Please help me calibrate my eyes

[aquaN00b]

Hello all! I'm new 'round here, as evidenced by my username. I bought a 1970's home in April with an original 21,000 gallon in-ground pool that's in great shape. I opened in June after getting a new fence installed around it for my two very young children. After some trial and error I got the chemicals right (according to the pool store guy), then it rained for weeks. At one point my FC dropped to basically zero. The owner left behind 3" Trichlor tablets, so I added them to the skimmer and a floating duck---my 3 year-old son loves the duck. I went through 6 tablets in the skimmer and like 4 in the duck over a couple weeks of raining and not swimming. My FC is now (possibly) high and stabilizer is just right, IMO. I just learned about CYA tonight. I also bought a Nautilus and have been running it a bunch.

Anyway, today was the first sunny Saturday in forever and the pool was crystal clear. I tested the water and, by my eyes, it looked ok to get in, albeit the FC looked a little high to me. Everything seemed fine while we were in and my son had a blast. Today was the very first time he's ever been in a "big" pool.

I've attached some testing pics and would like to get your opinions on where my levels are. I THINK I know where they are, but I have a bad habit of second guessing my own eyes and can easily talk myself into going against my gut. Let me know what y'all think. The strip pics are from 20 seconds up to 60 seconds like the instructions on the box. I'm thinking of getting one of those fancy Taylor liquid test kits.

I'm having people over tomorrow to swim and want to be extra sure my balance is good. I added two bags of Trichlor shock from Walmart tonight because it rained A LOT since I shocked last week. Again, I'll probably cut back on this Trichlor stuff, I don't want my CYA getting to high.


https://imgur.com/a/1Xjmx2B

 

[tomfrh]

Get a proper kit. The strips can be innacurate.

 

[Dirk]

The only thing worse than trying to determine levels by using a test strip, is trying to do so with a picture of a test strip! Oh, wait, worse still, looking at that picture on a computer monitor. Sorry, that's my smart-alecky way of saying: you need a proper test kit. I'll go tomfrh one better: the strips can be wildly inaccurate!

Pool School - Test Kits Compared

Get one ordered asap.

Unfortunately, that won't solve for tomorrow. Guys, which kit can he run down to Walmart to buy, to test well enough for his party?





PS. Nice job on the fence. Mind a little unsolicited advice? Based on my three-year-old, her quickness, her will, and her fearlessness of pools... if yours is enamored with the duck, then stop using the duck in your pool, fence or no...

You seen this video yet?

Dads viral video of toddler climbing pool ladder is a warning to parents - YouTube

Yah, and I'm a real blast at parties, too!

 

[aquaN00b]

Did y'all look at the pics in the link? I also have a bioguard 1200-V test kit with pics I uploaded. I'm just asking for a quick opinion on what colors/levels you all see. Even if the tests are inaccurate, I'm just interested at this point in seeing if my idea of the color of ideal is the same as y'all's based on the pics I uploaded. I'm also likely going to buy that Taylor kit everyone likes. Thanks!

 

[Jimrahbe]

an,

The problem is really twofold... One; the strips are very inaccurate and Two; your entire line of thinking about pool care is also inaccurate...

To directly answer your question, here is what I "see"..

FC - 3/6
pH - 7.8
TA - 80
TH - 200
CYA- 70

The fact that I listed them, makes then no less inaccurate.

On to your thinking... You first say that you believe your FC is high and then you add "shock" who's whole job is to drive FC through the roof.. You say you believe your CYA is too high, yet Shock adds more CYA to your pool. You say you are worried about you son's and guest's safety and comfort, yet you use the most inaccurate testing method to monitor your pool.. Don't feel bad, about 90% of all pool users do exactly what you are doing...

If you are really interested in maintaining your pool so that it is clear, sanitized, never smells like a public pool, and better yet, never having to add weekly doses of Pool Store Shock to your pool again, you should read through our Pool School and see what we are all about. Here is a link... Pool School - Pool School

Thanks for posting and please think about coming out of the dark and moving over to the TFP way of caring for your pool.

Jim R.

 

[kimkats]

I looked but please remember that each screen is calibrated different so what looks like orange on yours could look like red on mine. We call those strips "guess strips" as they are not even close to real life due to many factors such as how old they are from being made to how they were shipped and stored as high heat, like in a truck, can mess with them as well.

You could run down to Walmart and get the "baby" test kit hth 6 way just to squeak by until your good test kit gets here.

KIm

 

[aquaN00b]

Thanks Jim. If I wanted to remain in the dark, I wouldn't have bothered to register and ask questions here. It takes lots of time to get up to speed on a subject and forum this large. I'm working on it.

