Also note, that the "3D" model" is just a picture of a pool thrown into your yard. It is not to scale. In my case, they added some plants and trees around the pool that was not native to the area (more tropical plants even though they are local). It was nice to see in the end, but after maybe looking at it a few times to get a feel for how it would seem in the yard I filed it away. They don't use tools like VIP3D or Pool Studio as far as I can tell.
PA builders / Philly area reccomendations
- Thread starter Gorilla83
- Start date
- Jul 2, 2017
- 465
- Pool Size
- 33000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Make sure he gives your model numbers and such so we can make sure they are big/good enough.
Kim
Thanks Kim, he did provide sample model numbers and will have more details with the quote. Here are the basics of what we're looking for - this includes my questions for you guys:
710 sq foot freeform pool w/ quartz finish (quartz was a 3k or so upgrade, seems worthwhile)? Plan is for true 8" walls and 1/2" rebar throughout.
Brick coping
SWG (I told him I wanted to oversize). They also push a mineral system as standard but will be sure to tell him I don't want that included thanks to you guys. Also looking at total control - is this worth the 3k or so? I've read of issues with the ORP sensor.
3.5 - 8' depth
Polaris robotic cleaner - TR35P
2 skimmers, 4 dedicated returns
Sunshelf 90 sq ft - this was a 3200 dollar option. Seems a bit much?
Pentair ultratemp heat pump - should I be looking at natural gas? I have an option here to use that as well.
Sta-rite 2hp pump (I told him I want variable speed upgrade)
Sta-rite System 3 DE filter - he didn't mention sizing yet, but will likely ask to oversize this as well
Multi color led light Intellibrite 5g light - 1 is standard, should I be looking at 2? I think the upgrades were 1K each light
Some type of large waterfall - assume I want a dedicated pump for this? (pricing expected 10-12k) - will have to review this carefully
800-1000sq ft of stamped concrete decking ($12/sq ft)
300-400 feet of aluminum fencing ($23/linear foot installed)
Cover - (for winter use) - Should I go for solid or mesh? His guess here so far was 3500-4k
Small retaining wall - this will be a must do with my yard
Does this seem like a reasonable initial build list? What else should I consider?
Good to know. I was hoping it would be to scale so I could map it out in the yard. Maybe I will get a little more from A&S?
BTW also going to contact Premier pools to talk with them.
Pricing from one area to another is hard to compare as it varies so much. I do have some comments on a couple of things below:
"Sunshelf 90 sq ft - this was a 3200 dollar option. Seems a bit much?" That does sound like a lot to me (going with my gut here) it is in the digging and then add just a little bit more rebar to raise it from the floor. Not sure why he said this would be an upcharge.
"Pentair heat pump - should I be looking at natural gas? I have an option here to use that as well." This is all on you. Look at the cost of gas vs. electric in your area and go from there.
"Multi color led light - 1 is standard, should I be looking at 2? I think the upgrades were 1K each light" We will be able to better tell how many lights you want/need when we see the pool design. Another good way to see how many lights is if you "draw" the pool out on the area with a bright colored rope. That shows you the size and gives an idea of what is needed.
Kim
"Sunshelf 90 sq ft - this was a 3200 dollar option. Seems a bit much?" That does sound like a lot to me (going with my gut here) it is in the digging and then add just a little bit more rebar to raise it from the floor. Not sure why he said this would be an upcharge.
"Pentair heat pump - should I be looking at natural gas? I have an option here to use that as well." This is all on you. Look at the cost of gas vs. electric in your area and go from there.
"Multi color led light - 1 is standard, should I be looking at 2? I think the upgrades were 1K each light" We will be able to better tell how many lights you want/need when we see the pool design. Another good way to see how many lights is if you "draw" the pool out on the area with a bright colored rope. That shows you the size and gives an idea of what is needed.
Kim
- Jul 2, 2017
- 465
- Pool Size
- 33000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Kim - Agreed on the sunshelf. A few other locals have shared quotes with me and it seems like 1000-1500 is more standard for something that size. If I wind up proceeding with them I'll likely ask for a reduction there.
