Planning for a 40-year old pool update - feedback/suggestions please!

[Stomp]

Hi TFP – been years since I was active here but it’s time to re-engage.

We thought we were going to start our backyard update/pool remodel this spring, but between the ‘rona and losing time on the initial plans we need to wait until after this season to do it. Bummed on one hand, but the good news is it gives us more time to plan…and get great suggestions from the experts here

Here is the pool today (sorry about the panorama messing up the perspective on the first pic):







The hedge behind the pool is on the beginning of a moderate slope. My concern is that given the house and pool was built in the 70’s, and during our recent remodel we had to do five roughly 3x20 ft caissons to support our new deck (due to the 70’s fill not being to current code), that changing the shape of the pool would require more shoring/caissons behind the pool. While my pool deck does show some moderate cracking, nothing is happening to indicate that it's sliding toward the slope.

Ideally we would have gone with this option because it better matches the remodeled house (and would be easier to cover!!!):



Unfortunately I believe that, beyond the incremental cost of totally changing the pool shape, it would likely require a level of permitting and excavation that could result in a lot more money being spent. As such, I’d like to keep the current shape of the pool, blow out & replace deck/coping/tiles, and add a baja shelf. Here is what our landscape architect came up with (no details on the pool).





You’ll note we’re intending to do a separate above-ground jacuzzi vs digging in the ground. Part of that is intended to avoid any new digging, but my wife is also “afraid of animals” and would prefer something closer to the house for night use. I’ve heard stand-alone jacuzzis can get a bit funky, but welcome thoughts and feedback on that.

So here’s the thing – I love automation, LED lights, and pretty much anything tech-forward. Our house is pretty “smart”, so as much as possible I’d like to have the remodeled pool be smart, have lots of lighting features, and basically make it as current/dialed in as possible with the caveat that I don’t think I want to upset the shell, right?

I assume that I can touch my jets, replace the light, but otherwise most of my features need to be in the coping/deck area and not really underwater (or at least not below the tile line).

I’ve never done this before, I don’t know what I don’t know, so I’m looking for those that have walked the path to provide some guidance and feedback before I engage with a pool contractor. While I absolutely can’t say that money is no object, because it definitely is, I’d rather know what’s possible within the scope of the project and dial back from there.

Also, I can't help but wonder whether I'm I safe to leave my PVC pipe in tact where it is, or am I taking significant risks by not "fixing"/changing all the pipes? Are there other things I should be considering?

Thanks a ton for any feedback and thoughts - I'm hoping this will be one of those threads that starts with renderings and ends with the real deal.

Derek

 

[kimkats]

add a baja shelf

where do you think you want this shelf at??? I am thinking where the round area already comes into the pool would make the purrfect spot as it is already part of the pool! Now it will be a usable spot inside the pool!

a separate above-ground jacuzzi

Will this be a "real" Jacuzzi/hot tub made out of fiberglass with all of those wonderful jets and comfy seats?

I’ve heard stand-alone jacuzzis can get a bit funky, but welcome thoughts and feedback on that.

Look what I have for you: Ahh-some goes head to head with oh yuk
I will tell you that you need to use the Ahh-some treatment on the BRAND NEW spa.........it will need it! See they test them at the factory and drain most BUT not all of the water out....some water stays in the pipes and get yucky over time. We also have a whole section for hot tub care to help keep it from getting funky!

I love automation, LED lights, and pretty much anything tech-forward.

Paging @ajw22 to the bat phone!! He can get you all set up with links and ideas!

Also, I can't help but wonder whether I'm I safe to leave my PVC pipe in tact where it is, or am I taking significant risks by not "fixing"/changing all the pipes? Are there other things I should be considering?

@jimmythegreek is the man for this! Jimmy I am thinking he will want to add a return to the shelf. Is that something he can/should do?

I LOVE how your house turned out and hope the pool area can turn out like the mock up!!

Kim

 

[Stomp]

Hi Kim,

Thanks so much for your reply - I'm not used to this interface so please bear with my attempt to reply.

Also, it goes without saying, but I forgot to explicitly state that our plaster is in terrible condition so that needs to go. We're leaning toward one of the Pebble Tec finishes, but haven't spent enough time testing them to see which we like.

where do you think you want this shelf at??? I am thinking where the round area already comes into the pool would make the purrfect spot as it is already part of the pool! Now it will be a usable spot inside the pool!

That's actually a fantastic idea. My idea had been to drop it in the shallow end (the side furthest from the fire pit by the stairs coming down from the lower patio), but if we can make that area a bit bigger by building it out I think would be perfect (it might be too small if we can't build it out a bit).

Will this be a "real" Jacuzzi/hot tub made out of fiberglass with all of those wonderful jets and comfy seats?

That's exactly the plan - lots of jets/seating. We want to build up a deck around it to give it a built-in look.