I never said I thought my CYA was too high, I said I thought it looked right on to me. But if you think it's 70 then maybe I'm not reading these things right. I'm not sure my liquid kit can even do CYA.

I added shocked based on reading multiple things pretty much everywhere that say shock once a week or after heavy rain storms.

The best piece of advice I've gotten so far is to pick a trusted source of pool information and stick to it because you'll get different info everywhere you go. I bought the swim universities art of pool care because the guy seems to know what he's talking about. He recommended the strips over the liquid kit "because it's hard to see the upper colors" and he's right about that. Someone posted a pic of the Taylor kit in another thread and said he hates testing pH because the upper registers are hard to see, and he was right.

Maybe I'll just get the pool store to test again today but they don't open till noon and I was trying to knock this out earlier if at all possible. I'll see if Walmart has the kit someone else mentioned. Is this bioguard liquid kit I have not good either then?


I see why people pay for pool care, it's not just for avoiding labor!

 

[#40Fan]

The Taylor 2006 kit on Amazon is $55 and you'd have it a couple of days. Well worth it.

The person who couldn't read the high pH reading....doesn't really matter. He needs to add a little MA to get it lower. Once lower, the reading is clearer to see.

 

[kimkats]

I am going to share another link with you. It is the videos of the tests being done. That should help you see how easy most of them are.

https://www.youtube.com/user/tf100testkit?feature=results_main

We have a couple of "tricks" for the pH test.
-white paper or plate held up behind the tube with a bright light over it.
-moving the tube back and forth until you get a good color match. Some times the color will be in the middle of the color range and that is okay
-only adding 4 drops of the pH regent helps some people make a better match. It changes the hue of the colors and some people have an easier time of it.

I am sorry you are not getting the answers you need or want. We try our best to help but we need accurate information to give the proper answers. I really hope you don't go to the pool store to get them to test your water. They tend to get it more wrong than right due to many factors

 

[tomfrh]

The Taylor 2006 kit on Amazon is $55 and you'd have it a couple of days. Well worth it.

The person who couldn't read the high pH reading....doesn't really matter. He needs to add a little MA to get it lower. Once lower, the reading is clearer to see.

yeah, the problem of picking between 7.9 and 8.0 when using drop testing is minor compared to the more fundamental errors using test strips.

 

[aquaN00b]

Yeah I'll get that Taylor kit. Interesting, I've never gotten the advice to distrust the pool stores readings. Everything always says take it to them. Can't say I'm surprised. But the guy who runs the place is in his 60's and family has owned the store since the 70's. They sell supplies and service pools. When I went in there the first time he grilled me on my plans for security and was happy to hear I paid to have a fence put in after buying the house and that I have a top lock for my sliding doors and planning to get alarms. He has 4 adult kids and after he tested my water he said it looks good and he would let his own kids get in. I put some trust in that opinion given his experience.


My main problem was reading the chlorine in my bioguard liquid kit. My eyes were messing with me and I couldn't tell if it was 3 5 or way darker than 5.


I'll ask again, is this bioguard liquid kit junk too?

 

[ctrav]

In post #5 above Jim posted numbers and I see about the same based on the pictures. FC should be your only concern for today based on test strip results. Since you are having folks over today just add a gallon of bleach now and add another gallon after folks leave or tomorrow morning. This will more than likely to get you through today and it’s too late to get down in the weeds. Your entertaining so go have fun!

Tomorrow start thinking about what you want to do to about your pool. You have options:

1. Hire a pool person
2. Go to pool store, follow there advice
3. Commit to TFP

Let’s discuss these options later. Today is your fun day so hang in there and all will be well!

 

[aquaN00b]

Tomorrow start thinking about what you want to do to about your pool. You have options:

1. Hire a pool person
2. Go to pool store, follow there advice
3. Commit to TFP

Let’s discuss these options later. Today is your fun day so hang in there and all will be well!

Thanks ctrav! Oh I'm pretty sure I'm going to commit to TFP. I love DIY and forums and am a member of many. I've even had the pleasure of helping lots of people with various things over the years. Unfortunately having a newborn, a preschooler, two dogs, new house with lots of maintenance and projects, etc. Leaves everything fighting for my attention. Like I had to explain to my oldest when my youngest came: one daddy, two kids, two dogs, one Mommy, I can't be in all places at once kiddo.

Another n00b question, is the bleach for increasing my FC for today? If I test again with the bioguard and it's 3 ppm or more, should I skip the bleach? Should I add it to skimmer, around the pool, or deep end? Also, if the pH is a little high, I might have time for the decreaser. I have to read the reentry instructions on it as I can't remember. My memory has gone to crapola.

