Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (from concept to cracks to water)

[bdavis466]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

I would be shocked if the Shotcrete guy says it's an issue. The sad truth is that very few people understand the water/cement ratio and how it effects the final product.

Most contractors like more water in the mix, it makes their job easier because they don't have to work as hard or fast and the mix almost self levels. Wetter mixes are much easier on the pumps as well.

Once the water evaporates you end up with voids in the concrete that become inevitable weak points... thus shrinkage cracking occurs. The excess water ultimately decreases the PSI of the concrete.

These cracks are rarely a structural concern and are really more of a cosmetic issue. Of anything they indicate poor workmanship at the mixing plant or on the contractor's part if they added more water to the mix.

The practice of watering the concrete during the curing process is aimed at aiding in the hydration of the concrete as it cures. It has little if any effect on crack prevention. A curing agent is a much better choice than water but I've rarely seen it used. It seems the typical contractor only cares about the job until the check clears

 

[Theothermelissa]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

Our gunite was shot in july in texas. It was good-n-hot, we watered a lot and we had plenty of little hairline cracks like that. My BP said don't worry about it. Three years later no issues.

This is so good to hear!!

 

[Theothermelissa]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

I would be shocked if the Shotcrete guy says it's an issue. The sad truth is that very few people understand the water/cement ratio and how it effects the final product.

Most contractors like more water in the mix, it makes their job easier because they don't have to work as hard or fast and the mix almost self levels. Wetter mixes are much easier on the pumps as well.

Once the water evaporates you end up with voids in the concrete that become inevitable weak points... thus shrinkage cracking occurs. The excess water ultimately decreases the PSI of the concrete.

These cracks are rarely a structural concern and are really more of a cosmetic issue. Of anything they indicate poor workmanship at the mixing plant or on the contractor's part if they added more water to the mix.

The practice of watering the concrete during the curing process is aimed at aiding in the hydration of the concrete as it cures. It has little if any effect on crack prevention. A curing agent is a much better choice than water but I've rarely seen it used. It seems the typical contractor only cares about the job until the check clears

This is pretty much exactly what the shotcrete guy said.

He arrived at 9:30 as re-promised and took a good look at the cracks. He was visibly relieved to see the size of the cracks. He said these are not a structural issue and that he will guarantee and be responsible for any future damage to shell or plaster that originates from these cracks. He hit the areas on either side of the cracks with a hammer to see how it sounded and said we are fine. If they were a problem they would sound hollow and they sounded solid. He said they were caused by evaporation and too much water. It was a hot day when we were shooting. Air temp was 88/89 but it sure felt hotter in that pool. And Shotcrete guy said he warned the guys not to use too much water (why didn't they listen to him? Great question.) He said it would have been better also if they had left it rough and he pointed out that he only places with cracks were the places where they broom finished (vs the places where it is very porous). Again, why did he make sure they left it rough? Hard to say. I asked if we should put epoxy in the cracks to be safe and he said, "Where? There's no room, the cracks are too small." He mentioned that if you can fit a coin into the crack it's an indication that the cracks are deeper and a problem.

But the moral of the story is he is guaranteeing it will be fine and taking financial responsibility if it's not (I clarified that he would pay for the re-plastering if the cracks caused problems with the plaster). I'm going to take detailed pictures this afternoon and diagram all the cracks and write up an agreement for him to sign guaranteeing his responsibility. Any lawyer types out there? Anything I should be sure to include in this agreement? I trust him but just want to make sure that what I have him sign is something that would stand up if problems ever arose.

For the moment it seems like this issue is resolved. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for the comforting replies and support. I love this fourm. In real life I find myself trying to explain to friends and co-workers what is going on/ what I'm worried about and thirty seconds in I see their eyes glazing over and so I stop talking. So nice to have people to "talk" to whose eyes aren't glazing over with the pool details!

 

[Theothermelissa]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

New topic - Plaster

For the longest time I had planned on just getting plain plaster colored grey/ dark grey. I don't like the texture of pebble finish. Too bumpy and I don't like how different it looks in shallow areas vs deep. Since we have a large baja step this color difference would really standout. But I started reading/ seeing a lot of pictures showing the streaking of colored plaster and also read a lot about plaster cracks (cracks have been on my mind today). Then, about an hour ago I discovered there are things in between plaster and pebbletec ( I know, this is something I should have explored months ago). I spoke to the company that is doing our tile instal, coping and plaster and got a quote for upgrading to either Finest Finish and Quartzscapes. Does anyone have experience with either of these? They are allegedly smoother than pebbletec but still with a lot of the strength benefits. Any thoughts?

