Pentair EasyTouch Communicates with Intelliflo but Cannot Control It

[patterrr]

I have read so many threads on similar topics but haven't found another with my particular issue and solution... The root issue is that my Intelliflo pump hasn't been running the last several days. Further information:

1) During the scheduled run time, or if I press the F button, the SWG and the Heater are commanded on, and usually the pump would also start, but it is not starting.

2) The pump says "DISPLAY Not Active!", Screen Logic works to control the system, and if I change my SWG percentage, I see the LEDs on it change. That tells me that the RS-485 link is working between everything, apparently including the pump.

3) If I put the EasyTouch into Service mode, then the pump display changes to 0 RPM. I can then press the Start/Stop button and the amber LED above the button lights and the pump runs at the command RPM (after priming).

4) When not in Service mode, while the pump says "DISPLAY Not Active!", and the pump is not being commanded, the amber LED above the Start/Stop button is off. However, if I press "F" to turn on the pump, the amber LED above the Start / Stop button lights. But pump does not start.

5) When the pump should be running (but is not), on the EasyTouch, Settings -> IntelliFlo -> Pump #1 has "Pump Type: VSF", "Flows/Speeds" reads back 2600, and "Status" Reads back 0 GPM, 0 RPM, and Status: Normal, and ScreenLogic display No System Alerts. If I power the system down, unplug the RS-485 cable from the pump, and power back up, the EasyTouch shows a Comm error rather than Normal, and ScreenLogic also shows the same error under System Alerts. This further tells me that the RS-485 link must be working.

I have done a full power cycle using the breaker of the Intelliflo and EasyTouch, a few times. I leave it off for several minutes for everything to discharge. I have also tried to reset button on the EasyTouch. For now, the only way to run the system is to keep the RS-485 cable unplugged from the pump, and then when the EasyTouch wants the pump to run, I go and manually turn it on using the pump's onboard controls. Hoping that the flow sensor for my SWG and heater don't fail, because that's the only thing keeping them from turning on if I forget to manually turn the pump on.

Here are a few pictures from ScreenLogic, in case @Jimrahbe they are useful



Thank you, Ryan

 

[ajw22]

What model number IntelliFlo pump do you have?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Ryan,

I do not see anything wrong with your set up and agree that your pump should be running, but obviously it is not.

The first thing to do is check the Firmware in your pump's control head. In the Service mode, and using the pump's display, find the F/W version that is currently in the pump.. If it is 3.03 or 3.04, then Pentair will have to come out and update it.

Some thoughts...

One problem with ScreenLogic is that it will show old data until it is replaced.. So, just because it shows something, does not mean it is true, unless you can get it to change..

It does sound like your RS-485 com chips are working. But, the com port has to work both ways.. Transmit and Receive. As a test, use ScreenLogic to turn on a pool light, ensure ScreenLogic show green or on for the light. Then go out and visually conform the light is on. Then use the EasyTouch's buttons to turn off the light, confirm the light is off, and then check ScreenLogic and confirm that the light now shows being off.

It appears to me that your pump, or the com cable, is the problem. I like to see the pump's com cable having its own connector and connected to the SWCG's surge card on the back wall of the EasyTouch. When you cram too many wires into a single connector, it is possible that one of them will not be making a good contact.

We have also seen corrosion at the connection between the pump and the com cable. In a couple of cases the pins were corroded away. You have to inspect both the pins in the cable and the pins in the pump's control head.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[patterrr]

@ajw22 Our pump is model number 011018. I think that's the original IntelliFlo, it was installed at the end of 2015.

@Jimrahbe How exactly do I check the firmware on the pump? I went through all the menu items under settings, but couldn't find anything to indicate firmware revision. I've searched the web but cannot find instructions. Is it possible that this old pump doesn't have the ability to display it?

Thanks for the suggestions. Feedback on each:
1) Confirmed bidirectional communications with ScreenLogic; the light test you suggested, as well as changing the pool temperature on Screenlogic, seeing it change on the EasyTouch panel, changing it to another value on the EasyTouch panel, and seeing it changing to that value on the ScreenLogic a moment later.

