I have seen a couple posts made regarding using a Pentair pump with Hayward control. We have recently purchased a Pentair SuperFlo VS and we have an existing Hayward AquaPlus automation system. I also purchased the 6 wire Pentair data cable and a Pentair IntelliComm II. I called Pentair support on 5/18 and the technician told me I did not need the Intellicomm II that the 6 wire data cable could run to each of the relays directly without the Intellicomm II. So, I rewired the data cable as shown on pg 5 of the SuperFlo VS Installation Guide and Users Manual. It seems to work a bit better than when I was trying with the Intellicomm. I can turn the pump off and on with AquaPlus, but the pump does not seem to be coming on with the correct speed as selected. I have speed 1 wired to main relay, speed 2 to Aux 1 and speed 3 to Aux 2. Also, our salt cell does not seem to be reading the salt level correctly (I am assuming that is a result of the pump not running correctly - as the single speed was previously set up in the Timers Menu). I did try to walk through the VSP setup in AquaPlus over the weekend, to get the automation system recognizing that the pump is now a variable speed and that the additional two speeds are controlled through Aux 1 and Aux 2. Not sure if I have that all correct yet. Prior to the reprogramming we were receiving an error code of 22 on the pump. The other question I had was regarding the power wiring of the new VS pump, initially I had it wired to the main relay on the AquaPlus, then I saw on numerous posts and asked during my call with Pentair to find that it needs to be wired direct to the breaker, but when I did that and activated the relay the pump did not turn on, so I put the wiring back as it was, into the main relay, and was able to get the pump to go on. During that change in power wiring we were receiving a error code F on the pump. I currently have the data cable disconnected and I am running the pump via the outside control on the pump itself. I was hoping that you might be able to point me to items to check or resources I could call. We are in Puerto Rico and support and service here can be a real challenge. I had a Pentair authorized dealer come out to install the new equipment and they were kind of dumbfounded as to what had to be done - not instilling my confidence. We had a friend that does a lot of pool maintenance help us and connect the new pump and filter and they are installed well, now it is just a matter of getting the automation system to communicate with the VS pump. Any help is greatly appreciated!
Pentair SuperFlo with Hayward AquaPlus - NEED HELP Integrating
- Thread starter seeitdifferent
- Start date
CJadamec
TFP Expert
The Superflo pump is not a very advanced pump when it comes to external control.
As you have tried to do the external control wire will allow your relay system to pick speeds 1,2,3, or quick clean. When the relay input is sent to the pump the pump will run at the rpm you have programed on the pump for that speed.
The input signal on the data wires going to the pump can needs to be between 5-30volts and it can be either AC or DC voltage.
It sounds like you have gotten the wiring wrong on the relays in your control panel and aren't sending the right input signal to your pump. Can you get a picture of how things are wired inside your control panel?
In terms of how your automation is going to "see" the pump the automation should be programed for a 2 speed or 3 speed pump. Your automation system when set to VS pump is trying to control the pump a different way other than using the relays.
To get true integration between your automation and a VS pump you would need a Hayward pump.
The Pentair IntelliComm II is designed to function with the intelliflo series pumps and will not function with a superflo pump as they have totally different drive electronics.
As you have tried to do the external control wire will allow your relay system to pick speeds 1,2,3, or quick clean. When the relay input is sent to the pump the pump will run at the rpm you have programed on the pump for that speed.
The input signal on the data wires going to the pump can needs to be between 5-30volts and it can be either AC or DC voltage.
It sounds like you have gotten the wiring wrong on the relays in your control panel and aren't sending the right input signal to your pump. Can you get a picture of how things are wired inside your control panel?
In terms of how your automation is going to "see" the pump the automation should be programed for a 2 speed or 3 speed pump. Your automation system when set to VS pump is trying to control the pump a different way other than using the relays.
To get true integration between your automation and a VS pump you would need a Hayward pump.
The Pentair IntelliComm II is designed to function with the intelliflo series pumps and will not function with a superflo pump as they have totally different drive electronics.
sid,
Chuck has pointed you in the right direction... Your system needs to be wired the same as Figure 4 on page 5 of the manual.
What has me worried is that you say that you have the main AC power to the pump connected to "main" relay. If this is the same relay that you have wired for low voltage control, then I can't see how the pump has not been damaged.
If you look at Figure 4 you will notice that the only power applied to the relays is the 5 VDC control signal that comes from the pump itself.
We really need to see a picture of your wiring of the relays and the control cable..
Also... the AC power to the pump should be wired from the pump's GFCI breaker DIRECTLY to the pump.. it should not go through any relays.