 

[kimkats]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

I am glad he did not think it was a big problem. I also like that you are taking pics and having him sign something as a back up of what he said. Good job!

No help with the finish though.

Kim

 

[pooldv]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

There are definitely some folks here who are happy with their quartz finishes. I've never heard of Finest Finish.

 

[poolnorthernva]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

This in interesting and informative. Thank you and good luck. We break ground for ours next week.

 

[Theothermelissa]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

This in interesting and informative. Thank you and good luck. We break ground for ours next week.

Thanks! Good luck on your build. Are you going to do a build thread?

 

[poolnorthernva]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

Thanks! Good luck on your build. Are you going to do a build thread?

I hope so, not sure how timely I can make it. It is an exciting and nerve racking process!

 

[Sunbaby]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

I just want to say THANK YOU for sharing all of this with us! Sometimes it is scary to share the hard stuff - but it will help a lot of people. Your pool is going to be SWEET!!! Can't wait to see the final pics! Sorry - no idea on the plaster - we are going with Pebble Sheen. But please keep posting pics of the process!

 

[desertX]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

Thanks for posting info on your build, especially the crack part. We just finished our shotcrete yesterday and I already have some hairline cracks too - they look just like yours, though not as long. I'll wait a couple of days before calling the shotcrete guy back to take a quick look, but I'm feeling a little better now.

As for plaster, I'm thinking the same as you - probably going to go with a quartz finish - don't like the feel of pebble, too rough, and want something a little stronger than straight plaster.. It seems warranty on quartz finishes is longer too...

 

[Theothermelissa]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

I just want to say THANK YOU for sharing all of this with us! Sometimes it is scary to share the hard stuff - but it will help a lot of people. Your pool is going to be SWEET!!! Can't wait to see the final pics! Sorry - no idea on the plaster - we are going with Pebble Sheen. But please keep posting pics of the process!

Thanks for posting info on your build, especially the crack part. We just finished our shotcrete yesterday and I already have some hairline cracks too - they look just like yours, though not as long. I'll wait a couple of days before calling the shotcrete guy back to take a quick look, but I'm feeling a little better now.

As for plaster, I'm thinking the same as you - probably going to go with a quartz finish - don't like the feel of pebble, too rough, and want something a little stronger than straight plaster.. It seems warranty on quartz finishes is longer too...

I am so glad you guys are enjoying my build. I learned so much from this community (and still have SO much to learn) so I'm glad I can contribute!

Today and yesterday we had coping and slate. It looks great. Pictures tonight.

 

[Divin Dave]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

Welp,
Its been a few days since I visited this thread. Im glad the news was good on the cracks. Most folks say there are 2 thing in life that are certain.
I say there are 3.
Death, taxes and concrete is going to crack. That is just a fact of life and I agree with your guy. There is nothing to worry about. (ive got a good bit of experience with things like this).

Quartzscapes will provide you with a great finish. Its a really good product and quite a few TFPers have it in their pools. If you were to post a new thread asking specifially about quartzscape or some other plaster, it would be more visible and you would likely get quite a few replies about it.

 

[jojoman]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (aka Our Great "Adventure")

We love the our quartzscape plaster finish. Now there are areas of plaster that the black(real small) quartz can be seen and other areas where you can see almost none. Between variances in the lighter blue color we had chosen and the quartzscape in the plaster, this give the finish some character. Which we love how that all worked out. If you are looking for more of a solid color finish this might not be what you what. On the very positive side is in about 10 years you will just need to acid wash the quartzscape plaster and your good for 10 more years.

My hat is off to you for taking on a job like this. Glad the cracks are not a major issue. Your pool is going to be awesome!

 

[Theothermelissa]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

old business - I took detailed photos of the cracks (which after hearing from many of you, our shotcrete guy and the pool cover guy of all people, I'm now quite confident are no big deal) and drew up an agreement for the shotcrete guy to sign guaranteeing that he will take financial responsibility for any damage created by the cracks. He signed and we are putting the crack issue behind us.