2) Here's the expansion board in the back of the panel:

The four wires on the bottom left go to the EasyTouch main board, the two on the bottom go to the pump, and the four on the bottom right go to the ScreenLogic. and of course the four on the upper left to the SWG. The SWG, pump, and ScreenLogic are the only items on the EasyTouch RS-485 bus. I removed and re-inserted the grn/yel wires going into J1 / COM2; they were not corroded and doing so did not make a difference.

3) Here are the pins on the pump and cable sides. They look very shiny to me. They are in our basement, so have never gotten wet.




The big question I have is why does the pump only have RS485+ and RS485-, but not a ground signal? RS-485 requires a ground reference, as the common mode voltage requirement is -7V to +12V with respect to ground. Is the system using Earth ground for that reference? That is not good design practice, and I'm wondering if a common mode voltage issue has broken the link / damaged a transceiver as transients could occur on Earth ground. I should note that I've noticed recently that the pump often stays on "DISPLAY Not Active" even when the EasyTouch is put into service mode, so I wonder if there is a comm error occurring. But at that time the pump was still being controlled as it should and no comm error was being reported. I am still finding that it does this about half the time I go into Service Mode.

One other thing I should mention, is I think a few days before this issue started (not exactly sure when the pump stopped running), the valve actuator that selects between pool drain and spa drain stopped working. I checked the voltages and microswitches in it and everything seemed fine so I couldn't figure it out. It then inexplicably started working again later that day. And then today we put it in Spa mode and the return valve actuator stopped working! It has not yet started working. I will likely start another thread to debug the actuator problems as I've tried everything I can think of, but wanted to mention that here in case it could somehow be related. We've had minimal problems in the last 8 years with the pool system with the only issue before now being our wireless remote failing last year, so it does seem odd that we'd have three seemingly unrelated failures in a week so wondering if they're somehow related but can't imagine how.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Ryan,

I have no idea why the pump uses just two of the four wires, but I can say that there are thousands of them using the two wire cable and they all work just fine..

There is usually a delay between going into the Service mode and when the "Display not Active" screen changes to the RPM screen. I have never timed it, but I guess it is about 30 seconds to a minute.

The pump F/W issue is on newer IntelliFlo pumps..

I doubt the failure of one actuator is the cause of your com port issue.. If it were a power supply issue then I would think none of the actuators would work.

Since you have the 011018 which is a VS pump, why do you have the pump type set to VSF????

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[patterrr]

Jim, thanks for the quick and insightful response! You fixed my problem!!

There is usually a delay between going into the Service mode and when the "Display not Active" screen changes to the RPM screen. I have never timed it, but I guess it is about 30 seconds to a minute.

In all these years I didn't realize that! When I say it doesn't change from "Display not Active" half the time, apparently that meant that it didn't change within my period of patience half the time. I just tried several times, and it does always change if I wait long enough! Great to know I just need to be more patience.

Since you have the 011018 which is a VS pump, why do you have the pump type set to VSF????

Good question! I'm guessing that the installer chose that years ago when they installed the system and I've never questioned it. TBH I'm not sure what the difference is between VS and VSF. But I changed it to VS, and now it works! I don't think there's any way that it accidentally got set from VS to VSF, causing the pump to stop functioning, because 1) I'm the only one who messes with the control panel and I know I didn't do it, and 2) when I switched from VSF to VS just now, it deleted all my pump speeds so now I need to program them back in; so it would have been very noticeable if the change was made and those were wiped out in the past.

Thanks again! I'll add that to the long list of problems you've fixed for me Jim, I really appreciate you!

Now off to the valve actuators... I'll do a bunch of reading forums over the next few days and start a thread with further information if I can't figure it out.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Ryan,

I am a little puzzled myself, as I have never seen this in the past..

It is true, if you change the pump type you wipe out all the speeds, so it is impossible not to know that it changed...

Glad it is working for you..

Jim R.

 

[mknauss]

Jim, thanks for the quick and insightful response! You fixed my problem!!

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[Jimrahbe]

Ryan,

This is the only place I have ever worked where I pay them to let me 'work' here...


Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[patterrr]

This is the only place I have ever worked where I pay them to let me 'work' here...

I think you need a new job! But I'm glad this is what you choose.

@mknauss I clicked the link you gave to make a donation, but it just took me to the TFP hompage. So then I click "Support TFP" on the left, but that just re-directs to the homepage as well. Any ideas?

 

[mknauss]

Sorry about that. If you clear the cache of your browser, the links should work.