Pentair intellicenter WiFi vs 900mHz Interface Wireless link

[n8mojo]

Hello TFP,

I'm brand new to this forum, and a first time new pool owner (in startup phase now). I recently completed a 20k gallon pool/spa owner-build and hired a company to help with startup. Everyone is busy and not feeling like I'm getting altogether honest answers to my questions -- stumbled upon TFP seems to be a huge resource!

I have a lot of questions, but my first is on my intellicenter network setup. Normally, I would have assumed that I would just configure WiFi on the panel and there was a built-in wireless receiver. Again, while waiting very patiently on my startup company to program this thing, I just decided to upgrade the firmware and get it connected so I dont have to keep going to the panel. I got internet access using the "Screenlogic Interface Wireless Link" hooked up in my house through ethernet. That seems to effectively simulate an ethernet connection at the panel.

Are there two options to connecting to internet? The method I'm using, and WiFi? I want a second opinion on this, because I feel my equipment/set startup company will tell me what is easiest for them.

If I try to connect to WiFi, I get an error that it can't communicate with the WiFi device -- that's why I actually ended up hooking up the wireless link.

Is there a general preference to this? Depends on wifi signal? Do I need a WiFi module if I want to use WiFi?

Thanks,
Nate

 

[ajw22]

Something is confused.

The IntelliCenter does not use ScreenLogic.

The EasyTouch needs ScreenLogic for online communication.

The IntelliCenter has built in network communication. It has a RJ45 jack to connect directly to your network using a cable. And Pentair includes a WiFi bridge if you want to connect the IntelliCenter wireless.

So can you clarify what you have?

 

[n8mojo]

That's what confused me. This screenlogic interface wireless link product was given to me by the equipment setters, so I assumed this came with the Intellicenter.

The product I plugged into our home router inside is this: https://www.pentair.com/content/dam...enter/high-power-wireless-link-kit-manual.pdf

When I plug that in, the Intellicenter picks up an internal IP address. This is not the same as WiFi, but a radio signal.

I only used this because I couldn't hook up to the WiFi. It reports an ERROR, cannot connect to WiFi transmitter.

I cannot easily run an RJ45 ethernet cable to the panel, so I have to use wireless.

 

[ajw22]

The product I plugged into our home router inside is this: https://www.pentair.com/content/dam...enter/high-power-wireless-link-kit-manual.pdf

That is the wireless bridge that puts the IntelliCenter on your network.

When I plug that in, the Intellicenter picks up an internal IP address. This is not the same as WiFi, but a radio signal.

Correct.

In early models of the IntelliCenter Pentair supplied a WiFi bridge connection. You got the newer connection kit that uses 900mhz.

I cannot easily run an RJ45 ethernet cable to the panel, so I have to use wireless.

So with the IP address the IntelliCenter is on your network and should be able to connect out to the Pentair servers.

You need to follow the Pentair registration process on the IntelliCenter control panel.

 

[n8mojo]

It sounds like my installer did not hook up the wireless bridge. Maybe this bridge listed in this picture: Pentair IntelliCenter Installation Questions/Issues

I assume the wifi bridge comes with the intellicenter as standard?

 

[n8mojo]

Ah. I sent the above reply at the same time you responded.

So then, it seems like 900mhz is preferred over the Wifi--- and my model may not come with a WiFI bridge anyways? In either case, the only option I have is to use the 900mhz radio wireless bridge.

Is the 900mhz radio signal considered better due to wireless performance?

On a side note, the app constantly loses connection. Not sure if that's related to the radio signal, or just a crappy IOS app.

 

[ajw22]

So then, it seems like 900mhz is preferred over the Wifi--- and my model may not come with a WiFI bridge anyways? In either case, the only option I have is to use the 900mhz radio wireless bridge.

The new “High Power Wireless Link Kit,” replaced the EnGenius WiFi Link Kit (Primary Client Bridge) (P/N 522475Z).[3] These new link kits (523557) began shipping with newer IntelliCenter bundled kits, January 30, 2021. The new kits have two (2) transceivers. One transceiver connects to the user’s router and the other connects to the IntelliCenter. The following is reported:

• Connection range is significantly better.
• Establishes a proprietary secure bridge between the two transceivers which automatically negotiates the connection.
• Allows for auto configuration and formatting (plug and play).

NOTICE - ALL INTELLICENTER USERS

@MyAZPool Plenty of minor issues but I don't want to drown out the only one I really care about and the biggest broken promise / false advertising / confidence killer... RS485 Control of Intellivalves If I had 10 votes I would use them all on this issue. Come on now Pentair, no more excuses...

www.troublefreepool.com

Is the 900mhz radio signal considered better due to wireless performance?

Pentair has a lot of complaints about range with the EnGenius WiFi Link Kit.

If you don't like the Pentair 900mhz bridge you can buy any WiFi bridge and plug it into the IntelliCenter RJ45 to connect to your network.

On a side note, the app constantly loses connection. Not sure if that's related to the radio signal, or just a crappy IOS app.