Once we have determined the wiring is correct, we can manually make sure the pumps works via the relay inputs and then someone can help program the automation..
Thanks,
Jim R.
Chuck has pointed you in the right direction... Your system needs to be wired the same as Figure 4 on page 5 of the manual.
What has me worried is that you say that you have the main AC power to the pump connected to "main" relay. If this is the same relay that you have wired for low voltage control, then I can't see how the pump has not been damaged.
If you look at Figure 4 you will notice that the only power applied to the relays is the 5 VDC control signal that comes from the pump itself.
We really need to see a picture of your wiring of the relays and the control cable..
Also... the AC power to the pump should be wired from the pump's GFCI breaker DIRECTLY to the pump.. it should not go through any relays.
Once we have determined the wiring is correct, we can manually make sure the pumps works via the relay inputs and then someone can help program the automation..
Thanks,
Jim R.
Thanks guys,
Here is a picture of my set up. I have noted the wiring in the picture itself. Figure 4 is from Pentair Installation Guide.
I am restating the current wiring here as well:
6 Wires From Digital Input (other end is into pump)
Figure 1
Red from 6 wire into Filter Pump red terminal (on top)
Green from 6 wire into Filter Pump black terminal (on top)
Red Jumper from Filter Pump red terminal to Aux 1
Yellow from 6 wire to Aux 1 black terminal
Red Jumper from Filter Pump red terminal to Aux 2
Orange from 6 wire to Aux 2 black terminal
Brown not being used
Black ground to bare screw
Cover Over Relays
Figure 2
Lights has two black wires in both terminals, one to breaker, the other to the light (low voltage)
Pump Power
Figure 3
Red wire is coming from power cord on pump and into Filter Pump terminal
Black wire is into 30A (middle) breaker and then to the Filter Pump terminal (opposite the red wire)
White wire is into neutral bus bar
Green is to ground bus bar
Eric
Here is a picture of my set up. I have noted the wiring in the picture itself. Figure 4 is from Pentair Installation Guide.
I am restating the current wiring here as well:
6 Wires From Digital Input (other end is into pump)
Figure 1
Red from 6 wire into Filter Pump red terminal (on top)
Green from 6 wire into Filter Pump black terminal (on top)
Red Jumper from Filter Pump red terminal to Aux 1
Yellow from 6 wire to Aux 1 black terminal
Red Jumper from Filter Pump red terminal to Aux 2
Orange from 6 wire to Aux 2 black terminal
Brown not being used
Black ground to bare screw
Cover Over Relays
Figure 2
Lights has two black wires in both terminals, one to breaker, the other to the light (low voltage)
Pump Power
Figure 3
Red wire is coming from power cord on pump and into Filter Pump terminal
Black wire is into 30A (middle) breaker and then to the Filter Pump terminal (opposite the red wire)
White wire is into neutral bus bar
Green is to ground bus bar
Eric
sid,
I'm not sure if it is the picture or me, but it appears that you have added your wires to the top (coil side) of the relay instead of the input/output side of the relay...
If this is true, then you have a slight misunderstanding of how relays work...
Figure 4, shows only the input (line) and output (Load) connections... they are on the bottom of the relay where you have the pump connected... and again.. the pump should NOT be connected to any relays.. VS pumps should have constant AC power.
Please let me know if I am just seeing things..
Thanks,
Jim R.
I'm not sure if it is the picture or me, but it appears that you have added your wires to the top (coil side) of the relay instead of the input/output side of the relay...
If this is true, then you have a slight misunderstanding of how relays work...
Figure 4, shows only the input (line) and output (Load) connections... they are on the bottom of the relay where you have the pump connected... and again.. the pump should NOT be connected to any relays.. VS pumps should have constant AC power.
Please let me know if I am just seeing things..
Thanks,
Jim R.
Thanks Jim,
Your eyes are correct and I am very new to all this so "yep" I probably have things connected incorrectly. For pump power - is that supposed to be direct, meaning I would connect the red and black together and not through the relay?
Regarding the 6 wires from data cable - should these all be moved to the set of terminals below? My question would be why are there larger (like 18awg) wires currently into the bottom and the smaller (24awg) coming from the top (as you stated the coil side). I don't know much about how the relays work.
I had the wires on top because I had seen it in a video that I thought was related. Intellicom 2 Intelliflo / Intellipro Controlled From Any System Hayward, Jandy, and older Pentair - YouTube at 6:02
Eric
Your eyes are correct and I am very new to all this so "yep" I probably have things connected incorrectly. For pump power - is that supposed to be direct, meaning I would connect the red and black together and not through the relay?
