Hi, does anyone know where I can get a parts list? I need a new transformer and possibly a control board. Thanks!!
Parts List for 2011 Sundance Optima 880 Spa
- Thread starter BlueBaron
- Start date
The owners manual can be found online which also has the schematic, I believe? I once found this for my Sundance Altimar, also a 2011.
Maddie
Maddie
Why don't you explain what is going on and maybe we can figure it out without throwing $1k of parts at it.
Do you have a multimeter?
Do you have a multimeter?
Thank you. I did not see your response until today. I believe the problem is the heater sensor. I have had it disconnected from the board for several days and the problem seems to have gone away. I do have a multimeter. The problem was that the circuit breaker kept tripping.
Well, by disconnecting the sensors you will disable the heater, and possibly the circulation pump as well. A faulty heater or circ pump will trip the breaker immediately after power up. But, since the heater is the biggest amp draw in the tub, a faulty breaker or loose connection will cause it to trip after running the heater for a while. Also, if your wiring is #8 gauge it can cause nuisance tripping of the breaker, and if the breaker is too small it will trip if the heater is on and the jets are turned on, which happens automatically during a filter cycle.
So, is the spa new to you? What size breaker do you have? Do you know the wire size? How far from the breaker is the spa? When and how often does it trip?
So, is the spa new to you? What size breaker do you have? Do you know the wire size? How far from the breaker is the spa? When and how often does it trip?
Thanks so much. I have had the spa for 9 years. The heater is 9 months old. 50 amp gfi (that I just replaced). I can check the wire gauge in the am. Breaker seems to trip randomly...but every couple of days. I tried disconnecting things one by one from the main board, but I could not tell what was making the breaker trip (because it doesnt always trip). Right now i disconnected one sensor only—the temperature sensor that is located under the filter. The pumps run, but the water does not heat. Presumably disconnecting the sensor shuts off the heater. I dont think it is the heater because that is 9 months old. Hopefully its the temperature sensor. But at this point I am guessing.
The sensor cannot possibly trip the gfci. It operates on low voltage, and is isolated from the gfci by the transformer.
Is there any water in the equipment area?
Any sign of mice chewing wires or bugs in the control box?
Does it have a stereo?
Tighten the wire terminals on the breaker.
If it continues to randomly trip, disconnect the ozonator wires from the board.
Next, the stereo power supply (if it has one).
Aside from those, if everything is dry in the equipment area, it's likely the breaker. It may be fairly new, but that does not mean it is not bad.
Is there any water in the equipment area?
Any sign of mice chewing wires or bugs in the control box?
Does it have a stereo?
Tighten the wire terminals on the breaker.
If it continues to randomly trip, disconnect the ozonator wires from the board.
Next, the stereo power supply (if it has one).
Aside from those, if everything is dry in the equipment area, it's likely the breaker. It may be fairly new, but that does not mean it is not bad.
Thanks again. Very helpful. There is no water in the equipment area. All wires are tight. I will re-check for mice damage. The breaker is 8 days old. Both the old one and the new one trip. I previously disconnected the ozonator and it still tripped. But I will try again to make sure I didn’t make a mistake. It does not have a stereo. Thanks for explaining the sensor.
That is strange. If both breakers behave the same it is unlikely, but not impossible, that you have a bad breaker or loose connection.
How long has the sensor been unplugged? Long enough that you are sure it has stopped? That would indicate a heater issue, but 99% of heaters that trip the breaker will do so immediately.
Is the circulation pump still running with the sensor unplugged? They rarely cause a gfci trip, but it does happen.
Another common cause is water in the blower from a high water level and failed check valve. Does it act up only after use?
If you disconnect the ground wire it will determine if it is a ground fault or amp draw/heat issue. But your gfci protection may be compromised by doing so, and you would be unable to use or even touch the water or any metal part while testing. If the ground wire is bare copper, be sure it is not touching any metal at the box connector as well. If it is in metal conduit this test will not work.
With heater and jets running, take an amp reading on one of the main power wires.
How long has the sensor been unplugged? Long enough that you are sure it has stopped? That would indicate a heater issue, but 99% of heaters that trip the breaker will do so immediately.
Is the circulation pump still running with the sensor unplugged? They rarely cause a gfci trip, but it does happen.
Another common cause is water in the blower from a high water level and failed check valve. Does it act up only after use?
If you disconnect the ground wire it will determine if it is a ground fault or amp draw/heat issue. But your gfci protection may be compromised by doing so, and you would be unable to use or even touch the water or any metal part while testing. If the ground wire is bare copper, be sure it is not touching any metal at the box connector as well. If it is in metal conduit this test will not work.
With heater and jets running, take an amp reading on one of the main power wires.
Thanks again for your help. To answer your questions:
1) The temperature sensor was unplugged for two days. The heat had most definitely stopped, but the the circulation pump and the jets would operate. (The breaker did not trip during the time that the temperature sensor was unplugged).
This morning I replaced the temperature sensor. I know you said that could not be the problem, but I changed it anyway since I already had a brand new one that I could not return.