As far as the design, I'm hoping to have some type of a model over the next few days to share with you guys.
As far as the design, I'm hoping to have some type of a model over the next few days to share with you guys.
- Jul 2, 2017
- 465
- Pool Size
- 33000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Rough design we liked here - this is what we'll use for the quote. We'd be roughly 41x21 in dimensions as well.
Wow...I wrote a long post and it got deleted when I accidentally hit back in the browser....bye bye 30 minutes of my life.
So yes, $1000-1500 is more standard. You would want gas if you are going with a spa. I am not certain, but heard heat pumps are good enough for this area. If you need to raise the temp of the pool quickly (within hours) a heat pump won't be able to do that. It will take a heat pump days to get to the temp you set. I am not getting a heater as I get sun all day long and with a darker, pebble interior I "think" the water should be warm enough. Most of the issues with heat is more about retaining heat in the pool. Pool heat is mostly lost via evaporation, especially overnight. that is why some people decide to deal with the hassles of a solar cover or invest in an auto-cover ($$$$ $10K++ for starters).
As far as a design, you probably won't get more from A&S. They have some people that do 3D, but no in our area. In either case, Arista will do it for free so you will get a feel for it. Neither of them does what Monogram does with Pool Studio (search Monogram on Youtube to see).
What else...hmmmm...
SWG -> Definitely oversize, but make sure to buy total control components (item # 75003) if you skip the pH stuff. This may look like the DIG-220, but the DIG-220 cannot be added on to...in other words you cannot add the ORP sensor to it. Think about automation if you want it and if your equipment will all work together across brands.
Depth -> Get a tape measure and check different depths against you and your family's height while sitting, kneeling,standing and so on to get a feel for depths. With a sunself inside the pool (part of your 710) this will take up space and accelerate the slope in your pool so it won't be 3.5" very long.
Pool cleaner - TR35P is not a robot. It is a private lablel Polaris 3900 -> The Truth About Pool Cleaners: What Your Pool Store Isn’t Telling You | Sunplay
Robots seem much better (onboard filter, navigation tech, etc). Pressure side vs robot is like a roomba vs a brush.
Decking -> Stamped concrete was something I considered. You should look into it as I have read people stating issues with how hot and slippery it can be. Also think about your design and how it will look when the concrete color starts fading, chipping or cracking. I feel the stamped concrete is a fad and question how I would feel about it in 10-15 years. You may feel otherwise, but that detracted me from it. I like the look of rock salt finished concrete, but to each their own.
Cover - I prefer mesh. I don't have a pool now, but grew up with one. The solid covers required a lot more pumping and raking to get wet leaves off. Maybe things have changed, but when we switched to a mesh cover it was far less maintenance.
- - - Updated - - -
Oh, and as far as sunshelf placement...how will you use the pool? Do you want to swim laps? That may make you want to move the shelf out of the way and start with a 4' in the shallow end. I have small children now so didn't want to start too deep.
Also, a rectangle shape makes thing easier for pool cleaners (robots and pressure cleaners), cheaper for pool covers and easier to deal with solar covers, etc.
So yes, $1000-1500 is more standard. You would want gas if you are going with a spa. I am not certain, but heard heat pumps are good enough for this area. If you need to raise the temp of the pool quickly (within hours) a heat pump won't be able to do that. It will take a heat pump days to get to the temp you set. I am not getting a heater as I get sun all day long and with a darker, pebble interior I "think" the water should be warm enough. Most of the issues with heat is more about retaining heat in the pool. Pool heat is mostly lost via evaporation, especially overnight. that is why some people decide to deal with the hassles of a solar cover or invest in an auto-cover ($$$$ $10K++ for starters).
As far as a design, you probably won't get more from A&S. They have some people that do 3D, but no in our area. In either case, Arista will do it for free so you will get a feel for it. Neither of them does what Monogram does with Pool Studio (search Monogram on Youtube to see).
What else...hmmmm...
