Polyfill use during AA treatment

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AndyTN

AndyTN

Bronze Supporter
Mar 27, 2019
463
Memphis
Pool Size
26000
Surface
Vinyl
I have had staining issues pretty much every year of the 5 years I have owned the pool. These stains are tannins from all my oak trees, iron, and copper stains. I normally start off the season when water is still cold with an ascorbic acid treatment and I am about to do it again. This will be my first time trying the trick of putting polyfill into the skimmer to absorb the metals instead of doing a partial drain plus metal sequestrant.

How many days should I leave the polyfill in the skimmer? Should I replace with new polyfill every couple days since it is so cheap? I am also worried about stuffing too much into the skimmer and cutting off the suction so is there any rule on quantity? Since I will have so much Crud falling from my trees over the next month, I keep my black tarp over my pool even while running the pump a few hours per day so I'm not worried about debris.
 
AA will lift iron stains, not copper.

Where do you think your iron and copper are coming from? Iron you can get from fill water but you should nto be getting coper in your pool. Polyfill will capture soluble iron but not copper,

Have you read...

If you’ve got iron in your fill water, use Polyfill to remove it

EDIT: Found out this method only works if your iron is oxidized already, meaning it’s got a dull or bright green tint to the water, or a nasty brown tint. If you know you have iron in your fill water, but it isn’t oxidized yet, bring your pool to shock level and it’ll turn the telltale green...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Money pit is poop brown

Please bear with me I am new to this as I bought a home with an older pool last fall and it was closed when we moved in. I had seen the pool open prior to our purchase and it was beautiful. I hired a pool company to open it in the spring and followed their directions and ended up with a...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Iron Fill Water Filter - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Copper in Pool Water - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Ascorbic Acid Treatment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
ajw22 said:
AA will lift iron stains, not copper.

Where do you think your iron and copper are coming from? Iron you can get from fill water but you should nto be getting coper in your pool. Polyfill will capture soluble iron but not copper,
Click to expand...

I haven't had any copper in the water the past few years. This was a problem when I first bought the house and the first 2 years which I think is just due to previous owners' use of products with copper. I assume the iron is coming from city water but tannin stains are my biggest problem. I know the AA will only remove iron but I was describing the other two types of stains as the reason I am in the habit of doing an AA treatment every March.

I want to do the AA treatment with polyfill first and then attack the tannins with chlorine. My old liner would get very brown and I had a new liner installed 2 years ago so the brown haze is barely noticeable but it is just annoying since I have a brand new liner.
 
mguzzy said:
Bump... So were you successful in using the polyfill after the AA treatment instead of using a sequestrant?
Click to expand...
Yes, I currently have no signs of staining but they will reappear slightly by the end of the summer. I am never able to rid myself completely of iron stains, just keep them under control. My main success has always been a substantial water exchange immediately after AA treatment since my water is cheap but my fill water is the source of the iron. I did a 100% water exchange this year and have kept the skimmer with a handful of polyfil, changing out each week. No use of sequestrant since I want to allow the iron to precipitate to the polyfil. We will see how much it worked come August/September.
 
What I am trying to figure out is if you have had success with using Polyfill to filter out the iron AFTER doing an AA treatment. I have not found any documentation that this would or would not work. And your post is the closest thing to doing that.
I'm trying to figure out my own iron issue and was wondering if your solution could be applied to mine.. I put some AA on my filter so see if the stains on it were Iron and they were. After I put my filters back in my pool turned green the next day.. I was able to get it to filter out with Polyfill but I'm left to wonder what pulled the iron out of solution was it the trace AA still on the filters, was it a small acid dose, was it my SWG passing some threshold. Anyway, you seem be doing this as a regular protocol to manage your well water, and I thought I would ask.
Whatcha think? @ajw22 , @JoyfulNoise, @duraleigh
 
mguzzy said:
What I am trying to figure out is if you have had success with using Polyfill to filter out the iron AFTER doing an AA treatment. I have not found any documentation that this would or would not work. And your post is the closest thing to doing that.
Click to expand...

There are better threads on TFP, several at the top of this post, which document the use of polyfil for iron stains. I have very cheap city water so I have just found it to be a lot easier to do a major water exchange immediately after AA treatment to get the most improvement the fastest. The polyfil takes time and I the iron must be allowed to precipitate to it, which can also precipitate to your surfaces again. The iron precipitating in your filter is just likely the result of so much water passing through it daily.

I have also had iron stains come back even stronger right after AA treatment due to the iron being released from my pipes and filter. This is what prompted me to start just doing a water exchange to significantly dilute the iron content before adding back FC. Below is a picture from the inside of one of my returns which you can see how much iron can build up over 30 years. My advise is if you have fairly cheap water, exchange at least 75% of the water before even starting with the polyfil. I also do this in early spring each year to keep my winter tarp on the pool to allow for low FC levels for a month.

