in reality I probably will not use the waterfall all that often and they literally just finished all the work outside and it's going to be a PITA to dig it up
 
There can be a single MD lid of the proper design and be VGBA compliant. Can you puts a pic of what the MD looks like?
 

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Here is the manual for the MD - http://images.inyopools.com/cloud/documents/wg1030avpak2.pdf

Page 2 says:

To Reduce the risk of Entrapment Hazards - A minimum of two functioning suction outlets per pump must be installed. Suction outlets in the same plane (i.e. floor or wall), must be installed a minimum of three feet (3’) [.91 meter] apart, as measured from suction pipe center to suction pipe center. (See Diagram 1. If suction outlets are to be located closer then three feet (3’) [.91 meter] apart, they shall be located in different planes (i.e., one on the bottom, and one on the vertical wall, or one on each of two separate vertical walls.) (See Diagram 2) o Dual suction fittings shall be placed in such locations and distances to avoid “dual blockage” by a user.

Your MD is not installed according to national safety standards or the manufacturers recommendations.

Your pool builder is graduating from being incompetent to dangerous.
 
There should be 2 lids unless it's an elongated VGB compliant type.

Yes you can make the waterfalls work with a single VS at full speed. You wont have any control over flow you will only balance the flow with valves. Waterfalls need max flow to look good otherwise the water just kind of falls out. Depending how the waterfalls are setup that may be ok with you. If you split the lines the skimmer and drain would stay for sheers. The other skimmer would be for the pool. It's never easy to share input lines, it can be done but you should be fine
 
jimmythegreek said:
There should be 2 lids unless it's an elongated VGB compliant type.

Yes you can make the waterfalls work with a single VS at full speed. You wont have any control over flow you will only balance the flow with valves. Waterfalls need max flow to look good otherwise the water just kind of falls out. Depending how the waterfalls are setup that may be ok with you. If you split the lines the skimmer and drain would stay for sheers. The other skimmer would be for the pool. It's never easy to share input lines, it can be done but you should be fine
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I met with him and the other guy today

Total rework of the plumbing
Going to upsize the chlorine generator
Going to try to get a pump with SVRS or install something else to fix the single drain issue

Options:
1) VS pump - have a Jandy 3 way valve after the CV580 filter to bypass the heater to serve the waterfall.
2) Divert a skimmer and main drain to a waterfall pump to power the waterfalls

Likely leaning towards option 1, now just trying to source a pump in Canada
 
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