Pentair IpH not working

[georgestewart88]

hey all, just found this thread. very helpful! i am experiencing the same issue as to OP. pump runs, when i detach it from the check valve, acid dispenses. the acid level is staying the same week to week so its not entering the pool.

i’m very handy but don’t know how to go about checking the pins. anyone have instructions on what i should take apart?

also is it worth replacing the check valve or should i focus on the pins for now?

thanks

Moved from here.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Calling @Dirk

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[georgestewart88]

including a photo, looks corroded, unsure which parts you would suggest to replace?

 

[Dirk]

Looks like the acid is taking its toll on your IntellipH (IpH). There are several things you can do, and should do (in terms of annual maintenance).

- You need to change the tube in the pump regularly. I think Pentair recommends annually, you might be able to skip a year, but I wouldn't go any more than that. If it has turned brown, or is in any way stiff, it's done. While you might get acid out of the tube while it's disconnected from the injector, that doesn't necessarily mean there is a strong enough pump action to overcome the injector and the pressure in the pool plumbing.

- There are parts in the injector that might be getting clogged up. It's possible to disassemble it, but it might not go back together all that well. Mine didn't. And while there are replaceable parts inside the injector, I doubt you'd be able to find them anywhere. Pentair doesn't sell them. Just replace the injector, they're available on Amazon or from Pentair. If that doesn't solve your problem, it's not money wasted, because if you don't need a new one now, you will eventually. Keeping an extra "in stock" is prudent. I replaced mine and bought two, so I have a spare. Given today's supply chain issues, and ever rising costs, buying an extra is just good planning.

- While looking at the IpH from the side the pump is on, there are two fittings coming out of the tank. The one on the left feeds the pump, the other one is a vent. Did you connect that to anything? If not, you should. Here's why:

The acid tank is supposed to be air tight. So as acid is drawn from the tank, you need air to be able to enter the tank to displace the acid leaving it. Same goes for temperature changes throughout the day and night: as the air in the tank heats and cools, the tank needs to breathe. And that air coming and going is provided by the vent. The problem with that is, as the tank expels air, it's also expelling acid fumes, and those fumes can chew up any metal in the vicinity of the tank. The corrosion you're getting on those screws is likely from acid fumes. But they won't stop there, those fumes can and will attack any other metal nearby, even stainless steel, like your other pool gear or your window frames or fence hardware, etc.

The solution is two-fold:

- Check the large o-ring of the IpH tank lid. Be sure it had no nicks or cracks, and give it a good coating of o-ring lube (the same stuff you use on your pump's lid o-ring or your cartridge filter's o-ring if you have one of those.

- Then get yourself some 1/4" acid-resistant tubing (that should have come with the IpH). You can use the same tubing the IpH provided to attach the IpH pump to the injector, if there is any left, or grab some from on-line or at a big-box store. Then you connect that tube to the IpH vent, and run it as far away from the IpH, your pad, and any other metal, as you can get. Try to slope it down from the IpH, and then turn the end of it down, too. It'll still pass air, but the idea is to allow any condensation to be able to drain out, and pointing the end down will keep it from filling with sprinkler water or rain.

If that doesn't solve the acid dispensing, let me know.

Lastly, Pentair recommends diluting the acid in the tank. I cut 31% acid in half, adding 1-to-1 water and acid. Or you can just buy the 14% acid. That helps minimize the corrosion and helps with the longevity of all the parts susceptible to acid. If you're running 31% acid in the tank, that's asking for trouble.

Plus, if your IpH goes haywire and pumps the entire contents of the tank into your pool, a diluted mixture won't cause as much havoc to your pool or swimmers, so it's an additional safeguard not to use full strength acid in the tank.

 

[georgestewart88]

thank you for the detailed response, i will follow your course of action and report back with the results. can you link me to the parts you suggested? seems like i need the following (or correct me if i’m wrong)
- vent tube (i don’t have one on there)
- new injector
- pump tube?

i’ll check the gaskets in the morning, we dilute the acid.

 

[Dirk]

Not endorsing these particular parts sites. But these are the parts, shop around for best price with an eye for a legit dealer. There are some out there that are scams.

