Pool Equipment overhaul

[Mr.Billyd]

I have a 15,500 gallon pool, with a 1.5 HP Whisperflow, Triton II Sand Filter, and 20 some year old plaster.
I will have the plaster chipped out soon and refinished in Pebble Tech of some sort.
I am adding a few waterfalls 2 - 12'' Scuper and 1 24 " scupper.
I am adding Autofill and a dedicated suction line.

All of my gear is moving 5 feet over to the side of the house so it cannot be seen.
My existing gear is going in the skip excluding the Triton II.
My return circles the perimeter and it's 1.5 inch with 4 locations
My current suction is 2'.

I wanted some opinion on my proposed gear I will install.
Thoughts at the moment.
Easytouch4 520593 that comes with SWG IC40
Screen Logic
IntelliBrite 5G 12v or 120., Are the Lumens the same? need to check
Intelliflo VS 011018 Pump.
2 Valve Actuators or IntelliValve?
On the Suction Side a 3way valve,. I would like to turn on and off the dedicated suction cleaner.
When it is on I would like to have some adjust-ability of having some amount of skimmer.
What is best valves to use?

On the output side I would like to have the ability for all of the return to go to waterfalls or a mixture of some heading to the perimeter returns.
The waterfall return will be plumbed with 2".
I was planning on having the SWG path to only the pool returns. Basically after the Automatic valve, so I always need some % of it going to the pool returns.

I am looking at going away from the Slide Backwash valve for the Triton II and go with something like 6 position style.

I think the ET 4 would work form my application.
1.Pump/Filter
2. Suction Side valve
3. Return side > Waterfall
4. Landscape lights or possibly Solar

I assume the LED light wouldn't use one of the relays. If it does then I probably need the 8.

I see pentair has the ET that comes with ScreenLogic 522355, but they don't have that combined with the SWG.

Please let me know if you think I need to adjust or tweak my plan.

Regards,
Bill

Oh, one more thing. My main house panel is 50 feet towards the front. What breaker do I need to feed this ET panel? I assume the breaker should be a GFI type?

 

[bdavis466]

Hi Bill,

The 12V 5G's will require a transformer which is an added expense. There isn't much difference between to two so I would opt for the 120V lights. Please be certain that this circuit is GFCI protected and the niche has a ground wire that runs to the pool light junction box.

The IntelliValve isn't that intelligent so don't waste your money on it - all it does is a 3 minute cam adjustment for you with a push of a button. In fact, I wouldn't even install an actuator on your suction valve, but rather use that money toward a robotic cleaner instead.

Use diverter style valves. Jandy and Pentair make quality valves that can be purchased from any pool supplier. Stay away from any sort of ball valve.

From you list above, you would be using 3 relays: Filter Pump, Intellibrite, and landscape lights. Solar and valves don't require relays, they use Feature Circuits.

For the one pump and a few accessories at the pad you should be fine with a 30A breaker at the main (non-GFI) and would need to install a 20A GFI breaker for the pump, a GFI circuit for the pool light, and a circuit to power the ET panel. A 50' run at 30A would require #8 stranded copper.

Pool electrical is not something to mess with if you aren't completely sure of what you are doing. The cost to hire a pro is nothing compared to what could happen if something isn't done correctly.

 

[Mr.Billyd]

Thanks for the tips Brian,
My my old 1980 system didn't have a GFI on the pump, but my light and 120v accessory plug in has a GFI.
The reason why I wanted to valve the suction line was, I want the option to automate how long the pool cleaner would run.
In AZ, when the summer is in full swing I need longer run times for the SWG to run.
In my old system, this would just put extra wear on my cleaner.
With the 12v 5G, is the transformer located in the ET?
Regards,
Bill

 

[mknauss]

Sounds like an extensive project.

As a long time pool owner I suspect you know that the waterfalls etc being installed will aerate your water. Which will push up pH. I assume your water is Colorado River water with high TA and CH. So running the water features for short time every once in a while can be managed, but not continuously.

You are right on your SWCG run times. Luckily with the VS pump, you can run the system typically at low rates and thus less electrical consumption. You could go to an IC60. That is an economic decision.

Many here on the forum are abandoning their suction/pressure side cleaners and going to Robots. You run them when you need them, they do not need the pump to run, and do not load your filter, etc with the solids. Up to you.

