Oyyy … frustrated

[Texas Splash]

But does anyone want to take an educated guess on why the pool looks so good but won’t hold chlorine ?

That's usually from one of two things:
1 - Either there is excessive organic material in the water (like algae); it can be transparent so you may not see it.
2 - CYA is too low (below 30) and the sun's UV is grabbing all the free chlorine.

Below is my own cheat-cheat I like to pass along to help with the CYA test.

CYA Testing:
Proper lighting is critical for the CYA test, so you want to test for CYA outside on a bright sunny day. Use the mixing bottle to gently mix the required amounts of pool water and R-0013 reagent, let sit for 30 seconds, then gently mix again. Recommend standing outside with your back to the sun and the view tube in the shade of your body at waist level. Then, begin squirting the mixed solution into the skinny tube. Watch the black dot until it completely disappears. Once it disappears, record the CYA reading. To help the eyes and prevent staring at the dot, some people find it better to pour & view in stages. Pour some solution into the viewing tube, look away, then look back again for the dot. Repeat as necessary until you feel the dot is gone. After the first CYA test, you can pour the mixed solution from the skinny view tube back to the mixing bottle, gently shake, and do the same test a second, third, or fourth time to instill consistency in your technique, become more comfortable with the testing, and validate your own CYA reading. Finally, if you still doubt your own reading, have a friend do the test with you and compare results.

To be sure you have no algae (in ANY form), we perform the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. This is very helpful to do before increasing the CYA level. So if there is ANY doubt about algae, especially if you just opened from winter, it's best to do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. It's just a matter of taking two accurate FC tests with your K-2006C kit. One test before bed and one early the next morning before the sun hits the water.

 

[Emahany]

That's usually from one of two things:
1 - Either there is excessive organic material in the water (like algae); it can be transparent so you may not see it.
2 - CYA is too low (below 30) and the sun's UV is grabbing all the free chlorine.

Below is my own cheat-cheat I like to pass along to help with the CYA test.



To be sure you have no algae (in ANY form), we perform the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. This is very helpful to do before increasing the CYA level. So if there is ANY doubt about algae, especially if you just opened from winter, it's best to do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. It's just a matter of taking two accurate FC tests with your K-2006C kit. One test before bed and one early the next morning before the sun hits the water.

That’s helpful .. Thankyou. Here is the problem with that lol. If I do chlorine test right now , there will be no chlorine . I’ll zap it tonight . By tomorrow afternoon there will be none again . I’m gonna mess with the testing kit now … I’ll post numbers I come up with lol
. Not very confident. I like hearing your thoughts on the transparent algae , because this pool is clean. It definitely smells sweet which I read in another post means organics.
Anyone in Orange County NY that knows how to do these tests , I’ll gladly pay you to show me. Lol. Alright I’m gonna try these tests now .

 

[V___25]

The only way CYA gets into your water is if you add it, either through tablets/pucks or by adding actual stabilizer either liquid or granules. If you haven't add any through either of those methods, then you may not have any which could by why your FC is disappearing super quick. If you don't have any or very little CYA, the dot test should be pretty easy in bright light - you should still see the dot all the way up to the top of the tube.

 

[Emahany]

The only way CYA gets into your water is if you add it, either through tablets/pucks or by adding actual stabilizer either liquid or granules. If you haven't add any through either of those methods, then you may not have any which could by why your FC is disappearing super quick. If you don't have any or very little CYA, the dot test should be pretty easy in bright light - you should still see the dot all the way up to the top of the tube.

Okay. So I did the tests. Before I report the results can someone tell me if the cya number should be recorded when the dot disappears completely or when it starts to fade ?

 

[Emahany]

Okay. So I did the tests. Before I report the results can someone tell me if the cya number should be recorded when the dot disappears completely or when it starts to fade ?

 

[jeffchap]

Okay. So I did the tests. Before I report the results can someone tell me if the cya number should be recorded when the dot disappears completely or when it starts to fade ?

Once you can glance at it quickly and not see it. It's not a real precise test - plus or minus 10 is close enough.

 

[Emahany]

Okay so I’ve been replying to replies .. so don’t know if anyone saw them.
But I saw the replies and appreciate them. I did the tests with the kit . Before I report the results , can someone please tell me if the dot is supposed to completely disappear or do you record the number when it starts getting faint ?

 

[jeffchap]

See my previous reply above.

 

[Emahany]

Once you can glance at it quickly and not see it. It's not a real precise test - plus or minus 10 is close enough.

Thanks. I could glance at it quickly and still see a faint dot as opposed to the obvious dot . At some point it does totally disappear. So I’m still not feeling accurate.

 

[Emahany]

Thanks. I could glance at it quickly and still see a faint dot as opposed to the obvious dot . At some point it does totally disappear. So I’m still not feeling accurate.