Injector:

Pentair Injection Check Valve 522513Z | PoolSupply4Less

Pentair 522513Z Injection Check Valve for Chemical Feeders. Free Shipping.

www.poolsupply4less.com

Pump tubes:

Pentair Pump Head Tube Repl, Pent IntellipH,Stennenr Blue Pump, 2 Pk | 522480

Pentair 522480 Pump Head Tube Repl, Pent IntellipH,Stennenr Blue Pump, 2 Pk

www.wildwestpoolsupplies.com

Or wheel and tubes (if your wheel looks bad):

Pentair Intelliph Pump Repair Kit, 522386

Pentair Intelliph Controllers Tank Mounted Pump Repair Kit, 522386 (PAC-451-2386)

www.eztestpools.com

Acid tube:

Pentair 522384 Tubing for IntellipH Controllers Chemical Injection

The Pentair 522384 Tubing for IntellipH Controllers Chemical Injection is an excellent choice for your needs! Get it today at Pool Warehouse!

www.poolwarehouse.com

Some of the prices, especially the acid tube, are koo-koo. I would stick to Pentair parts for the injector and pump components (shop for best price), though there may be third party stuff if you want to roll the dice and save some money. The 1/4" acid tube doesn't need to be Pentair, you should be able to find that much cheaper. Just be sure its made of a material that can withstand Muriatic acid.

There are a few models of IntellipH pumps floating around. If you have a newer IpH, the above parts are probably the right ones. But be sure to deal with a supplier that will accept returns should you order the wrong part.

 

[Dirk]

Here's a great thread. Bookmark it for future reference. About half way down there's a few paragraphs about the two different pumps to watch out for.

Pentair Intelliph - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[georgestewart88]

thanks, resealed the o ring and attached extra hose to the output valve and have it going away from equipment

would this check valve work?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HEASXFI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Dirk]

would this check valve work?

Sorry, I wouldn't know. You might call Stenner support and ask. I've only used Pentair injectors.

I think that Stenner injector uses a duckbill backflow preventer. They seem to be a user-replaceable part. The Pentair injector uses a floating ball for backflow prevention (similar to how those kids' snorkels work with the ping-pong ball float), which as I mentioned is not likely user replaceable. So if you can get the Stenner to work, perhaps there would be some advantage to that one. Ha, I wouldn't discourage you from being our guinea pig experimenting!

The ball in the Pentair injector seats against an o-ring to keep pool water from back flowing into the IntellipH. It's the o-ring that decays over time, not the ball or any of the other injector components, which are all some sort of plastic.

I don't know exactly how a Stenner duck-bill works. I'm guessing it has some sort of opposing flexible flaps that close together under pressure (like a duck's bill). I imagine that's the part that is susceptible to acid.

 

[georgestewart88]

update! that valve and a new hose worked! was perplexed for a bit as i had the hose backwards, weird design decision. anyhoo, what part of the check valve will fail? could you link me? curious and planning for future needs thanks again!

 

[Dirk]

update! that valve and a new hose worked! was perplexed for a bit as i had the hose backwards, weird design decision. anyhoo, what part of the check valve will fail? could you link me? curious and planning for future needs thanks again!

Sorry, ya lost me.

What valve and which hose?

When you ask "what part of the check valve will fail" are you asking about Pentair's injector (it has an internal check valve of sorts)? Or something else? I describe the Pentair injector failure above (#9).

What do you want a link to?

 

[elwood58]

I have to replace the check valve where my hose enters the plumbing every year. I buy mine via Amazon. I am in the scorching desert southwest, which might make a difference.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072KRTHRX?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

 

[Dirk]

I have to replace the check valve where my hose enters the plumbing every year. I buy mine via Amazon. I am in the scorching desert southwest, which might make a difference.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072KRTHRX?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

What poops out? Inside or outside? I paint mine like I paint the rest of the plumbing and components.

 

[georgestewart88]

Sorry, ya lost me.

What valve and which hose?

When you ask "what part of the check valve will fail" are you asking about Pentair's injector (it has an internal check valve of sorts)? Or something else? I describe the Pentair injector failure above (#9).

What do you want a link to?

i had the hose on the pump inverted, it was sucking from the check valve at the pool and not dispensing anything, so i reverted it. the pump now runs in the direction from the intake to the check valve.

after replacing the hose on the pump and the check valve, i am still not seeing the level drop. i confirmed that with a replaced hose, the acid comes out before the check valve...

i will run longer but i am not sure what else it could be at this point.

this is the valve i purchased https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HEATGKY?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

 

[Turbo1Ton]

Did you also replace the pump tube and rollers? If the tube is old, then I can see it being able to create enough flow when not under pressure, but trying to build pressure to inject into the pool line it may not work.

I installed a flow meter (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HEAT2GM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) on my IpH on the side of the pump mount. removed the pump motor from the housing to make sure there was clearance to install the screws. This way I can see if I have positive flow when it is injecting. If I have flow, it has to be going somewhere, and unless its leaking out of the check valve, the assumption is it is going through the check into the pool.

