Plumbing Schematic Review - Help?

[Brant]

The acid strips the coating on the cell plates and when the coating is gone, the cell is dead.

I did what I was told by Pentair and the PB for years and my 1st cell spent 3.5 hours soaking in straight Muriatic Acid over its lifespan. No kidding it was a shorter one than it should have been.

The kicker is I never had a need to clean it. It was always spotless. We have less harsh ways to go about it if the need ever arises.

Good info. After I sent that message, I read the SWG How it works page on here. Super informative!

 

[Newdude]

The more I read on this forum, the more questions I have.

Welcome to the rabbit hole !! And you're officially one of us.

I assume these get plumbed just below the waterline?

Yup

Pipe size, fitting type, placement?

2 inch pipe, vac hose fitting, in the middle of the long wall to allow a shorter hose.

Is the suction just tee'd into the upstream side of the pump suction and pressure line is tee'd in downstream of the filter?

Exactly that. Usually folks get one or the other, not both. Once you have the pipe at the pad, it could always be converted later.

Personally I'd go with a suction side cleaner if not using a robot. They suck through the filter for fine cleaning. The pressure cleaners use an external bag to catch debris and it's not as good with fine particles IMO. And pressure cleaners need a booster pump for more flow so there's added expense upfront and for long term usage.

I assume I would need to add divert valves on these lines?

You would.

The suction line seems obvious. You would hook a vacuum hose to it, right?

You would.

What is the purpose of the pressure line???

Same basic fitting, same vac hose, and a cleaner that works with the opposite flow direction.

They have both versions in handheld vacs too. The DC vacs use suction and there are also ones that use a garden hose to swoosh up debris and push it through a filter bag.

I read the SWG How it works page on here. Super informative!

The wiki is LOADED with goodies. If you have a pool related thought, there's probably something related to it in the Wiki.

 

[Brant]

Welcome to the rabbit hole !! And you're officially one of us.



Yup

2 inch pipe, vac hose fitting, in the middle of the long wall to allow a shorter hose.

Exactly that. Usually folks get one or the other, not both. Once you have the pipe at the pad, it could always be converted later.

Personally I'd go with a suction side cleaner if not using a robot. They suck through the filter for fine cleaning. The pressure cleaners use an external bag to catch debris and it's not as good with fine particles IMO. And pressure cleaners need a booster pump for more flow so there's added expense upfront and for long term usage.

You would.

You would.

Same basic fitting, same vac hose, and a cleaner that works with the opposite flow direction.

They have both versions in handheld vacs too. The DC vacs use suction and there are also ones that use a garden hose to swoosh up debris and push it through a filter bag.

The wiki is LOADED with goodies. If you have a pool related thought, there's probably something related to it in the Wiki.

Thank you very much for answering these questions!

 

[pjt]

A few people that sell pool equipment. But most recently, a specialist at Leslies Pools. She sounded very knowledgeable.

Again, misinformation from well intentioned folks.

I also live in an area with extremely hard water. Should this influence my decision between SWCG vs LC?

Do you have access to a recommended test kit to measure your fill water TA and CH? Hard water doesn't affect chlorination method (SWCG vs. LC).

 

[Brant]

Again, misinformation from well intentioned folks.


Do you have access to a recommended test kit to measure your fill water TA and CH? Hard water doesn't affect chlorination method (SWCG vs. LC).

I assume that I can purchase a kit. I'll look into it.

Is this something that Leslie's Pool can/will do if I ask nicely?

 

[markdpratt]

I also live in an area with extremely hard water. I'm on well water in the TX hill country and our water is about as hard as water comes out of the ground. It's pretty insane. Should this influence my decision between SWCG vs LC?

I hear you on the hard water - we used to live in Boerne. Due to your very hard water, you will most likely have a water softener on your house. I would suggest you find a way to plumb softened water to your pool water make-up line to help manage the water hardness over time.

Good luck.

 

[Newdude]

I assume that I can purchase a kit. I'll look into it.

Lemme save you the trouble.


Tldr: TF100, TFpro (both available in salt versioms) are the hands down winners from TFtestkits.net. they're guaranteed fresh and the owner is available here and always steps in immediately to right any wrongs.


So the test kits fall into 2 price points.

K2006 : too small
TF100 : 2.7X the supplies
-------------------------------
K2006*C* : too much TA, CH and not enough FC, CYA

TFpro : sized better for how we do things
*fancy case
*includes $48 stirring device

Either tftestkits.net option is hands down a better value than the Taylor option. Both kits were created with our way of doing things in mind, from Taylor supplies.

Either TF kit can be bought in a salt version which adds the $30 salt kit for $20, making them even better deals versus the Taylor equivalent, plus a K1766 salt kit.

 

[HermanTX]

I also live in an area with extremely hard water. I'm on well water in the TX hill country and our water is about as hard as water comes out of the ground. It's pretty insane. Should this influence my decision between SWCG vs LC?

Hard water is not related to FC effectiveness. So either SWCG or LC is fine.
Many people in AZ or similar areas have hard water which causes high CH when testing.

