Ph, TA and CH Issues

tim5055

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 11, 2014
10,410
Franklin, NC
I won't have too much more info for a few more days. I am replacing the filters before I turn the system back on. Amazon had a 4 pack of filters for $160. Leslies had them in stock for $400. I can wait 5 days for that $ difference. Didn't want new refilled water running through the turquoise filters. I could have gotten some of the turquoise out. It was a little pastey/gummy and didn't want to run the risk if I couldn't get it all out.
If you have refilled the pool you need to keep your FC up so it doesn't go green from stuff starting to grow. When I lost my pump and was out of commission for 5 days I added liquid chlorine daily and then mixed as well as I could with my skimmer net. I also ran my robot to keep the water mixed as well.
 

Rick T

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2019
95
Houston, TX
Thanks, Tim. I dumped 1.5 gallons of 10% in it on Saturday. The water is pretty cold (50-60 degrees) which should slow down any growth. I will dump another 1/2 gallon in it today. Is there any reason why I can't close the filter back up without the cartridges in it and turn the pump back on just to keep the pool stirred up? I need the main pump on to run/power the Polaris pump.
 

Rick T

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2019
95
Houston, TX
I watched this youtube video on opening up the heater and might consider doing this. At least I might open it up today and look inside the heater tub.


Anyone ever do this?
 

tim5055

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 11, 2014
10,410
Franklin, NC
Thanks, Tim. I dumped 1.5 gallons of 10% in it on Saturday. The water is pretty cold (50-60 degrees) which should slow down any growth. I will dump another 1/2 gallon in it today. Is there any reason why I can't close the filter back up without the cartridges in it and turn the pump back on just to keep the pool stirred up? I need the main pump on to run/power the Polaris pump.
When adding chlorine without a pump running remember to stirr it up as bes as possible. Chlorine is a little heavier than water and in some cases acan sink to the bottom and bleach the pool in that area.

The only reason I can think of is pulling copper out of the heater into your new water. You could add a bypass around the heater and eliminate it form the loop for now if you wanted. a little pipe, a few 90's and 3 valves would be all you needed.
 

Rick T

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2019
95
Houston, TX
You could add a bypass around the heater and eliminate it form the loop for now if you wanted. a little pipe, a few 90's and 3 valves would be all you needed.
Any reason if I did this that I could inhibit water from flowing through the heater from now on except when I'm using/testing the heater? What ramifications would there be if no water ran through the heater for months at a time?
 

Rick T

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2019
95
Houston, TX
After watching the above youtube video I decided to take off the front manifold to see what condition the copper end connectors looked like. I was happily surprised. They weren't that bad. I will flush each line then reassemble.

heater.jpg
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
16,589
Not too bad. You can see some effects from the acid, but not horrible.

Periodically, check the cartridges for turquoise color, test the water for copper and pull a bottom bolt from the manifold to check for water in the combustion chamber.
 

Rattus Suffocatus

Silver Supporter
Jun 5, 2019
446
Corona de Tucson, AZ
By the way.. I am going to interject that getting and having an electronic pH meter for cases like this is a good idea. The more expensive ones are better but even the $20 ones are better than a titration test. You can read the whole pH range with them, and even if it's "off" because of chlorine or other impurities it is better than the titration tests in those cases.

I kind of get a kick out of the "you can't interpolate CYA" test results mantra here but it's okay to do that with the pH on titration tests. But I admit, I do it because I want "accurate" CSI calculations.

I usually check my pH with titration because it is faster (you have to calibrate an electronic meter just about every time you use it and assuming it's an automatic temperature compensating one, you also have to let the reading stabilize for awhile.. right now that's over a minute because the water is so cold and the temperature difference from room temperature is great). But done correctly a 7.53 PH reading IS 7.5. On a titration test it's 7.5 ish... might be 7.6 or 7.4... it's helpful at times, especially when you have problems.

And you calibrate it correctly using a 4.0 and a 6.8 pH buffered standard (every time!), and it will read down to nearly zero and and up to nearly 14.

After reading this thread, I am happy that your heater is probably okay.
 

Rick T

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2019
95
Houston, TX
Thanks. I just tried to close up the filter without the cartridges in it just so I could circulate the pool. I tried 5 times but the filter would leak. I think the water spray pattern inside was too different without the cartridges in there. The good news is they are supposed to be here by the end of the day tomorrow.
 

Rick T

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2019
95
Houston, TX
Pool filled, new cartridges installed. No leaks! Now time to get new water numbers right.

FC: .25
CC: .25
ph: 8.0
TA: 190
CYA: <20 (close to 0 with all new water from refill)

water temp 64

So far I added recommended liquid chlorine at 10% of 1 quart and 3 cups.
Will put a couple of 3" tablets in the skimmer to help raise CYA

Next I thought I'd work on getting the ph down a bit with muriatic acid. Or would you guys tackle the TA before the ph?

Thanks.
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
22,422
Laughlin, NV
Unless you run your pump 24 hours per day, do not put trichlor tablets in the skimmer. The acidic stew that creates will damage your skimmer and other equipment.

Keep your pH in the 7’s and the TA will fall on its own.
 
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tim5055

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 11, 2014
10,410
Franklin, NC
Will put a couple of 3" tablets in the skimmer to help raise CYA
City water contains no CYA, so assume "0".

It's going to be a long road to get your CYA up using tabs. In your 18,000 gallon pool each tab will raise CYA by 1.8. You are looking at 17 tabs to get the CYA to 30.
 

Rick T

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2019
95
Houston, TX
Pool filled, new cartridges installed. No leaks! Now time to get new water numbers right.

FC: .25
CC: .25
ph: 8.0
TA: 190
CYA: <20 (close to 0 with all new water from refill)

water temp 64
Water now:

ph: 7.5
TA: 170

I know the TA is still high. Should I address it or just let the pool stabilize for a few days and see if it keeps coming down?

Water is clear and I am currently running the pump about 15 hours a day.
 

Texas Splash

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Rick, it's okay to use-up those remaining pucks. Here's a way I like to breakdown the two big things we watch:
Algae control: That's all about the FC & CYA being balanced as noted on the FC/CYA Chart. Your CYA is a bit low, so you can get-by with a slightly lower FC and pucks (in a floater), but don't let the FC fall too much even in cold water. Never below 2 ppm right now.
Water Conditioning (scale/etching): This is managed by pH, TA, CH, and water temp. I don't see your new CH, but if I assume it's about 250-300, your CSI is at a slightly positive number (balanced) according to the PoolMath tool. So it's okay at the moment. But once your pH climbs-up to 7.8, which it may try to do quickly with the TA elevated, the CSI goes to .37 (potential to scale). When your water temp goes up, it increase CSI even quicker.

I'm saying all of this simply to say use the PoolMath tool and watch all of those indicators. No doubt in the summer the TA will have to be lower or your CSI will climb too fast. I think you will find that as you add muriatic acid to control pH, the TA will slowly drop anyways. If you want the TA to drop quicker right now (say to 100 for example), use enough acid to lower the pH to about 7.2 then aerate to raise the pH without increasing the TA - repeat as necessary. If you wish to simply watch the pH and TA for a day or two, that's fine as well. But if the pH climbs quickly, I would knock the TA down a bit.