Pool bonding question - all resin pool

[eyedoc_01]

Hi all,

Is what we have here safe? My question is about how much of the bonding wire needs to be in contact with the ground, and also why it needs to go all the way around the pool. As the pictures show, the wire is only touching ground where I have dirt piled up. The wire does travel about three feet underground as it goes to the pump (to the left of picture 1).

So the electricians came out today. I was not able to be there and they screwed the bonding wire into the uprights all around the pool. For some reason I was expecting the bonding wire to be 4" below grade and a foot out from the pool, since it a resin pool doesn't need to have point of connection as I understand it. As you may notice, they did leave a length of wire at the end of the loop for me to connect to the water bonding kit that goes on the bottom of the skimmer.

Anyway I had some dirt up against the pool walls since I am going to make a slight slope away from the pool for drainage. However they expected that I would backfill up to the level of the wire. I was going to backfill, but was only planning on a level about height of the bottom rails (and then put landscape fabric on top, then gravel. The wire is several inches higher than the bottom rails.

So to recap, is this safe as is or does the wire need to be in contact with the ground all the way around? I am not sure how high I really want to backfill and slope the ground away, but is there a disadvantage to having them move the wire lower?

Thanks

 

[AJ.A]

I don't think that is the correct way to bond a pool. The wire needs to be buried below grade 4 to 6 inches and 18 inches away from the inside of the pool. I don't know about all resin pools as they may be a different requirement. I would contact your local building department for the specific code specifications. Here is a good video showing how it should look.

 

[Teald024]

The bonding wire needs to be buried 4 to 6 inches below grade and 18 inches away from the inside of the pool. From the way it looks in the picture, the bond wire is attached directly to the posts and not 18" away from the wall.

Have a read through this article and this article.

 

[eyedoc_01]

Can any code gurus clarify what constitutes a permanent pool vs. a storable? It's an all-resin 54" high pool, which we are not partially burying. Since the max depth is over 42" does that automatically make it a permanent pool?

I think the electrician has never been asked to bury the wire 18-24" away from pool wall and 4-6" deep before. They weren't familiar with what to do with an all resin pool, also, so now I am going to have holes in the bottom of all my uprights.

 

[Mdragger88]

You have a permanent pool

 

[eyedoc_01]

Thanks! Just checking. I couldn't see how our big grey monstrosity could be classified as a storable or temporary pool but wanted to check that section II of 680 applied.

As we went round and round the NEC, he kept saying that it was OK the way it was, inspectors have never called it out, etc. I kept asking if it was reasonable to ask a licensed electrician to do work according to code. He never specifically answered that question. They did good work otherwise, put in an extra outlet by the main panel, put in a heavier gauge wire and beefier subpanel in the garage, etc. Happy with everything but the bonding issue.

I should have been more concerned when they had never heard of water bonding and kept saying that my pump would water bond since it contacts water. Does a Hayward Matrix pump typically bond water, or is the water only in contact with PVC pipe and not metal? I bought a water bonding T that goes under the skimmer for that since it wasn't in the bid anyway.

Also I thought in the instructions that my Saltron Retro Jet had a bonding lug on the inside to be connected to the bonding loop but the electrician kept saying that the grounding wire on the three prong cord would serve to bond also. Is that right or do I need to bond the SWG power supply to the bonding loop also?

 

[sammckin]

Thanks! Just checking. I couldn't see how our big grey monstrosity could be classified as a storable or temporary pool but wanted to check that section II of 680 applied.

As we went round and round the NEC, he kept saying that it was OK the way it was, inspectors have never called it out, etc. I kept asking if it was reasonable to ask a licensed electrician to do work according to code. He never specifically answered that question. They did good work otherwise, put in an extra outlet by the main panel, put in a heavier gauge wire and beefier subpanel in the garage, etc. Happy with everything but the bonding issue.

I should have been more concerned when they had never heard of water bonding and kept saying that my pump would water bond since it contacts water. Does a Hayward Matrix pump typically bond water, or is the water only in contact with PVC pipe and not metal? I bought a water bonding T that goes under the skimmer for that since it wasn't in the bid anyway.

Also I thought in the instructions that my Saltron Retro Jet had a bonding lug on the inside to be connected to the bonding loop but the electrician kept saying that the grounding wire on the three prong cord would serve to bond also. Is that right or do I need to bond the SWG power supply to the bonding loop also?

Pump, swg and water are all separate bonding points. The pump doesn't bond the water, thats what your fitting is for. Some have a Waterburg kit that goes in the skimmer to bond water. I have a bonding plate that sits in below the leaf basket in the pump and exits via the drain plug to bond my water.

 

[Mdragger88]

The water will be bonded with the t for your skimmer. The pump motor bond should be a lug underneath the back of the pump - grounding & bonding are not the same. If you paid him to bond the perimeter of your pool he needs to come back & do it properly like the video above. It looks like he screwed the connections to your resin rails! If he is with a company I would ask for someone else that understands how electricity & equipotential bonding works. Again the bonding system is separate from the grounding system except for in a couple special situations.

 

[Bosley]

We installed our resin pool last spring. The uprights are all resin so you do not need to attach the bonding wire to them. We only had to attach from the wall seam to the pump, the to the inline T to bond the water, then to the heater then to the control panel. I suppose every jurisdiction has different rules but that's how ours was done and passed inspection

 

[eyedoc_01]

Yes Mdragger88 he screwed the copper connections into my uprights FWIW he is the son of the guy who owns the company who kept telling me everything is fine the way it is, was not familiar with water bonding, etc. I'm beginning to think that as he is older his info is out of date, not that that's an excuse.