One item we have not talked about is the PoolMath app. It is a handy tool to track all your test data, help you set up the SWCG based on your pump run time and FC requirements and a host of other features. It is $8 annually.
Once you test your water, the data is put into the app and it calculates a CSI.

CSI and LSI - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

The TFP method targets a CSI of -0.3 to +0.3. The app calculates this. So CH, pH, TA, Salt, CYA, water temperature all influences the CSI calculations so you can adjust one to compensate for the others to achieve the target range of CSI. Many pool owners manage their pool within the CSI range while having CH up to 500 or 600ppm. Do you know the CH of your well water now?

There is one option such as a whole house water softener. I have one and my outside tap to my pool fill use softened water, so I actually have to add CH or I run a separate hose that is hooked in before my water softener to add hard water. It is a balancing act that you will learn over time. Another option is some other pool owners have used a RV water softener which just is hooked to the pool fill line.

Since you are on well water, it is suggested you test your water for iron. A standard test kit cannot do that, but Leslie's has the capability to do a basic test. The other is to send a sample to a proper lab. Iron can cause staining so best to understand that now before you fill.

Iron Fill Water Filter - Further Reading

 

[Brant]

So it was recommended on here to install a heater bypass kit so I'm flowing around my heater instead of through my heater when in normal pool mode, It looks like the Pentair bypass kit is just a 3-way actuated diverter valve on the upstream side of the heater and a check valve just downstream of the heater. I see on the user manual that the Pentair kit comes with a 2" automated valve and 2" check valve.

Since my spa jets will flow around 100 to 110 gpm I intended to use 2.5" piping (2" piping only provides 84 gpm at 8 FPS). Since this kit is only supplied in 2", can I just install my own 2.5" 3-way automated diverter valve and 2.5" check valve and wire the valve actuator into the control panel the same way as I would the kit's 2" automated valve?

I believe this would work but is there something that I'm missing???

 

[ajw22]

Yes, you can use 2.5” diverter valves instead of 2”. The actuator stays the same.

You don’t want 100 GPM flowing through a heater as it will erode the heat exchanger.

Most heaters have a maximum flow rate of around 70 GPM.

A heater flow bypass valve can be installed so the maximum flow rate is not exceeded when you have a powerful pump. Here is one from Aquacal…

 

[Brant]

Yes, you can use 2.5” diverter valves instead of 2”. The actuator stays the same.

You don’t want 100 GPM flowing through a heater as it will erode the heat exchanger.

Most heaters have a maximum flow rate of around 70 GPM.

A heater flow bypass valve can be installed so the maximum flow rate is not exceeded when you have a powerful pump. Here is one from Aquacal…

So that works based on backpressure on the system by trying to flow too much water into the heater? Where would that be plumbed into the piping? Upstream or downstream of the automated bypass valve?

 

[Brant]

Also, I guess all the bigger spas have multiple heaters? Is that how they get around the flow rate restrictions?

 

[Brant]

Yes, you can use 2.5” diverter valves instead of 2”. The actuator stays the same.

You don’t want 100 GPM flowing through a heater as it will erode the heat exchanger.

Most heaters have a maximum flow rate of around 70 GPM.

A heater flow bypass valve can be installed so the maximum flow rate is not exceeded when you have a powerful pump. Here is one from Aquacal…

is the way i have it drawn in on my plan correct?

 

[ajw22]

So that works based on backpressure on the system by trying to flow too much water into the heater?

It has a spring loaded valve that opens to bypass when the water pressure is high.

Where would that be plumbed into the piping? Upstream or downstream of the automated bypass valve?

Between the automated bypass and the heater. You only want the flow bypass in the loop when the heater is in the loop.

 

[ajw22]

Also, I guess all the bigger spas have multiple heaters? Is that how they get around the flow rate restrictions?

Bigger spas in number of jets or water volume?

All depends on the setup.

Heater sizing is a function of water volume in the spa and not flow rates.

 

[ajw22]

is the way i have it drawn in on my plan correct?

Move the Check Valve to the other side of the Aquacal flow bypass.

 

[Brant]

Bigger spas in number of jets or water volume?

All depends on the setup.

Heater sizing is a function of water volume in the spa and not flow rates.

OK, gotcha now. you can have sufficient flow to feed as many jets as you want but the bypass "spring check" valve will bypass excess flow around the heater so it does not get erroded. that makes sense.

 

[Brant]

Move the Check Valve to the other side of the Aquacal flow bypass.

i put the check valve next to the heater because that is how pentair shows it on their bypass kit. i almost felt like it wasn't needed to be anywhere but right upstream of the chlorinator. why do they even show it on their bypass kit? can the heater be damaged from back flow?

 

[Brant]

like this?

 

[ajw22]

i put the check valve next to the heater because that is how pentair shows it on their bypass kit. i almost felt like it wasn't needed to be anywhere but right upstream of the chlorinator. why do they even show it on their bypass kit? can the heater be damaged from back flow?

If the heater is leaking or you want to prevent pool water that has damaging chemistry from entering the heater you need valves on both pipes.