Regarding the 6 wires from data cable - should these all be moved to the set of terminals below? My question would be why are there larger (like 18awg) wires currently into the bottom and the smaller (24awg) coming from the top (as you stated the coil side). I don't know much about how the relays work.
I had the wires on top because I had seen it in a video that I thought was related. Intellicom 2 Intelliflo / Intellipro Controlled From Any System Hayward, Jandy, and older Pentair - YouTube at 6:02
Eric
CJadamec
TFP Expert
It's going to take me a min to digest what I'm looking at.
In The mean time forget what the intellicom 2 instructions told you. The intellicom does not work with your pump.
With your pump you need to be very careful about what voltage gets put on that data wire. It looks like you came very close to damaging your pump with the input wires.
In The mean time forget what the intellicom 2 instructions told you. The intellicom does not work with your pump.
With your pump you need to be very careful about what voltage gets put on that data wire. It looks like you came very close to damaging your pump with the input wires.
Sid,
The two small wires at the top of the relay provide a small voltage to turn the relay on and off.. These relays are always open and only close when the power is applied to the two little wires at the top...
The relays are normally used for high voltage (120 or 220 VAC) that is why they are so big... We will be using them for only 5 VDC... I'll talk you through relay #1 as shown in Fig 4...
5 VDC comes from the pump through the special control cable on the Red Wire.. The Red wire is initially connected to the Input (line 1) screw on relay #1.. When the relay is energized (turned on) the 5 VDC will come out of relay #1 on the output (Load 1) screw... The Green wire from the cable should be attached to the output (Load 1) of relay #1.. The 5 Volts then goes back through the cable to the pump and tells the pump to run at speed #1 (I believe you initially have to set what speed you want as speed #1 using the pumps menu...)
Notice how the 5 VDC is also jumped to the relay #2 and #3.. The same thing happens with those relays..
The problem is that you cannot use the relays for anything else... It is hard to tell in the pics, but it appears like the Aux 1 relay is being used for your pool lights and Aux 3 for something else???
Once you remove the pump from the Pump/filter relay, the will give you one relay and then it appears that aux 2 will give you a second relay...
Do NOT connect any of the special cable wires to any relay if it has high voltage wires and is being use for anything else...
Just remove the two pump wires from the Pump/Filter relay and wire-nut them together... This should provide constant power to the pump...
Please let me know if this does not make sense..
Thanks,
Jim R.
The two small wires at the top of the relay provide a small voltage to turn the relay on and off.. These relays are always open and only close when the power is applied to the two little wires at the top...
The relays are normally used for high voltage (120 or 220 VAC) that is why they are so big... We will be using them for only 5 VDC... I'll talk you through relay #1 as shown in Fig 4...
5 VDC comes from the pump through the special control cable on the Red Wire.. The Red wire is initially connected to the Input (line 1) screw on relay #1.. When the relay is energized (turned on) the 5 VDC will come out of relay #1 on the output (Load 1) screw... The Green wire from the cable should be attached to the output (Load 1) of relay #1.. The 5 Volts then goes back through the cable to the pump and tells the pump to run at speed #1 (I believe you initially have to set what speed you want as speed #1 using the pumps menu...)
Notice how the 5 VDC is also jumped to the relay #2 and #3.. The same thing happens with those relays..
The problem is that you cannot use the relays for anything else... It is hard to tell in the pics, but it appears like the Aux 1 relay is being used for your pool lights and Aux 3 for something else???
Once you remove the pump from the Pump/filter relay, the will give you one relay and then it appears that aux 2 will give you a second relay...
Do NOT connect any of the special cable wires to any relay if it has high voltage wires and is being use for anything else...
Just remove the two pump wires from the Pump/Filter relay and wire-nut them together... This should provide constant power to the pump...
Please let me know if this does not make sense..
Thanks,
Jim R.
CJadamec
TFP Expert
Jim explained it pretty well.
Page 5 of the pump owners manual actually has a good picture of what the wires to the bottom contacts of the relays should look like.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://pentairpool.com/~/media/websites/pool/downloads/pumps/manuals/superflo_vs_variable_speed_pump_manual_for_model_342001_english.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiMldbvkKzbAhUOr1kKHaJ0BUwQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw295R6ufcpVSr2lasyWJoLI
Page 5 of the pump owners manual actually has a good picture of what the wires to the bottom contacts of the relays should look like.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://pentairpool.com/~/media/websites/pool/downloads/pumps/manuals/superflo_vs_variable_speed_pump_manual_for_model_342001_english.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiMldbvkKzbAhUOr1kKHaJ0BUwQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw295R6ufcpVSr2lasyWJoLI
The system has to know when the pump is on or off. The only way to do this with this pump is to pick two speeds only and connect the higher speed to the pump relay and the lower speed to aux 2 then set the pump type to 2 speed pump and set aux 2 as pump low speed.