Paging @ajw22 to the bat phone!! He can get you all set up with links and ideas!

Thank you - I need a new heater and mentioned to the person I spoke with today that I'll want full automation when we eventually re-do the pool. He's recommending a Jandy unit and spoke highly of their automation, but I need to spend some time in these forums to see what's what.

@jimmythegreek is the man for this! Jimmy I am thinking he will want to add a return to the shelf. Is that something he can/should do?

I'm all ears.

I LOVE how your house turned out and hope the pool area can turn out like the mock up!!

Thank you. We're quite happy too - but there is such a disconnect between the old and the new...we really need to do this to bring it all together.

 

[kimkats]

I'm not used to this interface so please bear with my attempt to reply.

You nailed it on your first try!!

our plaster is in terrible condition so that needs to go. We're leaning toward one of the Pebble Tec finishes, but haven't spent enough time testing them to see which we like.

We will talk about that more. I have a thread for you to look at Pool Finish and Color Viewing Room...TFP Member Sound Off This will show you some different colors.

When you go to "test" out the different plasters make sure to feel it with your elbows and knees.............say what???? They are much softer than your hands or feet so they are the ones that rough plaster will hurt/abrade.

want full automation

For automation you need to keep it all the same brand so they all talk the same language!! VERY important!

So I wanted to make sure we were talking about the same place/idea for the shelf so I used my baby paint skills to show you what I was thinking. The light blue is just the bump in turned into your shelf. I was not sure if that would be big enough so added to it with the darker blue.

What are your thoughts? It is OKAY if you do NOT like it.....just talk to me........tell me what you like or do not like and we can go from there.

Kim

 

[Stomp]

So I wanted to make sure we were talking about the same place/idea for the shelf so I used my baby paint skills to show you what I was thinking. The light blue is just the bump in turned into your shelf. I was not sure if that would be big enough so added to it with the darker blue.

I'm not seeing the picture/attachment. Is there an embedded link I'm missing?

Thx for the link the finishes - super helpful!

 

[kimkats]

I'm not seeing the picture/attachment. Is there an embedded link I'm missing?

OPPS! Trying to do too many things at once. Here it is:

 

[Stomp]

Yep - that's it. Thrilled with the suggestion.

 

[ajw22]

Post pictures of your existing equipment pad.

You know what type and model lights are currently in the pool?

Adding lights to an existing pool can be an invasive procedure. You are already going to demo the existing deck. Are you planning to repipe the pool? It need changes to the skimmers or returns?

Your builder likes Jandy because it takes care of builders at the expense of customers. Many of us here like Pentair automation and equipment since their IntelliCenter automation is modular and expandable and gets software updates through the cloud. Jandy has fixed hardware that has to be replaced to expand or update it.

What type of heater do you have and are you planning? Gas? Heat Pump?

What home automation systems do you have in your house?

 

[Stomp]

Post pictures of your existing equipment pad.

It's a mess but I'm just trying to buy time until we do the remodel.

You know what type and model lights are currently in the pool?

Just a cheap aftermarket LED light that I bought on eBay (found on here) back in 2012 or 2013. Cycles through colors by turning the light on and off.

Adding lights to an existing pool can be an invasive procedure. You are already going to demo the existing deck. Are you planning to repipe the pool? It need changes to the skimmers or returns?

Recognizing that I have no clue what goes into it, as much as possible I was hoping to avoid digging up next to the pool. My thought had been to replace the existing single light with a new updated fixture, and I was wondering whether any other LED lighting features could be at or near the waterline where I'm tearing up the deck/coping/tiles. I don't know if this makes sense, but I was thinking that it would be best not to start excavating too much around the shell. My skimmer is in terrible shape (cracked and warped plastic) so that definitely needs to be replaced. As for the returns - some have busted pieces, but all seem to work. My decorative water feature/fountain (3 nozzles) stopped working a few years ago. I have the big drain at the bottom but somebody told me those aren't used any more, so not sure whether that can/should be sealed up without repiping.

Your builder likes Jandy because it takes care of builders at the expense of customers. Many of us here like Pentair automation and equipment since their IntelliCenter automation is modular and expandable and gets software updates through the cloud. Jandy has fixed hardware that has to be replaced to expand or update it.

I don't have a builder yet - buying from a local equipment shop that a friend went through a couple of weeks ago. He seemed open to either (sold the friend a Sta-Rite), and despite having "ordered" from him today, I can call him or change out to Pentair tomorrow. I do like the thought of OTA updates.

What type of heater do you have and are you planning? Gas? Heat Pump?

Gas - the one I was intending to get was the Jandy JXi 400k Versaflo

What home automation systems do you have in your house?

Lutron RadioRa 2 is my core system, bought a Hubitat but haven't installed yet as I'm not quite that technical and haven't had the time with work getting in the way. Generally lean toward Alexa as our smart assistant over the other ones.

