Phosphates & wall staining

[Donna P]

*Sigh*
So I’ve had my new fiberglass pool for about a year. A couple months ago I noticed wall staining ( below the water line). After hours of reading and youtubing and determining it was metal staining, I gave it an ascorbic acid treatment about 2 weeks ago, followed by Jacks Magic Blue Stuff and a CULATOR in the skimmer basket.
I followed all directions regarding where to keep the PH/ALk/chlorine levels during the metal treatment. The pool has looked amazing ever since. Until my new pool test kit arrives (Amazon is lagging a bit), I took a sample to My friendly overpriced Pool Store last weekend to verify the levels before I officially open the pool.
Here are the results:
FC 0
TC 0
PH 7.4
Alk 74
calcium 200
CYA 80
Iron 0
copper 0
Phosphates 1000
Tds 2200
Last week i added baking Soda(applicable amount for my size pool) Alk today is about 90
I also Added a small amount of liquid chlorine (because I CANT FIND BLEACH! Argh!)
A couple,days later I left a couple 1 inch tabs in a floater .
Today FC is .03 TC 1. I’ve read you can’t increase too rapidly after a metal treatment.
The pool store recommended doing a partial drain and refill to eliminate the phosphates.
So today I noticed the staining is reappearing.
SO...
I could be way off, but it seems that the use of chlorine tablets, whether in a floater or in the chlorine dispenser, is the common denominator in this whole staining issue.
Or maybe it’s the use of the pool heater ( I did fire it up about 10 days ago)
Or maybe phosphates have something to do with staining?
Please note that I am the only pool user and I haven’t been in it yet this year, so water chemical levels have been fairly consistent, and also I was terrible at Chemistry in High School so if you try & explain what’s happening in chemistry terms, you might as well be speaking Latin.
Ya’ll have the expertise, can someone chime in please?
Details in my signature. Yes, it’s that’s small. We get NO land with our new homes here in Vegas. ?
thanks !

 

[Texas Splash]

also I was terrible at Chemistry in High School

Don't get me started on that. I went to Rancho there ('81). Anyways, here's the deal. You're never going to get this solved by going to the pool store. No way. Their testing is often flawed, performed under poor lighting conditions, and oftentimes by seasonal employees in a rush. Step #1 is to use your own proper test kit. You have one coming, so just hang tight. Make sure to add it to your signature.

In the meantime, your pool always needs chlorine. That's a must. The Vegas valley water shouldn't have metals in the water, so that means if there is iron or copper in there that is causing stains, it's from something you added (chems from the pools store) or the copper in the heater is eroding. If you have a bypass valve to the heater, I would close the loop on it for now so that water does not go through the heater.

Even though the pool store didn't show metals, you may have some. We can help you with tests later, but for now go ahead and get some chlorine in there. If Home Depot is out of the HDX 10%, check Walmart for theri Pool Essentials. But that
s the best way - regular bleach or pool chlorine (same thing). If your CYA really is that high, you need an FC level of about 7-8, so don't feel like that's too high. Always go back to the FC/CYA Levels and see how the CYA and FC match-up.

When you get your kit, post a full set of results and we'll go from there.

 

[Texas Splash]

Oh, and I almost forgot .... the phosphates are not your problem. That's pool store jargon again.

 

[Donna P]

Thanks for the quick response. How funny, I used to live in Texas! I loved it there.
A couple verifications to your points:
-There shouldn’t be erosion of anything- the pool and all of its equipment are barely a year old. Am I correct?
Im thinking that water doesn’t pass through the heater unless I turn it on...? It’s then that its valve opens. But I could be wrong.
-The only pool store chemical I’ve ever added was Muriatic Acid to lower PH back in Nov. and in Feb. I’ve since purchased Bio Guard products to raise & lower (if needed ) per the manufacturer recommendation.
- I do have HTH liquid chlorinator, 10% that I had to travel 30 minutes to get from Ace Hardware . Per the pool math calculator, I’ll need to add 13 oz. to get it to 4ppm. I’m afraid to raise it too quickly ; too much chlorine seems to make the staining worse. A couple days ago it was at 5-6 & after that the staining came back.
- If there’s a possibility I’ll need to drain some water, I’m gonna need to call in and pay a real pool person. I’d rather they teach me about the equipment than YouTube ?
I’ve got a Taylor Kit coming next week. Until then I’ve got some 5 in 1 Aquacheck strips & a basic 3 Way kit.
Any other suggestions until then?