2) You mentioned water in the blower (from high water level and failed check valve). I have not done anything to evaluate this possibility. I can tell you that the breaker seems to trip randomly (sometimes on start up, sometimes during use, sometimes when it is not being used)). I did notice that the area directly below the blower seemed a little damp. I could not tell if there was a leak or whether that was water from another source (rain, garden hose etc). In the next few days, I will try and see if there is a leak.
3) I have not disconnected the ground wire yet. I also have not measured the amperage on the main power line with the jets and heater running. I will do that later, see below.
4) I rechecked for mice and chewed wires (there were none).
I have the hot tub running now with the new temperature sensor in place. If the breaker blows again, I will take the additional steps you mentioned, starting with disconnecting the ozonator.
Thanks again!
Ok, the breaker blew again. So I disconnected the Ozonator. After about a day, the breaker blew again. So I re-connected the Ozonator and disconnected the heater. I could not reset the breaker with the heater disconnected. (Sometimes the breaker trips on start up and sometimes it trips after the hot tub has been running for a while). I reconnected the heater and the tub is running again. I am sure it will trip soon. I would appreciate any suggestions.
That is even more confusing. I can't imagine why it would not reset with the heater disconnected.
If you have a good ohm meter (not a $10 harbor freight piece of junk) you can stop the guesswork and test each component, disconnected from the board, for continuity to ground when the breaker is tripping. If it is tripping with nothing showing ground continuity, including the spa main wiring, it is a breaker issue.
A blower that is wet will trip the breaker until it dries. An ozonator will trip it any time it is on if wet. A circ pump rarely trips a breaker unless it is wet, but can really only be tested individually with the heater disconnected. A heater will trip it immediately, as one leg of the heater is hot as soon as the breaker is turned on. A jet pump can trip a breaker if leaking at the shaft seal (wet). A transformer can trip it if wet or shorted, but it won't be intermittent. A board can trip it if wet, or a mouse electrocuted itself or something.
But a breaker can trip from heating up. If it is reset right after it trips it will trip again immediately. If allowed to cool it will reset and run intil it heats up again. You can often feel the difference in temperature between the side of the breaker and the box it is in. A breaker can heat up from wire that is too small or damaged, loose connections, too many amps on the circuit, ambient heat source (sunshine, close to something else getting hot, corroded bus bar, loose/corroded main lug connections, etc).
Your issue is what we call "nuisance tripping" or "ghost tripping", and is one of the most difficult things to diagnose in a spa since there is such a long list of possibilities. But when you have eliminated all the equipment, all you have left is a breaker and wiring.
Disconnect everything but the circ pump. If it doesn't trip, reconnect one thing at a time, starting with the heater, until it starts tripping again. Disconnect the heater before trying the pumps to eliminate over-amping as a possibility. Obviously give it plenty of time between each one to be sure.
If you have a good ohm meter (not a $10 harbor freight piece of junk) you can stop the guesswork and test each component, disconnected from the board, for continuity to ground when the breaker is tripping. If it is tripping with nothing showing ground continuity, including the spa main wiring, it is a breaker issue.
A blower that is wet will trip the breaker until it dries. An ozonator will trip it any time it is on if wet. A circ pump rarely trips a breaker unless it is wet, but can really only be tested individually with the heater disconnected. A heater will trip it immediately, as one leg of the heater is hot as soon as the breaker is turned on. A jet pump can trip a breaker if leaking at the shaft seal (wet). A transformer can trip it if wet or shorted, but it won't be intermittent. A board can trip it if wet, or a mouse electrocuted itself or something.
But a breaker can trip from heating up. If it is reset right after it trips it will trip again immediately. If allowed to cool it will reset and run intil it heats up again. You can often feel the difference in temperature between the side of the breaker and the box it is in. A breaker can heat up from wire that is too small or damaged, loose connections, too many amps on the circuit, ambient heat source (sunshine, close to something else getting hot, corroded bus bar, loose/corroded main lug connections, etc).
Your issue is what we call "nuisance tripping" or "ghost tripping", and is one of the most difficult things to diagnose in a spa since there is such a long list of possibilities. But when you have eliminated all the equipment, all you have left is a breaker and wiring.
Disconnect everything but the circ pump. If it doesn't trip, reconnect one thing at a time, starting with the heater, until it starts tripping again. Disconnect the heater before trying the pumps to eliminate over-amping as a possibility. Obviously give it plenty of time between each one to be sure.
Thank you for your great help. I will disconnect “everything” this morning. One question, when I disconnect and reconnect, should I disconnect and reconnect the high voltage side of the transformer (and forget about disconnecting and reconnecting the low voltage side)?
Not the transformer. Nothing will work with it disconnected. If it's not wet and the controls are working it's not the cause. It's mounted on the back of the control pack.
Thank you very much. I have disconnected everything except the circulation pump and we will see how it goes.
Good morning, the breaker has not tripped for several days. What should I connect next? The heater? Thanks!
OK so I have run it for four days with the heater on and the breaker is not tripped. Should I connect the jet pump? And should I disconnect the heater before I hook up the jet pump? Thanks for your help.
Yes, disconnect the heater and try the pump. If it holds you can reconnect the heater as well. If it holds with each by itself but trips with both it's the breaker.
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