Thx a ton for taking the time.

 

[Stomp]

Update: I spoke w/ the equipment guy this morning and would like to stick with the Jandy. We live in a reasonably warm climate and probably won't use the heater that often during the main season (I'll likely continue to cover the pool), and I like the the versaflow option for efficiency savings on the pump side. In his opinion the Jandy is a bit more rodent-resistant as well. Finally, his assertion was that the Jandy heater can basically work equally well regardless of the automation I ultimately choose. Install on Thursday morning. Thx.

 

[Stomp]

In speaking with a friend who is a contractor he suggested that I could consider Fiber Optic lights. According to him these could be a PITA to install, so the expense would be largely in the labor, but he said the Fiber Optic strands can be laid down before the plaster (PebbleTec) goes on and don't require any new holes in the pool structure itself (something I still believe that I'm attempting to avoid if possible). I suspect it looks something like this on the equipment side:

could you tell me what this part for.

i saw this in my pool room i don't know what they used for it had 4 conduct come in it is 110v when i plug in sound like it running.thanks

www.troublefreepool.com

Some pool examples seem to be like these - does anyone have direct experience with this?



Some info here:

Fiber Optic Pool Lighting

Thx for any input.

 

[kimkats]

According to him these could be a PITA to install, so the expense would be largely in the labor, but he said the Fiber Optic strands can be laid down before the plaster (PebbleTec) goes on and don't require any new holes in the pool structure itself

AND there is the rub!............finding someone who is ABLE to do it! This is not an everyday thing so not many will have the skills to pull it off. Now if you can find someone that HAS done it before I say jump on it!!! FAIRY LIGHTS to the max!!!

A LONG while back a Dad had something like this put on the shelf of the pool for his daughter. Several of them go covered up with plaster and some were stuck up too far so got broken and some laid down so did not look right. BUT with the moon out and the lights lite up they sure were pretty if you did not look too close.

 

[Stomp]

Thanks, @kimkats.

@jimmythegreek (or anyone else in the know) - I've been doing more research and doing new pipes may not be as bad as I was thinking.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but do they now abandon/cover up the drain at the bottom of the pool? If so, is the trenching required for new pipes/returns (and if I want, additional lights, those too) only a few below the water line (as opposed to needing to excavate all the way to the bottom/underside of the pool).

If that's the case, and assuming I want to keep the same shape (except for adding the baja shelf), is that reasonably easy since we're already tearing out all of the concrete deck). I know there are some returns on the bottom of the pool in the shallow end, but hopefully those can be abandoned too.

Would really appreciate insights from anyone willing to share.

 

[kimkats]

I can only speak on the main drain......You can block and cover up the main drain if you want. You do not have to have them. A very deep pool they can come in handy to mix the water so the water temp is the same through out the pool. This can also be achieved using the returns with some careful attention to where they are pointed. Those bottom returns could come in handy for that very reason.

Kim

 

[jimmythegreek]

Main drains not needed. Easy enough to repipe with the deck gone. Your doing new pool finish?

 

[Stomp]

Main drains not needed. Easy enough to repipe with the deck gone. Your doing new pool finish?

Yes - probably PebbleTec (PebbleFina), but haven’t tested it yet.

 

[Stomp]

@jimmythegreek - one more question for you (or others that have an opinion). While we've been intending to do the above-ground jacuzzi, we're still considering whether it makes more sense to integrate one with the pool instead. If we did this we'd want to do it away from the slope side of the house since I really don't want to disturb the slope side any more than needed (again - the thought of building a massive retaining wall or digging cai$$ons scares me. I have two primary questions:

1.) If we were to want to dig into the existing deck area to add the jacuzzi, is that reasonably straight-forward when it comes to tying into the existing pool structure (concrete/gunnite). In other words, if we have to blow out a section of the shell/wall to do this is that bad for whatever reason?

2.) If we don't want to do any digging, and instead use the existing footprint of a pool, can you basically steal space from the existing pool, build up some walls, and take that approach to create a jacuzzi?

Thanks to all of you for helping me with these questions - I really want to be as educated as possible before hitting up the contractor/pool designer/etc.

 

[ajw22]

Anything can be done with rebar and gunite and enough $$$.

I suggest you get some quotes for both options and see what your local contractors say about degree of difficulty.

1 will likely cost more then 2. But you will lose space inside your pool with creating a spa area inside.

 

[jimmythegreek]

Cost is about the same either way you have to epoxy amd anchor the new concrete. You wont blow any walls out you will just add to them. The big pain is the plumbing adding a spa is alot of pipe. I see your in CA so maybe you have good weather year round. Here in the Northeast I always go with standalone spa makes way more sense otherwise you lose half a year due to winterizing.