SWG -> Definitely oversize, but make sure to buy total control components (item # 75003) if you skip the pH stuff. This may look like the DIG-220, but the DIG-220 cannot be added on to...in other words you cannot add the ORP sensor to it. Think about automation if you want it and if your equipment will all work together across brands.
Depth -> Get a tape measure and check different depths against you and your family's height while sitting, kneeling,standing and so on to get a feel for depths. With a sunself inside the pool (part of your 710) this will take up space and accelerate the slope in your pool so it won't be 3.5" very long.
Pool cleaner - TR35P is not a robot. It is a private lablel Polaris 3900 -> The Truth About Pool Cleaners: What Your Pool Store Isn’t Telling You | Sunplay
Robots seem much better (onboard filter, navigation tech, etc). Pressure side vs robot is like a roomba vs a brush.
Decking -> Stamped concrete was something I considered. You should look into it as I have read people stating issues with how hot and slippery it can be. Also think about your design and how it will look when the concrete color starts fading, chipping or cracking. I feel the stamped concrete is a fad and question how I would feel about it in 10-15 years. You may feel otherwise, but that detracted me from it. I like the look of rock salt finished concrete, but to each their own.
Cover - I prefer mesh. I don't have a pool now, but grew up with one. The solid covers required a lot more pumping and raking to get wet leaves off. Maybe things have changed, but when we switched to a mesh cover it was far less maintenance.
- - - Updated - - -
Oh, and as far as sunshelf placement...how will you use the pool? Do you want to swim laps? That may make you want to move the shelf out of the way and start with a 4' in the shallow end. I have small children now so didn't want to start too deep.
Also, a rectangle shape makes thing easier for pool cleaners (robots and pressure cleaners), cheaper for pool covers and easier to deal with solar covers, etc.
- Jul 2, 2017
- 465
- Pool Size
- 33000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
The heater - I think i'll be torn for a while with the electric vs. gas. We have decent gas rates in my area and could see us using the heater sparingly (on demand on select weekend mornings in May, June, and Sept). I've got time to think on that.
Depth - good points! My wife and I seem to think we want the sunshelf and stairs off to the side as to not interfere with the full length of the pool. I also have small kids ages 2 and 4. We actually went to visit a neighbor's Arista built pool on Sunday and my kids LOVED playing in the shelf area. It was hard to tear them away.
Cleaner - thanks for the heads up. I have done 0 research here yet, but likely next on my list along with reading up on automation.
Decking - We have stamped concrete at the house that is 10 plus years old and is holding up great. Ideally we'd tie into the back patio which is stamped and try to match that as best as we can. I'll take a look at some alternatives just in case though.
Cover - I'm leaning toward mesh as well. My parents used to have mesh cover on their 20x40 rectangular pool a while back and seemed to work well. With water being able to pass through is snow or algae growth from sunlight a concern?
Depth - good points! My wife and I seem to think we want the sunshelf and stairs off to the side as to not interfere with the full length of the pool. I also have small kids ages 2 and 4. We actually went to visit a neighbor's Arista built pool on Sunday and my kids LOVED playing in the shelf area. It was hard to tear them away.
Cleaner - thanks for the heads up. I have done 0 research here yet, but likely next on my list along with reading up on automation.
Decking - We have stamped concrete at the house that is 10 plus years old and is holding up great. Ideally we'd tie into the back patio which is stamped and try to match that as best as we can. I'll take a look at some alternatives just in case though.
Cover - I'm leaning toward mesh as well. My parents used to have mesh cover on their 20x40 rectangular pool a while back and seemed to work well. With water being able to pass through is snow or algae growth from sunlight a concern?
- Jul 2, 2017
- 465
- Pool Size
- 33000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
For anyone following - adding Premier pools and Spas as well as Ted's pools from Newtown Square, PA in the mix for discussion. Premier is coming out next Friday, hoping to get Ted's to come out sometime next week as well.
