Phoenix Metro Area...New Pool owner

[FourSevenRonin]

Shout-out to colleage Grant Dornbos for getting me hooked-up with TFP. 22,000 gallon chlorine pool 1 year old.

First year I relied on the pHin device to help manage my chems.....what a farce!

TA
CYA
TH

all beyond limits...I relied on "Leslies" to handle my needs....naively not knowing I was falling into their trap.

Just dumped the water and I have reviewed all applicable sections on TFP. In process of converting from a tab system to a Stenner in-line chlorinator. To maintain chlorine levels in the height of the Phoenix summer required floating 5 -8 tabs.....hence the embarrassing chem numbers. Salt never an option...too much travertine in and around pool.

Any one in the Phoenix area with positive Stenner results and chlorine holding tank capacity recommend please hit me up.

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!
Have you ordered a proper test kit yet? Do it now. We suggest the TF100, best value for the residential owner.

Good plan on the Stenner for chlorine. The SWCG would not harm anything but either way is good. Only issue I would have with the Stenner is having to refill the tank every week or so. We leave for much longer than that during the year so our SWCG maintains the FC without issue.

I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry and consider reviewing the entire Pool School eBook.

You may also want to get the Poolmath app.

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! In your area, with that lovely AZ hard water, you might also plan in advance to manage CH as best as possible as elevated CH levels are very common in that region. Consider a pool cover to minimize evaporation (hard water refills) and/or augment refills with soft water. Enjoy!

 

[Arizonarob]

Welcome to TFP Ronin!

Hang tight, I’ve got the perfect desert dweller to answer your stenner question.
@jonpcar

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Welcome to the club (of people that screwed up their pools and ended up here).

You're in good hands.

 

[FourSevenRonin]

Welcome to the forum!
Have you ordered a proper test kit yet? Do it now. We suggest the TF100, best value for the residential owner.

Good plan on the Stenner for chlorine. The SWCG would not harm anything but either way is good. Only issue I would have with the Stenner is having to refill the tank every week or so. We leave for much longer than that during the year so our SWCG maintains the FC without issue.

I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry and consider reviewing the entire Pool School eBook.

You may also want to get the Poolmath app.

Will Do...

Thanks for the hardy welcome. SWCG not an option with a slew of travertine all around. I have the TF-100 ready to go. I agree on the tank comment and as an airline pilot I too am gone for stretches. Im thinking a 30 gallon tank will suffice.

Pool is refilling today after a warranty rust repair to the PebbleSheen.

ChemWarFare begins Monday and any warm weather refill tips are appreciated. Great forum!

 

[Texas Splash]

ChemWareFare begins Monday and any warm weather refill tips are appreciated.

Once full, consider the following:
1 - New water has no CYA, so be prepared to add stabilizer. TFP min is 30, but you'll easily go to 50 or so in the summer. For now, pick your poison - 30 or 40. Use the sock-soaking method to hang and disolve the granular stabilizer.
2 - Until the CYA is in the wayer, only add enough chlorine (or regular bleach) for an FC goal of about 2-3. But once the stabilizer is disolved, increase and manage your FC according to the Chlorine/CYA Chart (link below)
3 - Check/adjust pH. It has the quickest impact on the potential for scale or plaster erosion. For now, keep the pH in the 7.5 -7.7 range. Once you confirm and load all levels into the Poolmth app, to include water temp, the app will show you if any further adjustments are required. Or, you can post all those numbers back here and we'll help guide you.

Don't forget to update your signature with more details about your pool and equipment! See ours as examples. Have a great weekend.

 

[FourSevenRonin]

Once full, consider the following:
1 - New water has no CYA, so be prepared to add stabilizer. TFP min is 30, but you'll easily go to 50 or so in the summer. For now, pick your poison - 30 or 40. Use the sock-soaking method to hang and disolve the granular stabilizer.
2 - Until the CYA is in the wayer, only add enough chlorine (or regular bleach) for an FC goal of about 2-3. But once the stabilizer is disolved, increase and manage your FC according to the Chlorine/CYA Chart (link below)
3 - Check/adjust pH. It has the quickest impact on the potential for scale or plaster erosion. For now, keep the pH in the 7.5 -7.7 range. Once you confirm and load all levels into the Poolmth app, to include water temp, the app will show you if any further adjustments are required. Or, you can post all those numbers back here and we'll help guide you.

Don't forget to update your signature with more details about your pool and equipment! See ours as examples. Have a great weekend.

Pure Gold!!! Thanks for your time. Great advice.

 

[mknauss]

Will Do...

Thanks for the hardy welcome. SWCG not an option with a slew of travertine all around. I have the TF-100 ready to go. I agree on the tank comment and as an airline pilot I too am gone for stretches. Im thinking a 30 gallon tank will suffice.

Pool is refilling today after a warranty rust repair to the PebbleSheen.

ChemWarFare begins Monday and any warm weather refill tips are appreciated. Great forum!

Do realize that liquid chlorine degrades in heat. So a 30 gallon tank may not be the best idea. Leaving 10 or 12.%% in the sun at Arizona temperatures will see degradation at a rapid rate. After 30 days, I would suspect it will lose 25-30% of its potency.

You do realize that a pool using liquid chlorine and muriatic acid will have salinity well above 1000 ppm after a few months. We have seen no documented issues between travertine and the salt water levels seen in pools, which is at or less than 3000ppm.

Take care.

 

[jonpcar]

Welcom Ronin. Rob called me out but I am not sure that I am a good one for Stenner Pump advice since I am a newbie at it too (it'll be a year for me in a couple months).