 

[Jimrahbe]

an,

Assuming your CYA is 70 your FC should be 8 to 10 ppm... So while you and the pool store believe that your FC is too "High".. it looks low to us..

See this chart... [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[jeffchap]

I'll ask again, is this bioguard liquid kit junk too?

Accurate or not, chances are it only measures chlorine up to 5 ppm, and that's simply not sufficient for the TFP method, as we base our FC level on a percentage of your CYA and not a fixed value. I keep my FC in the 10-15 ppm range and only a FAS-DPD test is capable of measuring that. This is the reason there are only two test kits that we recommend, the TF-100 and the K2006. They are the only kits that include a FAS-DPD test.


As for pool stores, here's a fun little experiment for you -- take a water sample to three different stores and compare the test results. Then try to figure out how to choose which one to believe, as I'll guarantee you'll get widely varying results.

 

[tomfrh]

In fairness to the test strips, I find them pretty good for measuring FC. Mine goes to 10, plus you can dilute your water to get a lower reading where the scale is more finely graduated.

 

[kimkats]

I have another link to share with you: Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals It tells you what to use to adjust each level and how to add it.

Pool Stores-there are some that are good but most we have found do not do the tests the proper way. The computer reads? It has to be calibrated quite often. The drops tests? The FC drop test only reads to 5 or 10 depending on the kind. It goes on. I took my water to the three main pool stores in my town. Two had the same national brand name. The other was the other major national name. All three tested my water and had widely different results for all levels tested. The price to "fix" my water ranged from $50 to $178. I had tested my water before I left the house and all levels were within the range I keep my water based on TFP's recommendations. I also tested the water left over in the bottle just to see if the car ride had anything to do with it. Nope......my pH was a tick higher. Everything else was the same.

Here is the chart we use for our levels: Pool School - Recommended Levels

Now if you would like we can share the science behind how these levels were found. None of them are from "well this is how it has always been done". The pool industry is slowly coming to recognize how things needs to be changed. The one they are working on changing now is the CYA/FC relationship. If you don't want to wait on me you can do a search for "chem geek" on here.

Kim

- - - Updated - - -

In fairness to the test strips, I find them pretty good for measuring FC. Mine goes to 10, plus you can dilute your water to get a lower reading where the scale is more finely graduated.

The dilute increases the margin of error so be mindful of that.

 

[aquaN00b]

an,

Assuming your CYA is 70 your FC should be 8 to 10 ppm... So while you and the pool store believe that your FC is too "High".. it looks low to us..

See this chart... [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

Thanks,

Jim R.

Tbf, the pool store guy never said my FC level was too high and I never said he did. I said I thought that based on my readings yesterday because my FC was zero then I went through like 9 tablets in 2 weeks and now it's appears darker red than my bioguard which only measures to 5 ppm. The pool guy just simply told me my water was safe for swimming more than a month ago shortly after opening and triple shocking it.


I failed to mention, the main thing that set me off on this quest for a second opinion was reading the label on the shock that warned not to reenter if it's over 4 ppm due to "risk of bodily injury". Considering young kids are getting in the pool today, that line gave me much pause in my confidence of my chemical levels.

I just did the bioguard again, the pH is a little low between 7.2 and 6.8 and the FC looks to be 5 or higher. I am going to leave the pH alone for now

 

[ctrav]

I could sense slight level of frustration...we have all been there I don’t know anything about bioguard as I don’t use it and I left off pH as it can wait. My intent is to keep it simple for today!

Yes bleach will increase your FC. Try to get at least 6% but 8.25 is better. If you can only find 6% then add 2 gallons. Remember just plain bleach with “NO” additives!!! Don’t pour in skimmer...make sure pump is running to circulate the water and slowly pour the bleach in front of one of your returns (you know the little eyeball thingys that shoot the water back in the pool). I would make sure it’s added at least an hour before guests arrive.

again don’t worry about the pH for today

 

[aquaN00b]

I could sense slight level of frustration...we have all been there I don’t know anything about bioguard as I don’t use it and I left off pH as it can wait. My intent is to keep it simple for today!

Yes bleach will increase your FC. Try to get at least 6% but 8.25 is better. If you can only find 6% then add 2 gallons. Remember just plain bleach with “NO” additives!!! Don’t pour in skimmer...make sure pump is running to circulate the water and slowly pour the bleach in front of one of your returns (you know the little eyeball thingys that shoot the water back in the pool). I would make sure it’s added at least an hour before guests arrive.

again don’t worry about the pH for today

Ok cool. Based on my last test I think my FC MIGHT not need the increase. Attached are pics, two different backgrounds