This does raise the question of whether the wall seam should be bonded on an all resin pool. It doesn't contact the ground, or the water, and it's hidden behind an upright and inside the "bonding halo". Thoughts?

Bosley, I understand about passing inspection, but not all things that pass inspection are as safe as they could be. And I like safe. So another question to all: what's the purpose of the "bonding halo" around the entire perimeter of the pool? To prevent any stray current from finding its way in?

 

[kellyfair]

OMG. I am so sorry. I know you must be furious that he drilled into your uprights.

Honestly, I’d find someone else who knows what they are doing, and demand a refund from this guy.

 

[AJ.A]

I don't think you need to bond the uprights of your resin pool. If there is no conductive surface (uprights, wall, bottom rail, etc) then I would just bond the water (skimmer) and be done with it. I am reading the NEC code from 2014 (680.26) for "Perimeter Surfaces" and the code talks about bonding at a minimum of 4 points for a conductive surface but the last sentence reads "For nonconductive pool shells, bonding at four points shall not be required."

I agree with others - your electrician has no idea what bonding is - it is nothing to do with grounding and I would find another electrician or contact your local building department to see what their requirements are when they do the inspection. They should be more than happy to explain what needs to be done.

 

[Teald024]

So another question to all: what's the purpose of the "bonding halo" around the entire perimeter of the pool? To prevent any stray current from finding its way in?

To make everything the same voltage. Read through this thread.

 

[AJ.A]

This does raise the question of whether the wall seam should be bonded on an all resin pool. It doesn't contact the ground, or the water, and it's hidden behind an upright and inside the "bonding halo". Thoughts?

In the NEC code 680.26(B)(5) Metal Fittings. All metal fittings within or attached to the pool structure shall be bonded. Isolated parts that are not over 100 mm (4 in.) in any dimension and do not penetrate into the pool structure more than 25 mm (1 in.) shall not require bonding.

 

[eyedoc_01]

Thanks teal. And yes Kelly, I'm not happy about having my uprights drilled into.

AJ.A. to clarify since the metal wall seams (one one inside, one on the outside, connected with many metal nuts and bolts) are within the pool and outside the pool wall, as well as 54" tall, then they need to be bonded, correct?

 

[AJ.A]

AJ.A. to clarify since the metal wall seams (one one inside, one on the outside, connected with many metal nuts and bolts) are within the pool and outside the pool wall, as well as 54" tall, then they need to be bonded, correct?

Disclaimer - I am not an electrician or a code enforcer - I am just reading the code and work with someone that knows electrical code very well. If it was me - i would just throw a bonding lug on one of the bolts as you are bonding the rest of your equipment. I don't think it would hurt anything and sounds like it is needed reading the code. I swear they make the electrical code so hard to understand for your DIY'er

Here is an old post on here that talks about a resin pool and bonding. How to bond a resin pool?

 

[jcp]

My resin pool is bonded one place, at the seam. I put a lug under one of the bolts. I did drill a hole through the upright for the wire to exit, looked like the best way to accomplish what I wanted. Of course all the other necessary equipment and water are tied to the bond loop as well. From a safety perspective it probably doesn’t matter if your bond loop is where they located it, or slightly below the surface 18” away as long as everything is tied together. However bonding the resin uprights isn’t accomplishing anything and the steel wall is what should be bonded. Aesthetically speaking I would get the bond loop off the pool and on the ground in the dirt where it should be, that will also get you in line with code requirements. I have seen it debated whether the wall itself should be bonded in 4 places on a resin structure pool. I’m on the side that says the wall is one continuous piece and there’s no way I would add holes for additional bonds, I personally thinks that’s pretty obviously unnecessary. The “halo” serves as the bonding grid essentially and is there to tap the bonds to.

 

[jcp]

My bond loop going in getting buried under the crushed rock base by my #1 helper.

Near my equipment pad after the pool was in, I dug down to the bonding loop and tied everything in.

 

[kellyfair]

@jcp, I remain seriously jealous of your base. It’s a thing of beauty.

 

[eyedoc_01]

JCP looks nice! Here is the electrician's response to our phone call. I wrote a lengthy response asking for clarification on pretty much everything he said, starting with the fact that he needed to check and double check how to bond a pool since he clearly had no idea what he was doing. Also asked that he dig the trench to install the bonding ring correctly or else give me a partial refund of about 1/3rd of the cost, and moving on to the fact that my pool doesn't have bolts like he keeps talking about, etc.


After our conversation this morning, I have checked and double checked.

The metal bolts in the assembly of the pool should have been part of the bonding
(these bolts were covered below earth/not visible)

I do not have anything in the contract for digging or excavation.

The grounding bond should be done as follows;

The metal bolts should be uncovered and ground lug installed.

The grounding loop needs at least four points or more to bolts.

All rings should be dug 12 to 18 inch from pool liner and ground wire placed in same.

Note no deeper that 6 inches from finish grade.

This is all based at the time of inspection.

My job was to provide a grounding ring and make electrical connection.

I did not put your pool together and we provided a ground ring strapped to each structural member.

The job has an integrated permit (including electric) from St. Louis County and they have the final say on what is code compliant.

I am willing to install the grounding lugs to metal bolts but they must be uncovered for access, we will also place the existing grounding/bonding ring in trench you provide.

Do not cover the grounding ring as it must be exposed for inspection.