There are lots of great threads here on stenner pumps...here is a good one:
Stenner liquid chlorine pump - How to choose and install

My install thread is here...a bit unique but I got all my ideas from others on this forum.
Stenner installation with buried tank for AZ heat

A few comments, I agree with Marty, 30gallons is probably too big for the reasons he cited. I have a 15 gallon tank and I expected to get a month out of it in the summer. I still may, but last summer I only got about 20-25 days with it...I may have had problems with my pool chemistry so I'll be more careful as the summer hits this year.

Make sure you characterize your pool carefully before installing the stenner pump by doing a bunch of tests by hand. That is something I have been doing the last few weeks which I never appropriately did. For example: exactly how many ounces of chlorine does it takes to raise your pool by +1FC (or +4FC: larger numbers are usually easier to characterize and measure and then scale back to the +1 case). Also, be sure to characterize your stenner pump before you start using it. Know how many ounces per minute is dispensing by testing it before you put it in (easier that way with water). I chose a pump that delivers 10gpm/day and it actually delivers about 12.5gpm/day; not that far off but it does impact calculations.

I would choose a slightly higher gpm/day if I did it again. I have another stenner pump that I bought (higher gpm, but I haven't characterized it yet), which I will probably use for chlorine and move my current one to acid. There are, of course, ways to increase/decrease stenner pump volume by changing the tube inside of it.

I had a very similar regimen to yours in that I used pucks left and right to try and keep my pool looking clean. CYA was extremely high. But unless we do something like Rob did (softwater to refill evaporation), we in AZ will still have to drain our pools on a TBD basis because of rising calcium which we can't avoid. So TFP won't solve all our problems...but I do love the look and feel of my water since changing over.

Good luck and keep asking questions as you start your implementation.

 

[MyAZPool]

FourSevenRonin
Welcome to TFP. Ever since joining TFP and nearly religiously incorporating the TFP methods of pool care and using the great advice that I have received here, my pool has never looked better. Always sparkling clean and clear. And I don't think it's just me. Nearly every friend, neighbor etc. that comes in my backyard now, always comments on the pool water "cleanliness" and clarity.

I second the comments above about possibly using soft water from the softener to combat rising CH to compensate for evaporation and back-washes. Since plumbing my autofill to the house plumbing (soft water), my CH first stabilized at about 550 (after doing a 1/5 drain). I then had to do a small backwash and drain after those big rains we just had recently, (water level had reached the coping). Now my CH has crept down to the high 400's. It works. My City of Chandler water tests at 250ppm and my softened water tests at 25ppm. You can really see the difference.

Again, welcome....
r.
Oh yea, as some say here... "JUST SAY NO, TO PUCKS"

 

[FourSevenRonin]

Do realize that liquid chlorine degrades in heat. So a 30 gallon tank may not be the best idea. Leaving 10 or 12.%% in the sun at Arizona temperatures will see degradation at a rapid rate. After 30 days, I would suspect it will lose 25-30% of its potency.

You do realize that a pool using liquid chlorine and muriatic acid will have salinity well above 1000 ppm after a few months. We have seen no documented issues between travertine and the salt water levels seen in pools, which is at or less than 3000ppm.

Take care.

My objection to salt is a carry over from my pool designer/builder Azul Verde in Cave Creek. Mike & Gary are not fans of the salt generation systems. I’m open for debate.

 

[Arizonarob]

Ronin, if you’re gone for long stretches, a SWG will be the best way to go. There are tons of experts on the forum that will direct you with the setup and installation if you’re a DIY person.

 

[mknauss]

SWCG's were sold as 'no maintenance'. Cannot be further from the truth. One must still test FC regularly and pH must be kept under control. With our high CH and TA water here in the southwest you must also monitor CSI and keep your scaling tendencies in check. I have had a SWCG for nearly 5 years and have never had to clean any scale from it.

Once you learn your pool you can leave for extensive time periods without issue. We leave for weeks (sometimes a couple months) and with the appropriate use of trichlor (primarily for their acidic properties) and some application of acid by a nearby friend, we have no issues. If you install connectability to the internet with your automation you can adjust things from anywhere, if needed.

The issue pool builders would have is the pH issue. Many pool owners rely on weekly pool maintenance and thus the pH is not well controlled and typically allowed to have wide swings. The most damage to any pool surface, be it stone, plaster, or metals, is out of control pH.

 

[MyAZPool]

FourSevenRonin
Just from my perspective, I could not agree more (100%) with mknauss, and Arizonarob. I wouldn't trade my SWCG for the world and if it died tomorrow, I WOULD trade my first born for another one immediately, (not really ) but I think you get my drift.

I could not ever see myself owning a pool without one. And for that matter, now that I have them, I would include automation and a variable speed pump to the list.

All I do is this, to maintain my FC on target all year round.

1. Do regular testing.​

2. Adjust my SWCG output percentage from my automation occasionally. Output % up, as the water temp increases, Output % down as the water temp decreases.​

3. Once water temp is too cold for SWCG output (late November to early March), I might add about a half gallon total of liquid chlorine throughout the cold months.​

It's really as simple as that. And owning two different SWCG's over the past 12 years, I have not seen any detrimental effects to my pool finish or anything else by maintaining a salt content of approximately 4000ppm. 4000ppm is no saltier than probably a tear drop.
I hope this gives you another similar perspective to consider.
Please take care.
r.

​

 

[FourSevenRonin]

Ok....

I love this input. I will start evaluating the options with vigor.