Was hoping for more feedback before I posted these numbers as I wanted to slam pool tonight.
I tried the test kit this afternoon
The ph and alkalinity tests were easy and exactly comparable to the results from the 3 different pool stores . 7.4 ph and 70 for the alkalinity.
When I tried to do the chlorine tests , I literally put 12 scoops in the sample and it was just about still clear . Maybe ,maybe a tiny hint of pink. I think that tells me there is no free chlorine , and it would be impossible to do the rest of the chlorine test . …… but ok not sure.
As far as the most important test , the cya , the black dot began to “dim” at 70 but disappeared at 45-50
I’m unclear as to whether the black dot should completely disappear from the top or just dim …
Remember , the 3 pool stores had my cya at 45 -49
Calcium was 180.
Here are pictures of how clear the pool is today. The test strips and the pool stores all say practically zero free chlorine , which is where this thread started. I can’t hold chlorine !!!!

 

[Emahany]

Was hoping for more feedback before I posted these numbers as I wanted to slam pool tonight.
I tried the test kit this afternoon
The ph and alkalinity tests were easy and exactly comparable to the results from the 3 different pool stores . 7.4 ph and 70 for the alkalinity.
When I tried to do the chlorine tests , I literally put 12 scoops in the sample and it was just about still clear . Maybe ,maybe a tiny hint of pink. I think that tells me there is no free chlorine , and it would be impossible to do the rest of the chlorine test . …… but ok not sure.
As far as the most important test , the cya , the black dot began to “dim” at 70 but disappeared at 45-50
I’m unclear as to whether the black dot should completely disappear from the top or just dim …
Remember , the 3 pool stores had my cya at 45 -49
Calcium was 180.
Here are pictures of how clear the pool is today. The test strips and the pool stores all say practically zero free chlorine , which is where this thread started. I can’t hold chlorine !!!!

 

[Texas Splash]

Good job on the testing! Your numbers make sense. So your pH and TA were quite good. Your CYA of about 50 is nice. You appear to have a vinyl pool, so actually CH doesn't apply to you unless it gets extremely high. So usually you don't have to even bother with the CH test unless you just want to practice it.

Now let's talk FC. That's the trouble one right there - Free Chlorine. Yours is about zero. Since you have a good CYA of about 50, we have to assume you have algae even though the water looks quite good. But you can tell it is a bit cloudy right? That's algae, and it's eating up your chlorine. So here's what you need to do, probably best to start fresh in the morning:

TESTING: Test FC as follows: A 10 ml water sample size with ONE generous scoop of R-0870 powder. That's it. Just one generous (slightly heaping) scoop. No more. If it doesn't turn pink with ONE scoop, you have zero FC. Done.

Now let's say you add that ONE scoop and it turns pink (which is good). You start mixing the sample and adding the drops of the R-0871 one at a time. Do that until it goes clear while counting the drops. Once it goes clear, take your number of drops and divide in half. Example - 20 drops equals an FC of 10. Make sense? Easy right?

 

[Texas Splash]

FRIDAY MORNING - Here's what I would like for you to do tomorrow morning.

1. If you have some muriatic acid, try to lower the pH down just a little bit more in preparation for the SLAM Process. A pH of about 7.2-7.4 will work.

2. Now for the FC (Have a good amount of chlorine ready!)
a) Using the PoolMath APP (Effects of Adding) to help you with the dosage amount, add enough chlorine to get the FC to 20. An FC of 20 is your SLAM FC level. From the post about an FC of 20 would be 40 drops when testing FC.
b) Once you add the required amount of chlorine, test again in 30 minutes. Normally you don't have to do it that quickly, but your chlorine is getting used-up very fast (for now), so you have to be aggressive and test often at first.
c) After that 30 minutes, if the FC fell, which it probably will, add enough chlorine to raise it back to 20.
d) Do this every 30 minutes until you see that the FC is holding. Once you see that it is holding, then you can start spreading out your testing intervals. Maybe 60 minutes, then a couple hours, then 3 hours. Eventually you should get to a point where the FC holds well enough that you only need to test the FC 2-3 times per day.

Once you at this point, now you can be sure to brush any areas that the cleaner can't reach. The important thing here is having enough chlorine on hand and being consistent right asway to keep the FC at that 20 level. Once the FC starts to hold, you have made HUGE progress. Reply back tomorrow and let us know how it goes.

 

[Emahany]

FRIDAY MORNING - Here's what I would like for you to do tomorrow morning.

1. If you have some muriatic acid, try to lower the pH down just a little bit more in preparation for the SLAM Process. A pH of about 7.2-7.4 will work.