New business - The tile guy (should I be referring to him as a mason...? is tile guy a belittling term...? Like stewardess instead of flight attendant? I'll just call him by his name -- Fabian) has been working at our house all week. Lots of pictures below to show our progress:

Friday our coping arrived! We decided to go with Bellecrete prepared concrete coping. Light grey, sand finish with "modern" style edge (vs bullnose or anything fancy).


Monday Fabian set a fair amount of the coping.


It should be noted that I'm back at work now. It's very hard for me to be missing build items but the silver lining this week was my husband (who is a teacher) is on spring break this week so he was home and would send me pictures throughout the day. But being his spring break we're traveling Wed-Monday and work is carrying on without us. But now with both of us gone we have someone else checking on the pool and sending us pictures so we can see what has been done. I've been texting with Fabian to triple check things and checking in with the woman at the office to quadruple check things. So anyway while I was at work Tuesday the slate ledge-stone went up.

Wide shot of finished slate:


Closer view of area around water spouts:


Today he finished off the coping. I think it looks pretty great in this pic:


Also think it looks very nice in this pic:


I'm less thrilled with the details in this one:


You can probably spot why I'm less thrilled here. The pieces on the raised bond beam are 16 inches wide by 24 long wide. And the corner has a special piece. So obviously it would be impossible to order exactly the amount you need. Cutting in necessary to make the pieces fit perfectly. But the cut on the top just looks a bit silly to me. That piece is tiny. I don't know what exactly I would have asked him to differently had I been there -- maybe trim them all a little and have a larger fill in piece that more closely matches the other sizes? It's hard to say. What's not hard to say is I don't love it. But from the wide picture you can't notice it. And having him change anything at this point probably means ordering new materials and waiting for them to arrive and probably push my plaster date... and I want all of that less than I want it fixed. So add that tiny piece of coping to the "character" list (as in the pool isn't perfect, it has character).

Tomorrow they are doing tile and again I'm bummed I won't be there to make sure things look the way I'm imagining they will look. But I have communicated with all involved parties and if it's wrong then I will either ask them to fix it or depending on the severity just add it to the "character" list...

 

[kimkats]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

LOVE the work by the scuppers! The coping looks great as well. The "character" piece is not big deal in the large picture! No one else will even notice it when they enjoy your wonderful pool!

I SO know what you mean about not being there to make sure things go right. At least you have someone to keep an eye on them and send pics!

Kim

 

[Theothermelissa]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

More progress. Tile has begun. We are using a Marazzi tile from the crystal stone line. We had considered Oceanside glass tile but the price was soooo much higher and honestly we didn't love it that much more than the tile we chose... well actually it may have even been a tie and the tie goes to the more affordable option. Especially when more expensive option would take 4-6 weeks to order.

This is what it looks like on the glossy brochure:



And here's what it is looking like in our pool:







I believe they are going to finish tile on Monday. We are schedule for plaster on Wednesday. We decided to go with a quartscapes. Thanks to all who had input on the subject. It's very hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that we may have water in the pool before this time next week. Guess I need to finally order that test kit and find a pool guy to do school/ start-up!

 

[Patrick_B]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

Congrats Melissa! Getting water in is very exciting!

You'll love the Quartscapes I promise you. Go ahead an order that kit indeed. It's a few pennies when you consider how much insurance it provides for all the blood sweat and tears you put into that pool. Anxious to see some plaster going in.

 

[kimkats]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

The shine! Oh the shine! THAT is pretty!

Who is doing your finish? You need to talk to THEM about how to start your pool-brushing and chemicals so that your warranty is safe in the long run.

There is a post somewhere about how TFP says to do a start up. I will look for it. Let me know if you find it before me.

Kim

 

[pooldv]

Re: Pasadena Pool Build by Owner (update: we have cracks :-(

That all looks great! Love the coping and the tile. Can't wait to see that tile with water.

Those cut coping stones will blend into the background. We have a couple of flagstone pieces that make you say, hmmm, what were they thinking? It is very easy to focus on minor details while the project is slowly moving along. But, once it is all finished the overall design and style will come to the forefront and the little details that annoyed you during the build will disappear. All the pain and suffering of building a pool go away the first time you are sipping a cold beverage in a floatie on a hot a day!