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Have you ever used any Clorox XtraBlue tabs or products?? Anything with copper in it? Cheap algaecides?

Maddie

 

[Texas Splash]

Okay, so I can build upon your replies as well:
- 1 year old; the pool and equipment should be pristine. But, if the pH was ever allowed to crash below 7 for too long, it could impact the heater element. But without an accurate test history it's hard to know.
- Unless you have a bypass valve installed before the pump, water is always flowing through your heater. What happens is the heater simply turns on to activate the heating element when required. But you can post a pic of your equipment pad for us to see. You might also checkout this article: Heater Bypass - Further Reading.
- For the Bio Guard, that might be your problem. Can you post a pic of that product and also of the ingredients label?
- The fact that stains are appearing once you increase the FC level would seem to indicate that you have iron/copper in the water. Iron usually comes from a well, and copper from an eroded heater element or those pool store potions & algaecides. That's my #1 concern.
- There are different ways to perform a water exchange. We can help you with that if/when the time comes. It's not as complicated as you might think. Nothing like chemistry class.
- Once you get your new test kit, make sure to add it to your signature and post a full set of test results. If you have ANY questions about how to perform any of those tests, let us know.
- Oh, and one more pic request ... of the stains.

Glad I made it back home last Sept for a show at Park MGM before this whole virus mess hit. I see pics of the strip and it's like a ghost town. Anyways, we'll get you through this.

 

[Donna P]

...still waiting for the Taylor test kit to arrive, and I'll get pics posted on Wed. I do have a little 3 in one kit and today the chlorine was at 5 and the PH was 7.4 or so. Which is strange because the test strips showed much lower numbers. Argh!
Hi Maddie, thanks for chiming in. I think I used a Chlorox tablet...once..? In a pinch.
Up until now I haven't needed or used anything but Muriatic Acid & bleach( tablets and liquid). Oh, and a little baking soda. I did give it a metal treatment with ascorbic acid and followed up with Jack's Magic Blue Sequestrant and a CULator in the skimmer. But i havent used any other pool store chemicals.
I'll post the Bioguard info also. I haven't used them yet so I'll wait to hear what ya''ll have to say before I do. I bought them because even Borax & baking soda are nowhere to be found.
This isn't such a bad time to have pool trouble and do some research since I've been furloughed indefinitely (along with 250,000+ other Las Vegans) and I don't really leave the neighborhood for, like, a week ?

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Don't bother buying anything you don't actually need. Why store it when the store will do it for you? Borax is found in the laundry aisle is called "20 Mule Team", and big bags of baking soda can be found in the baking goods aisle of many stores like Walmart.

Maddie

 

[Donna P]

Aiight, pics of my equipment, the pool stain and the Bio Guard products, which are basically Muriatic Acid and Borax (which is still sold out everywhere). Sorry, there's not much room to squeeze in & take a good pic of the equipment, let me know if details are missing.
THanks.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Are you sure that's not just a scum line of body lotions, oils, hair products, etc? Can you take a magic eraser to it and gently scrub it off? or a MyteeMitt which I love to use: Amazon.com: Gladon MM24 Mytee Pool and Spa Cleaning Mitt: Garden & Outdoor

Those Biogard products are over priced- muriatic acid is more reliable/quicker & cheaper than the pH decreaser. The pH increaser is just baking soda. Again, Arm and Hammer is cheaper.

Maddie

 

[Donna P]

I doubt it, I'm the only one living here and the staining started around February, so I hadn't even been in it. Magic Eraser doesn't remove it, it's definitely metal staining- ascorbic acid is the only thing that can take it off.
I'd rather use baking soda, bleach or borax, believe me, but at the time, no store had any in stock! Neither did Amazon.