2. Now for the FC (Have a good amount of chlorine ready!)
a) Using the PoolMath APP (Effects of Adding) to help you with the dosage amount, add enough chlorine to get the FC to 20. An FC of 20 is your SLAM FC level. From the post about an FC of 20 would be 40 drops when testing FC.
b) Once you add the required amount of chlorine, test again in 30 minutes. Normally you don't have to do it that quickly, but your chlorine is getting used-up very fast (for now), so you have to be aggressive and test often at first.
c) After that 30 minutes, if the FC fell, which it probably will, add enough chlorine to raise it back to 20.
d) Do this every 30 minutes until you see that the FC is holding. Once you see that it is holding, then you can start spreading out your testing intervals. Maybe 60 minutes, then a couple hours, then 3 hours. Eventually you should get to a point where the FC holds well enough that you only need to test the FC 2-3 times per day.

Once you at this point, now you can be sure to brush any areas that the cleaner can't reach. The important thing here is having enough chlorine on hand and being consistent right asway to keep the FC at that 20 level. Once the FC starts to hold, you have made HUGE progress. Reply back tomorrow and let us know how it goes.

I’ll start Saturday since I’m working tomorrow.
I’ve done exactly what you have suggested basically . For example. A few days ago I added 8 gallons of liquid shock . A few hour later the test strips showed ridiculously high free chlorine. 8 hours later 0.
I understand the importance of the test kit. But the results I got today were very close to the pool strips and exactly what the pool stores said. ! 3 of them. Of course that if I got the cya right. Nobody answered my question about the black dot ,. Although I think my range is still in the limits.
The pool math is telling me to add 4 gallons of liquid shock.
I have enough of that to let a few days assuming the fc drops the way it has.
Thanks for the replies.

 

[Texas Splash]

Nobody answered my question about the black dot ,

I thought I saw a reply above, but from your description 50 is the correct CYA. You could still see the dot at 70, but when you added more solution, looked away, then looked back, the bot was gone at about 50. So a CYA of 50 sounds good.

As for the previous FC testing, it's very important to understand test strips are like tossing hand grenades. You don't have to be accurate, just close. But with pool chemistry and here at TFP, we need precision. That's why the FAS-DPD (powder & drops) test for the FC is so important. You need that accuracy when you compare to the FC/CYA Levels. Test strips go by very wide "ranges". If you did that for each and every chemical, you could have wildly varied levels and never make progress.

The K-2006C test kit, with the FAS-DPD (powder & drops) is exactly what you need. Saturday morning, have everything ready and start with a fresh mind ready to add chlorine and test frequently as noted above. Once the FC breaks through the barrier of whatever is eating it up, your pool will finally hold chlorine the way it was designed.

For tonight and tomorrow, you can simply add one gallon of chlorine if you have some available. It's not the SLAM process, only something to help slow down the algae a bit until Saturday.

 

[Emahany]

FRIDAY MORNING - Here's what I would like for you to do tomorrow morning.

1. If you have some muriatic acid, try to lower the pH down just a little bit more in preparation for the SLAM Process. A pH of about 7.2-7.4 will work.

2. Now for the FC (Have a good amount of chlorine ready!)
a) Using the PoolMath APP (Effects of Adding) to help you with the dosage amount, add enough chlorine to get the FC to 20. An FC of 20 is your SLAM FC level. From the post about an FC of 20 would be 40 drops when testing FC.
b) Once you add the required amount of chlorine, test again in 30 minutes. Normally you don't have to do it that quickly, but your chlorine is getting used-up very fast (for now), so you have to be aggressive and test often at first.
c) After that 30 minutes, if the FC fell, which it probably will, add enough chlorine to raise it back to 20.
d) Do this every 30 minutes until you see that the FC is holding. Once you see that it is holding, then you can start spreading out your testing intervals. Maybe 60 minutes, then a couple hours, then 3 hours. Eventually you should get to a point where the FC holds well enough that you only need to test the FC 2-3 times per day.

Once you at this point, now you can be sure to brush any areas that the cleaner can't reach. The important thing here is having enough chlorine on hand and being consistent right asway to keep the FC at that 20 level. Once the FC starts to hold, you have made HUGE progress. Reply back tomorrow and let us know how it goes.

Ohh and I guarantee you that one heaping scoop will not turn the water pink !

 

[Texas Splash]

Ohh and I guarantee you that one heaping scoop will not turn the water pink !

Ha. I thought you were at work today? No pool work today.

 

[Emahany]

Alright . I’m attempting a slam
5 gallons in. I tested , 30 minutes later I came up with 17 fc
I’m assuming now I want to add 3 parts fc to get be back up to 20 hopefully. Which would be 1.5 gallons according to pool math .

 

[IceShadow]

Alright . I’m attempting a slam
5 gallons in. I tested , 30 minutes later I came up with 17 fc
I’m assuming now I want to add 3 parts fc to get be back up to 20 hopefully. Which would be 1.5 gallons according to pool math .

If you are using standard bleach at 6.25%, yes. If it's 10% or 12.5% chlorinating liquid/liquid shock it would be less.

 

[Emahany]

12 percent the pool math said 1.5 to get me 3 fc