Hello I live in Glen Mills. We are half way through the build process. Originally, I met with Premier and Ted's and a few others. I really liked Premier's ideas and the options they offered. However, we went with Anthony & Sylvan because of price and we were more familiar with them as a local company. The communication is not the best with A&S. I think in the long run Premier and A&S bids were probably very similar with the upgrades we made to the A&S contract since we originally signed. We signed in Jan. I thought I would have the pool done by Memorial day. They did not start until the beginning of May and as I said we are half way done.
- Jul 2, 2017
- 465
- Pool Size
- 33000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
PM sent, thanks. I met with John from Great valley landscaping and pool today as well. Seemed very knowledgeable, although not many reviews out there for them online so if we get more serious with pursuing them I'll for sure be asking for some references.
- Jul 2, 2017
- 465
- Pool Size
- 33000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Update with the following:
1) Arista - Nick stopped by last week (tuesday) to measure the yard and to capture all the details with what we wanted. I haven't heard back yet, but hoping to get something in the next day or so with more details.
2) Great valley pool & landscaping - John Amen stopped by to talk to us last Friday, seems very knowledgeable and is going to work up some details as well.
3) Anthony and Sylvan - appointment scheduled for tonight
4) Premier pools - appointment scheduled for Friday morning
5) Scott Payne - Talked with him last night for a bit, he also came at the recommendation of Tony from Monogram pools who has a stellar reputation. He's planning to come out either this weekend or early next week.
I'm hoping with these 5 I can narrow down to 2 or so serious contenders and begin negotiating soon.
1) Arista - Nick stopped by last week (tuesday) to measure the yard and to capture all the details with what we wanted. I haven't heard back yet, but hoping to get something in the next day or so with more details.
2) Great valley pool & landscaping - John Amen stopped by to talk to us last Friday, seems very knowledgeable and is going to work up some details as well.
3) Anthony and Sylvan - appointment scheduled for tonight
4) Premier pools - appointment scheduled for Friday morning
5) Scott Payne - Talked with him last night for a bit, he also came at the recommendation of Tony from Monogram pools who has a stellar reputation. He's planning to come out either this weekend or early next week.
I'm hoping with these 5 I can narrow down to 2 or so serious contenders and begin negotiating soon.
- Jul 16, 2012
- 7,284
- Pool Size
- 27000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Mesh cover - The best level of mesh cover from the major players blocks almost all sunlight so algae is not an issue in that respect. What usually causes algae under covers is opening too late or closing too early. You'd be looking at May 1 - Oct 1 and probably be ok. Pool should be open/running if water temp is 60 or greater to avoid algae.
Robot - I'd shortlist your cleaning robot to the following three Dolphin models: S200 (AKA A20 & others) - no Bluetooth, S300i (A30i and others) - Bluetooth & Caddy, or M500 - Bluetooth, Caddy & third brush. Each has an Owner's Club thread in the Pool Cleaners section.
Lights - You will want two full-size lights color LED's in the main pool. Or you could go with 3 or 4 nicheless LED's, plus others for shelf, etc.
Benches - Take a look through our build thread (see my signature) for some bench ideas not usually chosen by people but which I think are great for a deep pool. They are our standing benches - 48" would be a good depth - ours are a bit shallower.
ORP sensors - They tend to need calibrating frequently and are not particularly highly regarded for residential use.
Robot - I'd shortlist your cleaning robot to the following three Dolphin models: S200 (AKA A20 & others) - no Bluetooth, S300i (A30i and others) - Bluetooth & Caddy, or M500 - Bluetooth, Caddy & third brush. Each has an Owner's Club thread in the Pool Cleaners section.
Lights - You will want two full-size lights color LED's in the main pool. Or you could go with 3 or 4 nicheless LED's, plus others for shelf, etc.
Benches - Take a look through our build thread (see my signature) for some bench ideas not usually chosen by people but which I think are great for a deep pool. They are our standing benches - 48" would be a good depth - ours are a bit shallower.
ORP sensors - They tend to need calibrating frequently and are not particularly highly regarded for residential use.