Note: There are 4 relays. They are, in order, Pump, Lights, aux 1 and aux 2.
Note: There are 4 relays. They are, in order, Pump, Lights, aux 1 and aux 2.
Thanks James... I don't know enough about the Hayward products... So I assume the Pump/Filter can only be used as the pump/filter relay (makes sense)... On this Hayward unit, is the "Lights" relay restricted to lights only???
This is just one good example of what happens when you try to cross pollinate different brands of products...
I appreciate your help on this one,
Jim R.
It depends on the software revision. Earlier versions had the lights preset and aux 2 would be for low speed.
Newer versions can change the lights relay or the aux 1 relay to pump low speed.
In any case, the logic doesn't understand any more than 2 speeds for the pump unless it's a Hayward variable speed pump.
If you use other relays for speed control, the chlorinator won't work during those times because it doesn't show the pump as being on.
Newer versions can change the lights relay or the aux 1 relay to pump low speed.
In any case, the logic doesn't understand any more than 2 speeds for the pump unless it's a Hayward variable speed pump.
If you use other relays for speed control, the chlorinator won't work during those times because it doesn't show the pump as being on.
CJadamec
TFP Expert
With the logic in the super flo speed control you can get around the limitation that James has mentioned. The speed control for the pump has a priority ordering. What that means is you can send the pump multiple speed signals at the same time or in this case have multiple relays active at the same time. So you can leave the main relay for pump speed one active the whole time you want the pump to run so that the automation knows the pump is running. From there any speed input into the pump that is higher priority will alter the pump speed. The lowest priority speed is #1 the highest priority is Quick clean.
I guess that the question is how many speeds do you really need?
Two should be enough, I would think.
Two should be enough, I would think.
Thanks all for the info,
I am going to move the wiring now. Anything else I need to be aware of? As long as no high voltage (120 / 220) is going to the relay I should not have a problem - correct? There are 4 relays, the first is the pump relay, the second is the lights, and then there are Aux 1 and Aux 2 to the right of the lights. I should work to connect two - correct (a high on main pump relay and low on Aux).
We are in Puerto Rico and our single speed pump had to be replaced as a result of the two hurricanes. We wanted a VSP to save on energy costs and also wanted to go with Hayward, but their VSP would not ship and Pentair's would. So here I am...
Can't thank you guys enough for your help!
Eric
I am going to move the wiring now. Anything else I need to be aware of? As long as no high voltage (120 / 220) is going to the relay I should not have a problem - correct? There are 4 relays, the first is the pump relay, the second is the lights, and then there are Aux 1 and Aux 2 to the right of the lights. I should work to connect two - correct (a high on main pump relay and low on Aux).
We are in Puerto Rico and our single speed pump had to be replaced as a result of the two hurricanes. We wanted a VSP to save on energy costs and also wanted to go with Hayward, but their VSP would not ship and Pentair's would. So here I am...
Can't thank you guys enough for your help!
Eric
CJadamec
TFP Expert
It sounds like you have the right idea. You can always snap a picture of how you have it wired and see if we see anything before you power the pump back up.
Cool,
Here is the photo of the reworked wiring as per our discussion(s) I have also added a surge protector to the pump were I connected the black and red 120 VAC pump connections that were previously on the relay (all 4 wires: 2 black from surge protector and 2 pump power - wire nut together).
Thanks,
Eric
Here is the photo of the reworked wiring as per our discussion(s)
I have also added a surge protector to the pump were I connected the black and red 120 VAC pump connections that were previously on the relay (all 4 wires: 2 black from surge protector and 2 pump power - wire nut together).Thanks,
Eric
Sid,
Looks like that will get you the ability of selecting Speed 1 with the pump/filter relay and Speed 2 using the Aux 2 relay..
You could also wire it into the Aux1 relay if you wanted the ability to have three speeds...
The wiring looks much better this time..
Jim R.
Looks like that will get you the ability of selecting Speed 1 with the pump/filter relay and Speed 2 using the Aux 2 relay..
You could also wire it into the Aux1 relay if you wanted the ability to have three speeds...
The wiring looks much better this time..
Jim R.