1593597931396.png
 
Here is another post which someone was spending a lot of money to try to get rid of iron stains. This may be worth reading to help your situation.

Yellow stains on liner

I have read some other posts pertaining to this, but still a bit confused on what to do. I have a bunch of yellow staining on my pool liner. It looks a lot like it would if you had mustard algae but when you brush, it doesn't come off. I have been SLAM'ing for the past 10 days or so, and the...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
I have only skimmed this thread but it seems to me that AA puts the iron back into solution (not visible) thereby making it impossible for polyfill to filter it out.

Polyfill is to filter out visible iron. AA is to lift the stain but it does not remove the iron it makes it (invisible) soluble.
 
duraleigh said:
I have only skimmed this thread but it seems to me that AA puts the iron back into solution (not visible) thereby making it impossible for polyfill to filter it out.

Polyfill is to filter out visible iron. AA is to lift the stain but it does not remove the iron it makes it (invisible) soluble.
Click to expand...
Thanks Dave. I have been trying figure out if an AA treatment just locks up the iron in solution or makes it available for oxidation so it can be filtered. I have read all the threads that @AndyTN suggested and then some, but none of them say what form the Iron becomes after an AA treatment. Come fall I will experiment with it when no one wants to swim and I have the rains for dilution. I may follow Andy's advice and just replace the water at that time. Unlike Andy I am pretty sure the source of Iron was not from my water service but was from contaminated salt.
 

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mguzzy said:
I have been trying figure out if an AA treatment just locks up the iron in solution or makes it available for oxidation so it can be filtered.
Click to expand...

The iron cannot be filtered out with something like polyfil because the microns are too small and just pass through. It has to precipitate to the many micro surfaces of the polyfil just like it would precipitate to your pool surfaces. The polyfil in your skimmer is going to have a much faster flow of water over it than the surfaces of your pool but if it is precipitating to the polyfil, you can expect it to precipitate to your pool surfaces under the same chemical conditions. This is why it is common to have to do AA treatments multiple times because you are releasing the iron and diluting it each time.
 
AndyTN said:
The iron cannot be filtered out with something like polyfil because the microns are too small and just pass through. It has to precipitate to the many micro surfaces of the polyfil just like it would precipitate to your pool surfaces. The polyfil in your skimmer is going to have a much faster flow of water over it than the surfaces of your pool but if it is precipitating to the polyfil, you can expect it to precipitate to your pool surfaces under the same chemical conditions. This is why it is common to have to do AA treatments multiple times because you are releasing the iron and diluting it each time.
Click to expand...

With the iron in solution by adding ascorbic acid, will the Curator packs in the skimmer basket and pump basket be effective in removing the iron from the water?
 
AndyTN said:
The iron cannot be filtered out with something like polyfil because the microns are too small and just pass through. It has to precipitate to the many micro surfaces of the polyfil just like it would precipitate to your pool surfaces. The polyfil in your skimmer is going to have a much faster flow of water over it than the surfaces of your pool but if it is precipitating to the polyfil, you can expect it to precipitate to your pool surfaces under the same chemical conditions. This is why it is common to have to do AA treatments multiple times because you are releasing the iron and diluting it each time.
Click to expand...

mkubiniec said:
With the iron in solution by adding ascorbic acid, will the Curator packs in the skimmer basket and pump basket be effective in removing the iron from the water?
Click to expand...

Also, when you refer to polyfil, are you referring to white fluffy stuff like what is used in stuffing pillows?
 
The main thing is surface area with the polyfil strands. With a high flow of water, the numerous micro surfaces allow the iron to precipitate. My skimmer basket is always the first thing to show iron stains each year. My fiberglass steps and plastic surfaces on my Polaris are the 2nd things to show stains since the surfaces are not smooth at the micro level therefore they have more surface area.

Also, the skimmer basket, steps, and Polaris are all white which makes the iron stains more noticeable than my blue liner. Not that the color of the polyfil has anything to do with pulling iron out of the water.

I am going to do an AA treatment prior to closing for the season and will do it again at opening in spring. The multiple AA treatments per year has helped me mitigate the stains. My stains this year are less than previous seasons at end of summer so I would say the small amount of polyfil in the skimmer at all times has helped. I changed it out once per week.
 
No clue about temp making any difference. Ph level will make a big difference as the iron has to precipitate out of the water. The only problem is a high pH will make it precipitate faster and increases the likelihood of staining on pool surfaces. The flow rate through the polyfil seems to be an important factor because you want a moderate pH to allow it to slowly precipitate to the polyfil. A pH too low won't allow the iron to precipitate and a pH too high will cause it to precipitate to pool surfaces giving you staining again.
 
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