The app on your phone does not connect directly to the IntelliCenter. The app connects to a Pentair server in the cloud which relays commands to your IntelliCenter box. So your IntelliCEnter box needs to be logged into the Pentair cloud server.

Are you using IntelliCenter 1.064 Firmware and New Mobile App IntelliCenter2?

IntelliCenter 1.064 Firmware and New Mobile App IntelliCenter2

Just saw a new FW post on Pentair's web site. I updated and got the new app (IntelliCenter 2). So far so good, update was a breeze (had to use USB). I can report at least I can change schedules without the app crashing. Anyone else try this yet...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[n8mojo]

Are you using IntelliCenter 1.064 Firmware and New Mobile App IntelliCenter2?

Yes, first thing I did was update to 1.064 and started with the Intellicenter2 iOS

Within the app, I do have the option to "connect local" which lists the IP address in my private IP range 10.0.0.0/24. I thought that might've been a local connection option within my private subnet, but perhaps "local" is a misnomer.

Either way, both Local and Remote logins lose connection regularly. Error in app described something along the lines of "lost connection"... frustrating because the screen gives you postive feedback, then loses connection 20-30 seconds later. So you have to double check your setting actual stuck.

If you don't like the Pentair 900mhz bridge you can buy any WiFi bridge and plug it into the IntelliCenter RJ45 to connect to your network.

Got it. But... based off the other feedback, it doesn't seem like WiFi offers a specific advantage. I'll stick with this, and this confirms that this is the correct way to connect the panel. If the issue continues, I'll try a 3rd party wifi bridge.

 

[rstrouse]

Actually local is not a misnomer. IntelliCenter stands up a server on the Outdoor Control Panel (OCP) that is truly local and on the local network. For its relay functions in the cloud, a socket is established to relay the information from the local server to the gateway proxy in the cloud. In both cases a TCP over Ethernet connection must be established to the OCP. This can be either Wifi or a direct hardwired Ethernet LAN connection. All the wireless bridge or the long range adapter is doing is connecting the OCP to your LAN via Ethernet.

So there is no difference between a Wifi connection to IntelliCenter vs a hardwired LAN connection except that Wifi can have spotty connectivity. In the case of the original EnStupid adapter it had issues renegotiating after a connection was interrupted. It is just a consumer device that can be used to connect a wired network device to a wireless network that overpromised and underdelivered. As you can tell I am not a fan of it and the best place to install one of these is in your garage tucked away in the bottom of a cardboard box used for spare network components. That is the least frustrating installation of it and it will improve your language.

Bear in mind your pool equipment is typically installed in a location that has little or no Wifi connectivity. The path from your Wifi antenna doesn't like it when you travel through walls embedded with chicken wire or through that SUV parked in the garage. Honestly, these days a wired Ethernet connection should be standard on a pool pad. For that matter it should be in garages as well. We are dealing regulated consumer radio so the range and reliability is dramatically reduced when you try to travel through walls, refrigerators, cars, stucco, or metal siding.

If you are losing connection consistently, improving the signal between the OCP and your network will likely alleviate the drops. In an effort to improve this connection, Pentair began shipping a point-to-point wireless bridge that has better reliability and greater range. The primary difference from EnStupid is that the transceiver radios are matched to communicate with each other. This both limits the traffic over the radio and improves the reliability because the frequency can be reduced and the antenna power can be increased. Hence the improvement at the outer reaches of the network. Bear in mind this is not a proprietary tech device and any bridge will do. Heck you can get versions of these that will reliably link to equipment that is miles away if you don't mind having to drive to your pool.

Pentair was also smart enough not to include a wireless connection on the motherboard. Imagine how effective that would be inside a metal box. Even with an external antennal the chances of success would be terrible given all the signal noise on the pad. And kudos to them for not foisting a proprietary comms device on its users this time around.

Where this differs from the ScreenLogic implementation for EasyTouch and IntelliTouch is that the socket server is located on the bridge hardware (ScreenLogic Adapter) and connected to RS485 over radio. This adapter then connects to the local LAN and relays to the cloud. With IntelliCenter, Pentair has simply eliminated the need for external proprietary hardware. The capabilities of the processor on the main board have been dramatically improved. It is also using some of the most current SoCs for Ethernet connectivity. The ScreenLogic Adapter is simply a wireless RS485 transceiver with a web socket server running on it. Unfortunately, its firmware makes it proprietary.

 

[ajw22]

Within the app, I do have the option to "connect local" which lists the IP address in my private IP range 10.0.0.0/24. I thought that might've been a local connection option within my private subnet, but perhaps "local" is a misnomer.

Yup, I forgot it offers that local option that works when the app is connected to the same network as the Intellicenter panel.

 

[n8mojo]

Actually local is not a misnomer. IntelliCenter stands up a server on the Outdoor Control Panel (OCP) that is truly local and on the local network. For its relay functions in the cloud, a socket is established to relay the information from the local server to the gateway proxy in the cloud. In both cases a TCP over Ethernet connection must be established to the OCP. This can be either Wifi or a direct hardwired Ethernet LAN connection. All the wireless bridge or the long range adapter is doing is connecting the OCP to your LAN via Ethernet.