The transformer for your lights is not located in the ET. It will be a separate box. The power supply for your SWCG will be in your ET if you purchase the appropriate ET.

Hopefully you have a proper test kit and follow TFPC protocols. Makes life much easier here in the desert.

Take care.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Bill,

None of the EasyTouch units come with an internal lighting transformer.. It will have to be mounted external if you plan to go with low voltage lighting.

P/N 520593 will work fine, but here is another option that comes with two valve actuators... Pentair Easy Touch Control System 520543 | Pentair 520543

As Brian points out.. do not get the IntelliValve...

I too would recommend a robot cleaner over your current suction side cleaner.. see this thread for more info... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjUt52spfPYAhUE4oMKHc0bDYAQFgg2MAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.troublefreepool.com%2Fthreads%2F120447-Doheny-s-Discovery-S200-Active20-Triton-owners-club&usg=AOvVaw35cFjdsfGNUS1pItB66-7m

But the ET can easily be set up to control a suction side port if that is what you want.

I would run all your return water through the Salt cell (IC40) and then back to your pool.. To chlorinate your pool, you will have to run the main pump a relatively long time, so in my opinion, anytime the pump is running you should be generating chlorine.

Waterfalls are very pretty, but you will soon find that if you continually run them, that your pH will drastically increase. Once you get over the initial "thrill" it would be best to only run them just when you want them and not all the time.

I have the ET4 and have worn out a pair of shoes kicking myself for not getting the ET8. I keep finding additional things that I want to control using the ET4 but can't, due to running out of relays.

With the ET4, you will use the Pump/Filter relay to power your internal salt system power transformer. You will need one relay to control your pool light, one relay for your Landscape lighting, which leaves you with one open relay. I would recommend that you use that relay to turn an equipment pad light on/off.

Do NOT buy one of the "Lite" versions of the EasyTouch, such as the 522355.. it does not have a load center for your circuit breakers, it does not have the internal salt system power supply, and is very limited in the number of functions it can support. Just like anything with the name "Lite", it just does not taste right..

The IntelliFlo 011018, is a great pump, you will love it..

I like the idea of a multiport valve over the push/pull that you currently have.

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

 

[Mr.Billyd]

Thanks for the Feedback Jim,
I am not sure the ET 5200543 is worth $400 more than the 520593? Like are the actuators $200 a piece?
To step up to the IC60 which I could use in AZ, is nearly $1800. If I don't need the 4 extra features, maybe smarter to get the 520593 and when the IC40 burns up pony up for the IC60 at that point, as it's a 150 more.
When people kick themselves in the a__ for not getting the ET 8, could you not add an extra relay to the ET4? or are you hosed?
What are some ideas for the extra Relays? I'm sure I haven't thought of all of them.
Maybe Flood lights, Misting system, ..... I like the Pump pad light Idea> didn't think of that. Do you run the Robot through the ET?

This thread has me thinking about dropping the dedicated suction line. I have one contractor putting that cost at $450. That's just getting it to the imaginary valve. Then add in 400 for The Pool Cleaner and the valve and actuator...... So, Started researching robots, and that's a head wrecker. I found a link The Truth About Pool Cleaners: What Your Pool Store Isn’t Telling You | Sunplay
I will focus on this after I get the pool recommissioned.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Bill,

You can't upgrade from an ET 4 to an ET 8 by just adding relays... If you could that is what everyone would do.

My Robot plugs into a GFCI outlet on the side of my EasyTouch, but just to get electrical power. The Robot is not controlled by the ET at all.

I believe it is a always a good idea to install a dedicated suction line whether you plan to have a Robot or not. Once the pool is built it can be pretty difficult to do.

"Most" people here, that have changed from a water powered cleaner to a Robot are all smiles. But not all. My guess is that about 5 or 10% did not like their Robots and decided to go back to their water powered systems.

Deciding between a Robot and a water powered cleaner has a lot to do with the way you want your pool to operate.

I believe it has a lot to do with your relationship with your pool... If you love your pool and treat it more like a pet, or a member of the family... then a Robot is for you. If you think of your pool as work, then maybe a pump powered cleaner is better for you...

Water powered cleaners tend to stay in the pool forever.. they can be scheduled by your automation.. but to work, they require the pool pump to be running... And in my opinion makes your pool look like it is wearing curlers and no make up...

A Robot has to be looked after a couple of times a week. You have to take the Robot out of the pool to clean its filters.. As a general rule I would say that Robots are used like a carpet vacuum cleaners... you use them when you want, and put them away when you are not using them.

