Owner/Builder pool in Phoenix (Phase: Start-up!)

[proavia]

Our water here in Gilbert is super hard. We finished our pool last Feb. By fall the CH numbers were approaching the highest acceptable. We had to drain it to have some plaster smoothed out so we started over. I really don't want to drain it every year. I'm wondering how expensive it would be to add since we already have a whole house softener. Hopefully cheaper because $3000 is not in the budget.

Is the softener in the garage?
Can you run a soft water line thru the garage outer wall, down into the ground and to near where the autofill piping is?
If so, it can be done pretty easily.
Below is pretty much what I did - note, I don't have to be concerned about freezing temps where I live.

• Use copper pipe for all above ground piping in the garage and near the garge exit point
• Tap into the soft water line in the garage using a coppe tee
• Place a brass shut off valve (brass ball valve) in the line after the connection to soft water
• Run copper pipe thru a hole drilled in the garage wall at least 18" above grade
• On the outside of the garage, place a backflow preventer on the pipe where it comes out of the wall
• Run a copper pipe from the BFP straight down into the ground (at least 4-6 inches underground in the desert southwest, probable deeper elsewhere)
• Underground, convert the copper pipe to PVC (at least sched 40)
• Run PVC pipe all the way to your present autofill line (or dig down and find the lateral pipe nearer the autofill
• Tie into the existing autofill pipe
• Paint all exterior above ground pipe the color of the surface it is located on (copper and PVC)

I'm pretty sure you could do something similar with PEX pipe and run it thru the attic space (PEX shouldn't/can't be exposed to the outside elements or run underground). Convert back to copper or PVC where it exits the eave. Run it down the wall to a backflow preventer and then plumb to the autofill pipe. Paint any exposed exterior pipe (copper and PVC)

Of course, check your local codes for requirements.

 

[Winter247]

Started setting up the little above ground pool for the kids while the real pool is being built. lol... better than nothing when it's 115 degrees outside!

 

[kimkats]

Who are you trying to kid? We all know that is for YOU to cool off in after work!

 

[Nikilyn]

Is the softener in the garage?
Can you run a soft water line thru the garage outer wall, down into the ground and to near where the autofill piping is?
If so, it can be done pretty easily.
Below is pretty much what I did - note, I don't have to be concerned about freezing temps where I live.

• Use copper pipe for all above ground piping in the garage and near the garge exit point
• Tap into the soft water line in the garage using a coppe tee
• Place a brass shut off valve (brass ball valve) in the line after the connection to soft water
• Run copper pipe thru a hole drilled in the garage wall at least 18" above grade
• On the outside of the garage, place a backflow preventer on the pipe where it comes out of the wall
• Run a copper pipe from the BFP straight down into the ground (at least 4-6 inches underground in the desert southwest, probable deeper elsewhere)
• Underground, convert the copper pipe to PVC (at least sched 40)
• Run PVC pipe all the way to your present autofill line (or dig down and find the lateral pipe nearer the autofill
• Tie into the existing autofill pipe
• Paint all exterior above ground pipe the color of the surface it is located on (copper and PVC)

I'm pretty sure you could do something similar with PEX pipe and run it thru the attic space (PEX shouldn't/can't be exposed to the outside elements or run underground). Convert back to copper or PVC where it exits the eave. Run it down the wall to a backflow preventer and then plumb to the autofill pipe. Paint any exposed exterior pipe (copper and PVC)

Of course, check your local codes for requirements.

Thanks! I’ll show my husband. Maybe he can do it. He always does our yard sprinklers so should be able to lay the pipe for this.
Yes, it is in our garage. Our garage is on the side of our pool equipment but the softener is on the opposite side of the garage.

 

[proavia]

Thanks! I’ll show my husband. Maybe he can do it. He always does our yard sprinklers so should be able to lay the pipe for this.
Yes, it is in our garage. Our garage is on the side of our pool equipment but the softener is on the opposite side of the garage.

I'd suggest he consider running pipe up the wall and across the garage ceiling as close to the wall as possible. Using 1/2" copper pipe might be best in the garage (to better protect the pipe from damage. After exiting the garage, install a 1/2" backflow preventer, copper pipe into the groind and then to 1/2" schedule 40 PVC to mate up with the existing autofill plumbing.

1/2" copper is more economical than 3/4" copper - and will provide enough volume for the autofill.

 

[Winter247]

Water softener was is installed. Kind of a crazy install, but so far I think it's going to work for everything I need. I didn't have a water loop to tie into so they had to get creative. Couple of funky connections but with paint and landscaping it should be fine.

Soft water for the house, backyard, side yard and pool autofill connection
Hard water (bypass) for irrigation in backyard and side yard, plus room for pool auto fill connection

Ordering equipment this week once I make up my mind on the Hayward automation. OmniPL vs OmniLogic (HL base)

 

[thewolf56]

Water softener was is installed. Kind of a crazy install, but so far I think it's going to work for everything I need. I didn't have a water loop to tie into so they had to get creative. Couple of funky connections but with paint and landscaping it should be fine.

Soft water for the house, backyard, side yard and pool autofill connection
Hard water (bypass) for irrigation in backyard and side yard, plus room for pool auto fill connection

Ordering equipment this week once I make up my mind on the Hayward automation. OmniPL vs OmniLogic (HL base)

That is a crazy install, but I like it!

You may need to put some labels on that after you paint, especially for the hose bibs by your water main.

 

[Winter247]

That is a crazy install, but I like it!

You may need to put some labels on that after you paint, especially for the hose bibs by your water main.

Yeah definitely going to label them and color code them!

