PB says Intelliflo VSF is maxed out at 75 gpm. Need some guidance

brandon#

Member
May 23, 2020
12
Austin, TX
Added a couple pictures so everyone can see the progress.

Here is everything plumbed up to the VSF pump currently: (all of this is plumbed to go through the C&C 320 filter, IC40 and ultratemp (although ultratemp has a bypass)

1) Slide-2" line (125-150 gpm requirement)
2) Pentair Magic Falls -2" line to feed 2-12" arc sheets (~10gpm each) on the small columns that will be on the sides on the tanning ledge
3) Pool return-1.5" line 3- 1.5" return jets (? gpm)
4) Tanning ledge-1.5" line 2- return jets (? gpm)
5) Tanning ledge bubbler- 1.5" line (? gpm)

I did some flow testing today and it seems like the VSF can outrun the skimmer. With only the pool and tanning jet (3 & 4) valves open, the pump seemed to almost empty the skimmer at 75 gpm. (The water level was within 1.5" from the top of the skimmer opening)

This makes sense since the skimmer is a Waterway Renegade that advertises a 75 gpm flow rate:
1607992696671.png

Here are the waterslide specs:
1607992929631.png

Here is how I'd like to revise the pump/plumbing:

VSF pump: (through C&C 320 filter, IC40 and Ultratemp)
1)pool return jets
2)tanning ledge return jets
3) tanning ledge bubbler

Intelliflo XF pump with 3" suction line (no filter, no heater)
1)Slide-3" line
2)Pentair Magic Falls- 2" line to feed 2-12" arc sheets

How does this revision look?
What wall ports are available for a fiberglass pool that will feed the XF enough water?
What's the best way to improve the VSF's suction flow? Another identical skimmer?

The PB said there's an additional unused port on the current skimmer that he can tap into, but I don't see how it could exceed the published flow rating of 75 gpm.

Thanks again for any assistance!
 

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Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
8,247
Central California
Pool Size
12300
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The PB said there's an additional unused port on the current skimmer that he can tap into, but I don't see how it could exceed the published flow rating of 75 gpm.
I would say that's impossible! If a single skimmer port can empty the skimmer, how will sucking more water out of it through a second port solve for that!?! 🤪Seems to me you need a second skimmer for just half your features, plus another suction port elsewhere for the other half.

Though his idea isn't really a surprise. All due respect, but it's clear (to me, anyway) your PB doesn't know enough about pool plumbing to get even your returns and your bubbers working, let alone your entire compliment of features! Let's see what @JamesW and @jimmythegreek think about your new plan. It sounds good to me!

Edit: it's possible your PB was suggesting connecting that second skimmer port to the pool, like via another suction port, and not the pump like I first thought, but I still don't think that will help significantly with getting more flow through that skimmer...
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
21,948
1) Slide-2" line (125-150 gpm requirement)
Suction should not exceed 6 ft/sec and return should not exceed 8 ft/sec.
Size.......6 ft/sec......8 ft/sec.
1.5"...........38...............51 gpm
2"..............63...............84 gpm
2.5............90.............119 gpm
3.0".........138.............184 gpm

For the suction, 3" pipe is ok up to 138 gpm. If you want to be able to go to 150 gpm, use 4" pipe.

For return, you should use 3" pipe.

The skimmer should not be designed to carry more than 63 gpm on the 2" line.

I would use a total of 3 skimmers for the filtration.

The builder needs to go back to the drawing board and design this correctly.
 

brandon#

Member
May 23, 2020
12
Austin, TX
I would say that's impossible! If a single skimmer port can empty the skimmer, how will sucking more water out of it through a second port solve for that!?! 🤪Seems to me you need a second skimmer for just half your features, plus another suction port elsewhere for the other half.

Though his idea isn't really a surprise. All due respect, but it's clear (to me, anyway) your PB doesn't know enough about pool plumbing to get even your returns and your bubbers working, let alone your entire compliment of features! Let's see what @JamesW and @jimmythegreek think about your new plan. It sounds good to me!

Edit: it's possible your PB was suggesting connecting that second skimmer port to the pool, like via another suction port, and not the pump like I first thought, but I still don't think that will help significantly with getting more flow through that skimmer...
You’re correct. The PB’s idea was suggesting connecting the 2nd port to the pump as well. I tried to reiterate that if the pool skimmer could flow 150 gpm, they would have rated it 150 gpm. However, the max flow is rated at 75 gpm.

I’d like to find a wall port that can outflow the XF pump I plan on buying. Any suggestions would be helpful.
 

brandon#

Member
May 23, 2020
12
Austin, TX
Suction should not exceed 6 ft/sec and return should not exceed 8 ft/sec.
Size.......6 ft/sec......8 ft/sec.
1.5"...........38...............51 gpm
2"..............63...............84 gpm
2.5............90.............119 gpm
3.0".........138.............184 gpm

For the suction, 3" pipe is ok up to 138 gpm. If you want to be able to go to 150 gpm, use 4" pipe.

For return, you should use 3" pipe.

The skimmer should not be designed to carry more than 63 gpm on the 2" line.

I would use a total of 3 skimmers for the filtration.

The builder needs to go back to the drawing board and design this correctly.
What would the suction line setup look like for the water features I listed?

if I have 3 skimmers just for filtration, what do I use for the XF pump?
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
21,948
For the slide suction, you will need at least two wall drains tied together and the drains should be rated for at least 75 gpm each.

For the filtration suction, we need to know the total flow needed in gpm.

I would design the skimmers to carry not more than about 45 to 50 gpm each.
 

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
8,247
Central California
Pool Size
12300
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The PB’s idea was suggesting connecting the 2nd port to the pump as well.
Well, I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. Seems he's not up to this job. James knows what he's talking about, but I'd still refer you back to my earlier post (#10): it's not just about figuring out the spec's, it's also about who's going to be responsible for the end result. I think you need to negotiate with your PB to bring in a qualified pool plumber and compare notes with that guy and what James recommends. If they both tell you the same thing, and the plumber is a subcontractor of the PB, then you're golden. You'll get the right plumbing, and the PB will be responsible for it.
 

brandon#

Member
May 23, 2020
12
Austin, TX
OP,

Is there a link to the slide that requires this flow? Have you seen it in operation?
Here is a link: we were planning on the RB32-26

I’ve seen several YouTube videos. The water flowing at the slide entrance is pretty intense.
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
21,948

The Approved Flow GPM Wall (Vertical) for the above drain is 72 gpm.

So, I would do 3 of these for the 150 gpm slide pump.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

CMP Fiberglass Pool Spa Suction Main Drain 25215-000-000


_____________________________________________________________________________________

Unless the main drain is certified as “Unblockable”, you have to use at least 2 regardless of the flow rating.

The drains have to be spaced at least 3 feet apart.

I would use about 75% of a drain’s rating as the design specification for safety margin.

Your local code might have other requirements that apply to underwater suction ports.
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
21,948

I would suggest three of the Hayward or CMP suction fittings with 2.5" PVC to each fitting and manifolded to (2) 2.5" PVC lines that go to a 4" T.

That way, you have 3 suction fittings where, if one got blocked, the other two could carry the full 150 gpm.

Even if one suction fitting was blocked, the water would have (2) 2.5" pipes to get to a 4" main pipe going to the slide pump.

The 4" line can be reduced to 3" at the pump.