You can kind of make out the flow meter on the right side of the pump head, in this photo.





--Jeff

 

[georgestewart88]

yes, by hose, i meant tube. it’s brand new. rollers are dirty but adding another photo to the one at the top of the page. the pins appear to be aligned.
update : i took the check valve off of the pool plumbing and plugged the pool plumbing. then put the new check valve from pump in a cup, it is not dispensing out of the new check valve when the pump runs :/

 

[Turbo1Ton]

I just installed that same check valve (Stenner UCDBINJ) this weekend, and mine is dispensing appropriately, so I believe that the check valve is likely not the culprit, but that could be suspect until everything else can be ruled out.

It is a relatively simple system, and you've replaced the wear items so now it is just a matter of working through the system to find out what the hang up is.

I would start at the beginning of the system and check everything.
1. is the suction line in place in the tank?
2. if the above is true, is it clear of any debris?
3. if the above is true, is it connected to the pump tube appropriately? Ensure there are no kinks in the tubing between the suction port on the tank and the pump tube inlet.
4. if the above is true, is the pump tube installed correctly?
5. if the above is true, can you get flow directly out of the pump tube? Ensure the pump rollers are moving appropriately in a CCW direction (when facing the pump).
6. if the above is true, can you get flow directly from the hose between the pump tube and check valve? Ensure there are no kinks in the tubing between the pump tube outlet and check valve.
7. if the above is true, can you get flow through the check valve? (You've checked this one but started there, so need to work backwards through the system to eliminate everything else)

Please remember you are working with acid so make sure you are using acid resistant containers to collect the pump discharge into, and that you are using appropriate PPE and taking precautions as necessary to avoid damaging any equipment or yourself from exposure to the acid.

--Jeff

 

[Dirk]

Jeff has made you a good list. Here's a few things for your troubleshooting.

There is a tube that is located inside the tank, connected to the fitting on the left side. That tube has a small filter on it. The filter could be clogged. Unfortunately, I think the only way to get at it is to disassemble the tank. Maybe you could see if the entire fitting could unscrew, and the tube and filter could be accessed that way. But either way, that's something to check at some point.

And/or:

You could pull the tube that feeds the pump off of that tank fitting and put that end in a container of water. Also remove the injector. Then run the pump with the manual setting on the controller. That would split your troubleshoot in half. If the water makes it through, then it's not the filter in the tank. If it doesn't then you'll need to clear the filter.

You can do some of the other steps Jeff has recommended using water instead of acid. Though be careful, you should still treat the water as acid, since there will be some present for some number of cycles.

 

[Dirk]

The pump rollers aren't just dirty, they look corroded. I don't know offhand if they're supposed to be able to spin. I would guess they do. Check if they can. Either clean or replace that part, even if that's not the problem.

 

[Dirk]

Did you also replace the pump tube and rollers? If the tube is old, then I can see it being able to create enough flow when not under pressure, but trying to build pressure to inject into the pool line it may not work.

Yep, that was my theory, too ( #4). Could be the rotor. Could be the motor? Maybe it runs and turns the rotor, but not at a rate that generates enough pumping action.

i had the hose on the pump inverted, it was sucking from the check valve at the pool and not dispensing anything, so i reverted it. the pump now runs in the direction from the intake to the check valve.

Huh? Now which "hose" are you referring to? Do you mean you had the two tubes that enter the pump housing reversed? Perhaps you should post a picture taken from just in front of the IpH, so that we can see all the tubes.

after replacing the hose on the pump and the check valve, i am still not seeing the level drop.

The IpH can pump enough acid in the course of a few days, depending on your runtime, to significantly change your pH. But it won't happen in a couple of IpH pump cycles.

So while you work through the IpH troubleshooting, lets also take a look at some other factors:

- What is your current pH?

- Are you adding acid yourself to the pool to maintain the pH while you work on the IpH? If so, at what rate (how much, how often)?

- What number of hours are the SWG and IpH engaged each day?

- What is the IpH output setting (percent)?

- What is the SWG output setting?

- Are you getting all green lights on the SWG?

Know that if the SWG is not producing chlorine for any reason, either because of the water temperature, or salt level, or if it's output is set to zero, the IpH will not dispense acid. They both have to be on and running and functioning normally for acid to inject. The SWG can be "in the green" but if set to 0% output the IpH will not dispense (Pentair claims that is some sort of safety feature).

And acid only dispenses once an hour, so you have to run the main pump (and SWG and IpH) for many hours each day for the IpH to make a difference.