 

[Winter247]

Some of my equipment showed up. I had a concern about pool hardware (drains, IFCS heads etc) and selecting the right color. Our plan is to do Pebble Brilliance Aqua Falls for our color. My consultant said LIGHT GREY is the preferred hardware color for Aqua Falls. I hope he's correct. I haven't been able to find anywhere to reference this.... does anyone else know where I can check that? or just know from experience? I really want the IFCS heads and other hardware to match the finish as best as possible. My initial thought was Euro Blue, so I was a little surprised to here Light Grey was preferred. Any chance anyone has photos of light grey IFCS heads in a blue pool?

*Yes, I realize this is the type of thing I hired him for, but it's just in my nature to double check everything and learn as much as possible in the process.

 

[kimkats]

That is the best color for them! Good choose!

 

[Nikilyn]

I don’t have those exact colors but they are similar. We have aqua white and have the blue drain covers. I’ll have to take a picture so you can see. I also have white umbrella sleeves in the Baja step.

 

[Nikilyn]

Not the greatest picture but it's on my phone.
Here's the spa.

Here's the white umbrella holder. Probably should have gone with grey but I thought I was getting white quartz when I ordered them. Oh well. I'm fine with it.

 

[Winter247]

Permits are approved and equipment is ordered!

Starting to collect bids. Gotta say, some of these estimates seem a little crazy. Layout, excavation, steel... all seem like relatively what I expected. However, the one shotcrete quote I've gotten back so far seems high. I won't post which company, but the bid came back at just over $20,000. It's a 30 x 19 play pool with a raised spa. (It's 34 cubic yards, they quoted 38) $20k is basically double the prices I keep finding online for other similar projects around the country. Am I wrong here? Is it a supply shortage thing?

Also, I started this project last September hoping to avoid construction during the hottest months of the year. That didn't work out. So my question is this: Wouldn't it be a bad idea to have shotcrete (gunite) done when it's 110 degrees out? Won't that lead to cracking or other issues? Just wondering if I should be worried about my current timeline...

 

[kimkats]

Here is info about shooting shells and what you can do to help the cure properly:

Watering New Gunite and Concrete - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

I am thinking YOUR time line is not really yours. The availability of the crew is what is going to decide when it can be done

 

[proavia]

With respect to the water softener. I suggest you fabricate some type of cover for the softener and brine tank. The AZ sun and heat will eventually reek havoc on the black plastic brine tank and plastic top/controls on the softener tank. It's possible a vertical Rubbermaid shed would work (but measure it all first) or built a sold 2x4 frame amd cover with T111 siding painted to match the house color. A slightly pitched roof with a few asphalt singles will shed the rain.

Be sure there is some type of backflow preventor on the autofill line.

 

[Winter247]

With respect to the water softener. I suggest you fabricate some type of cover for the softener and brine tank. The AZ sun and heat will eventually reek havoc on the black plastic brine tank and plastic top/controls on the softener tank. It's possible a vertical Rubbermaid shed would work (but measure it all first) or built a sold 2x4 frame amd cover with T111 siding painted to match the house color. A slightly pitched roof with a few asphalt singles will shed the rain.

Be sure there is some type of backflow preventor on the autofill line.

That's good advice. Thanks! Luckily the tank is located on the Northeast corner of the house and only gets direct sunlight for a couple hours in the morning. The top has a cover for it, but I was debating building something for the brine tank. Likely going to do that now that you bring it up. I'll add the backflow preventer to my notes! Much appreciated.

 

[thewolf56]

Permits are approved and equipment is ordered!

Starting to collect bids. Gotta say, some of these estimates seem a little crazy. Layout, excavation, steel... all seem like relatively what I expected. However, the one shotcrete quote I've gotten back so far seems high. I won't post which company, but the bid came back at just over $20,000. It's a 30 x 19 play pool with a raised spa. (34 cubic yards) $20k is basically double the prices I keep finding online for other similar projects around the country. Am I wrong here? Is it a supply shortage thing?

Also, I started this project last September hoping to avoid construction during the hottest months of the year. That didn't work out. So my question is this: Wouldn't it be a bad idea to have shotcrete (gunite) done when it's 110 degrees out? Won't that lead to cracking or other issues? Just wondering if I should be worried about my current timeline...

Wow! I know some bids in my area varied quite a bit (if you could get them), but your per cubic yard rate is $470! (have to look at the overbreak charge as that is closest to a pure material charge). I know that there is a shortage in our area and material suppliers are rationing the amount the shotcrete crews get per week (I've heard as allotting as little as 50 yards per week), but that price is close to doubling in a very short period of time. I wish could help you get with your bids on this one, but the guy I used seems to have disappeared for the people trying to get a hold of him now.

 

[Nikilyn]

Wow!

 

[Winter247]

Wow! I know some bids in my area varied quite a bit (if you could get them), but your per cubic yard rate is $470! (have to look at the overbreak charge as that is closest to a pure material charge). I know that there is a shortage in our area and material suppliers are rationing the amount the shotcrete crews get per week (I've heard as allotting as little as 50 yards per week), but that price is close to doubling in a very short period of time. I wish could help you get with your bids on this one, but the guy I used seems to have disappeared for the people trying to get a hold of him now.

Yeah, I'm really hoping that turns out to be an outlier bid. What's not encouraging though is that another TFP user got a bid from the same contractor 2 months ago for a few cubic feet MORE than mine and his bid was $5k LESS! Crazy times....

 

[thewolf56]

Yeah, I'm really hoping that turns out to be an outlier bid. What's not encouraging though is that another TFP user got a bid from the same contractor 2 months ago for a few cubic feet MORE than mine and his bid was $5k LESS! Crazy times....

Wow. That is not encouraging. Crossing my fingers that some good bids go your way.

Do you know what the pre-wire is? And the wash-out tub is probably a 5' plastic kiddie pool...