Nectarologist
Well-known member
- Apr 3, 2015
- 642
- Pool Size
- 21000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
I vote for gas without a doubt. The upfront cost of a heat pump really turned me off and if money isn't an object there is no need to worry about the gas bill (which isn't a lot even heating the pool). If you want to swim early (beginning of May) and swim through September you'll appreciate the gas heating. If you know you won't use the pool past labor day because of school, sports, or whatever then it's not as important. Gas is not expensive to use at least by me. This year I've used more because the season started out a lot cooler than the last 2 years (particularly the overnights). But my high bill this season was about $200 so that's a worst case scenario. I keep the pool at 84 min and usually put it to 86. Good luck!
- Jul 2, 2017
- 465
- Pool Size
- 33000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Thanks! Mesh cover it is. Thanks for the suggestions on the robots, have been reading up on here as well as reviews on amazon for the popular Dolphin and Polaris models. LOVE the fact that the robots have bluetooth connections for data, that will be a must have for me.
Lights - I'm thinking 2-3 lights will do (depending on our final shape/design) and have included that as input to all the builders that have come out so far.
Thanks for the input on the bench setup, that's next on my list to lock down after we select a final shape.
------------------------------------
A&S came out last night - rep seemed very knowledgeable and certainly has the experience. They've (same sales rep) done 10+ pools in our neighborhood alone over the last 10-12 years. I've talked to a few of the neighbors so far and seemed happy overall with the experience and the build, will be doing some more follow ups shortly. Most importantly, he seemed open to changes to their standard designs and equipment choices.
Premier comes tomorrow morning for their consult.
- - - Updated - - -
Thanks for the input. After discussing the heater heavily last night with my wife, I think we're set on a gas heater. We'd likely only heat for the weekends and in doing so gas would be much more effective in doing so far the short "bursts" of heating. We definitely want to heat in the May and September time frame (hopefully early October?) so that's heavily weighted in our consideration. Looking at the Raypak's in 400K BTU range.
As far as heat I voted not to do it. Extending the season sounds great, but the air temperature made me think twice about being out there. I could still be convinced otherwise, but am not there now.
Good Morning,
We are just north of you in Lansdale. We had a pool built last summer (we loved our builder but I am pretty sure he does not do work as far south as you) Regarding the heater, I would strongly recommend gas. In the spring when the nights were cool but the days were warm enough to swim we would turn the heater on in the morning and by lunchtime it was warm enough to swim.
Mike
We are just north of you in Lansdale. We had a pool built last summer (we loved our builder but I am pretty sure he does not do work as far south as you) Regarding the heater, I would strongly recommend gas. In the spring when the nights were cool but the days were warm enough to swim we would turn the heater on in the morning and by lunchtime it was warm enough to swim.
Mike
The question is as the time passes and the excitement dies down, which features still make you want to swim. Heater sounds great, but most people in my neighborhood don't use their pools all that much anymore. They say that being able to swim in May no longer appealed to them. I thought something like that might be worth waiting on rather than spending more up front.
- Jul 2, 2017
- 465
- Pool Size
- 33000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I hear you - however, my wife said that the heater a non-negotiable for her and the kids, haha. Especially after she's talked to the neighbors about it, I think that's a done deal but I'm OK with it.
- - - Updated - - -
Thanks Mike! Assuming you went with monogram? Seems like everyone out your way is using them.
Esloser
0
I'll also throw in a vote for natural gas. I live in South Jersey so a similar climate. I opened the pool at the end of April this year. I heated it for 3 weekends in May and my gas bill was $275 that month. It's a 36,000 gallon pool with attached spa that I also use 2-4 nights per week for 2-3 hours. Just this month, my gas bill was $75 using just the spa and 1 day of heating the pool to 85 for a party we were having.
The natural gas 400k heater can heat the pool 5 degrees in 3-4 hours. I can heat the spa from 85-98 in about 20 minutes. Just by 2 cents
The natural gas 400k heater can heat the pool 5 degrees in 3-4 hours. I can heat the spa from 85-98 in about 20 minutes. Just by 2 cents
You are pretty sharp as we did use Monogram! The other thing I want to say regarding the heater, if you are doing any type of spa, the gas heater is must over a heat pump. The gas heater heats our spa in 15 minutes.