While I love my robot, don't let us talk you into something that does not fit your lifestyle.

Having only four ET relays is not a major issue, but I do keep finding little things that I wish I could control from the ET.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Mr.Billyd]

just a quick FYI, I was on HOuZZ, Additional Relays For Pentair Easytouch Controller.

They are talking about making a ET 4 a ET5. For 42 $$$$.
But most of you Experts probably Know this.
-Bill

 

[bdavis466]

just a quick FYI, I was on HOuZZ, Additional Relays For Pentair Easytouch Controller.

They are talking about making a ET 4 a ET5. For 42 $$$$.
But most of you Experts probably Know this.
-Bill

You can use the Aux Extra (Solar) socket to do this. I believe the relays can be had for even less than that... I've seen them for $30.

 

[Mr.Billyd]

Hello Brian,
My ET 520543 will arrive on Monday. I need to read up on it.
It this point I am assuming a standard 15amp breaker would suffice to power the ET.
I just had the thought of tapping into that breaker and feeding it to a Security light above the Equipment Pad, rather than using a relay for lighting.
What are your thoughts on that?
-Bill

 

[Jimrahbe]

Billy,

I would think that the minimum circuit size that you would want to power your ET would be 30 amps...

You need enough current to run your IntelliFlo pump, the ET itself, the SWCG system, pool light, plus any external things that you might want to control, like a booster pump, or landscape lighting, etc...

Just so that we are both on the same page... the ET has a load center where you feed in power from the house main circuit breaker panel... From this load center, you add circuit breakers that power your pump, and all the other equipment you plan to be running.

Here is a Pic of the inside of an ET.. There is extra stuff in this one, but it gives you the basic idea...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Mr.Billyd]

Hello Jim,
Nice Pic. From the looks of it , I see 1 220v GFI breakers, 2 120v Gfi breakers, 1 15amp Non GFI, and 3 unused standard breakers.
Is the big guy on the bottom left? Is that a surge protector? Are people putting the surge protection in the ET Sub panel or in the Main?

My current Plan.
30A breaker at the main (non-GFI). 2> #8 stranded copper, Ground and Neutral> 50Ft.
20A GFI 220v breaker for the pump,
15A GFI circuit for the pool light
15A or 20A GFI circuit Landscape lights.
15A GFI or Standard To power ET, and Security light above Equipment Pad.
20A GFi, for outdoor socket > for Robot and various other items

-Bill

 

[Jimrahbe]

Billy,

Your list works for me...

Yes, that item in the bottom left is a surge protector. The closer to the equipment you are trying to protect, the better.

I see that I just misread your initial post... I can't see anything wrong with powering the ET and Security light from the same Circuit Breaker..

To save a breaker space, a lot of installers just add a GFCI receptacle to the ET (Lower right) and use it for both the pool light GFCI circuit and to power a robot or whatever is plugged in..

I have more CB's than needed because I wanted the ability to independent turn things off.. For example.. I can shut off my SWCG without effecting anything else, etc...

The one thing you must make sure you do, is to route the power that goes to the internal SWCG power transformer through the Pump/Filter relay.. this ensures that the SWCG only gets power when the pump is running. Also, the power for the IntelliFlo should go from the GFCI breaker directly to the pump.. it does not pass through any relays...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[bdavis466]

The breaker that powers the ET does not need to be a GFI unless you are going to also use it to power something external like a light.

 

[Mr.Billyd]

HEllo Jim,
Did you wire your 220 GFI breaker to the line side of the Pump relay.
Then wire the Intelliflow pump to the line side as well??
Then wire the SCG transformer to the load side.

Simply using the line side of the Relay as a connection point?

-Bill

 

[bdavis466]

HEllo Jim,
Did you wire your 220 GFI breaker to the line side of the Pump relay.
Then wire the Intelliflow pump to the line side as well??
Then wire the SCG transformer to the load side.

Simply using the line side of the Relay as a connection point?

-Bill

I'm not Jim and I'm only half as good looking but he authorized me to comment on this.

You are correct with your plan above. That is exactly how it should be done.

 

[Jimrahbe]

I'm not Jim and I'm only half as good looking but he authorized me to comment on this.

You are correct with your plan above. That is exactly how it should be done.

OH!!! if that were only half true I would be overjoyed....


Jim R.