So there is no difference between a Wifi connection to IntelliCenter vs a hardwired LAN connection except that Wifi can have spotty connectivity. In the case of the original EnStupid adapter it had issues renegotiating after a connection was interrupted. It is just a consumer device that can be used to connect a wired network device to a wireless network that overpromised and underdelivered. As you can tell I am not a fan of it and the best place to install one of these is in your garage tucked away in the bottom of a cardboard box used for spare network components. That is the least frustrating installation of it and it will improve your language.

Bear in mind your pool equipment is typically installed in a location that has little or no Wifi connectivity. The path from your Wifi antenna doesn't like it when you travel through walls embedded with chicken wire or through that SUV parked in the garage. Honestly, these days a wired Ethernet connection should be standard on a pool pad. For that matter it should be in garages as well. We are dealing regulated consumer radio so the range and reliability is dramatically reduced when you try to travel through walls, refrigerators, cars, stucco, or metal siding.

If you are losing connection consistently, improving the signal between the OCP and your network will likely alleviate the drops. In an effort to improve this connection, Pentair began shipping a point-to-point wireless bridge that has better reliability and greater range. The primary difference from EnStupid is that the transceiver radios are matched to communicate with each other. This both limits the traffic over the radio and improves the reliability because the frequency can be reduced and the antenna power can be increased. Hence the improvement at the outer reaches of the network. Bear in mind this is not a proprietary tech device and any bridge will do. Heck you can get versions of these that will reliably link to equipment that is miles away if you don't mind having to drive to your pool.

Pentair was also smart enough not to include a wireless connection on the motherboard. Imagine how effective that would be inside a metal box. Even with an external antennal the chances of success would be terrible given all the signal noise on the pad. And kudos to them for not foisting a proprietary comms device on its users this time around.

Where this differs from the ScreenLogic implementation for EasyTouch and IntelliTouch is that the socket server is located on the bridge hardware (ScreenLogic Adapter) and connected to RS485 over radio. This adapter then connects to the local LAN and relays to the cloud. With IntelliCenter, Pentair has simply eliminated the need for external proprietary hardware. The capabilities of the processor on the main board have been dramatically improved. It is also using some of the most current SoCs for Ethernet connectivity. The ScreenLogic Adapter is simply a wireless RS485 transceiver with a web socket server running on it. Unfortunately, its firmware makes it proprietary.

Thanks for this added clarification on the behavior of the IntelliCenter and the local server gateway. That does make sense considering the local IP address it is providing feedback on.

As an aside, I understood Pentair to be the best equipment overall for residential/consumer grade. I will say that their application and remote app, while functional, have a lot of room for improvement. Seems pretty lackluster for being called an "Intellicenter"

I may try extend the 900mhz transmitter closer to the panel, but that requires running cat6 through some walls/garage/etc. I may save that for a rainy day.

Thank you everyone for this clarification. I feel settled in the current setup for now.

 

[n8mojo]

BTW... I agree with the comment that rstrouse shared about wiring panels with CAT6 cable as a standard. I'm now kicking myself having heard this point, post-install. I would've been happy to run another 1/2" conduit to in the same trench to accept a data cable. The trenches all terminated at my house for electric/gas service, so it would've been trivial to run the rest of the line. In fact, it might've been nice to also add an AP bridge in the yard for other wireless devices.

 

[ajw22]

BTW... I agree with the comment that rstrouse shared about wiring panels with CAT6 cable as a standard.

Your OCP can pickup electrical surges from lightning strikes near your home. Every year we see outdoor panels and pool equipment damaged by storms.

A wireless connection air gaps the OCP from your network,

The Cat5/6 connection can feed a lightning surge into your home network and blow out other equipment. We have members where that has happened and who have gone back to a wireless connection to protect their home network equipment with the air gap.

If you are in an area prone to thunderstorms I would try wireless first and only do a hard wired connection from the OCP into the house as a last resort.

 

[rstrouse]

Being in the Sac area as am I you have little to worry about with lightning strikes. Its a lot like your chances of being struck by lightning it happens but it is extremely rare. I have played around with all of the major vendor offerings. While they all have warts, I'll stack IntelliCenter at the top against all of them. That being said the weakest link in pool automation is that Wifi hop.

 

[dfwnoob]

Wired beats wireless 10 out of 10 times a day. WiFi IoT devices have notorously crummy (read: cheapest possible) wireless chipsets and the last thing I want to deal with is troubleshooting flaky connectivity. If you're truly worried about lightning surges, get an ethernet SPD and put it on the line back to the router. They're like $30.

I used to do structured cabling for a living and we would desperately try to talk customers out of wireless networking wherever it was practical, because inevitably we would be out there 3 months later on a service call troubleshooting inconsistent connectivity. And this is on enterprise grade Aruba/HP access points with expensive, high quality endpoint devices.. let alone the low end consumer stuff on an ISP-provided modem/router/access point/toaster combination.