Our green monster! oh no!

I am gonna tell on myself I couldn't stand it any longer and got into shallow end.. Bottom feels clean and now slime sand or anything in areas I was in.. Water feels great on the skin, very soft, but still can not see a white object more than 12 to 18 inches under ...

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AllMar,

Dare I say . . . you could consider alum flocculant at this point?

According to AllMar, chemistry looks OK. Metals as a question have been eliminated. Been SLAM'd and passes OCLT but water is not clear. Now been a couple of weeks of filtering with no real improvement. However, the pool still looks a little green to me. Normally it would be a milky white or white very light green.

This looks like a problem on this forum a month or so ago but that water was not as green looking. Look for a post that says "Helping a friend: This should be a good one". Near the end there is a lot of discussion about flocc-ing with alum which eventually helped to solve the problem. The history of that pool was that it was also unused for a long time and had wheelbarrow loads of gunk in it. After SLAM-ing there remained a lot of suspended fine particles that were too fine for the filter to get out. Read the post and make your call.

If it were me, I would give the alum flocculant a try at this point. From my own experience alum works much better than the liquid flocs. You can get the alum at the pool store and it will have instructions on the label about what to do. You will be doing a lot of vacuuming to waste after an alum floc so be sure you can do that -- vacuum working and you can replenish your water and you have a place to dump the waste water to.

Disclaimer:
Alum is not a magic bullet and should only be considered when all other options have been exhausted and straight filtration is not doing the job -- all organic muck removed, water chemistry is good (no algae, etc). SLAM'd and OCLT passed but water not clear. Filtered for some time with no improvement.

Bill
 
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We're going to advise not adding anything else to the water at this point until AllMar's primary thread advisor (Swampwoman) is able to come-back on-line. Certainly lots of things to consider, but we don't want to overload the original poster, and we must always be concerned with the side effects of adding anything other than our standard recommended chemicals per Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals.
 
I'm with you Texas!! Every pool is different. What worked great for one, might not work for the other.
Let the primary have a chance to work through what has been written by the pool owners and work through her wonderful brain.
 
My apologies. I don't mean to hijack or walk all over someone else who is giving the advice. I will defer to the gurus.

AllMar -- please stick to the advice of the OPs or the primary thread advisor.

Admins -- please remove my previous post if it is ill-advised or not appropriate.

Thanks,
Bill
 
Thanks Bill. We know you meant well. We all do. But this thread has gone on for so long now, with questionable results, we better let one person keep a lid on it just so we don't overwhelm our original poster. You had good intentions. Have a nice day.
 
If you are passing the OCLT and the CC is below.5 then what you need is a whole lot of P.O.P. (pool owner patience). It took a while for the pool to get in the state it was when you started and it will take a while for it to clear. Non-chemical things you can do to help speed the process are to add DE to the sand filter which I think you have already tried, adding a knee high stocking to your skimmer basket to help catch the fine particles, or adding a slime bag or other micro filtration bag to the return. Something else you may try is after the last chlorine addition of the evening is mixed in well, turn off the pump and let the pool rest overnight. Some of the debris should settle on the floor and may be carefully vacuumed to waste the next day. You may want to try this when you have a day off to do the vacuuming part.

Stick with Swampwoman's advice for conducting the slam. I think you are going to see a real difference very soon!
 

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Hi all. Please don't wait on me for offering up good suggestions as I'm not online a ton due to a work project right now ;) I actually like all the suggestions...including in this case perhaps flocking with alum if vacuuming to waste is a solid option.

But let's review, Allmar, to try to dx next steps: Correct any wrong assumptions -- in fact, please confirm each so people can see at a glance what the clue trail is ;)

1. You have passed OCLT 3 nights in a row, meaning with FC above 10 after dark, you've lost less than 1 ppm before dawn each time. (For any suggestions below to be valid, this one has to be dead on accurate.)

2. However, the water is cloudy beyond 18" and appears to have a green tint, with sparkly crystals of fine particulate.

3. You removed copper pennies and a rusty bucket (iron) from the pool. There is visible iron staining on your steps. AND you're on a well...

4. You have a sand filter for which at the beginning of the season
A) a pool tech changed sand and replaced spider gasket
B) you or hubby changed sand and replaced spider gasket
(Please tell us which. If pool tech changed it, ask him what brand of sand. There has been a MIS-labelling event at a sand mfg this season, and while rare, its possible you got a batch that's finer than meant for a pool)

5. The pool store has told you you have no metals in your water AND that you have a TA of 10...when you yourself read 100 ;)

===========

Concerns:
1. I have no way to tell if your filter is actually functioning properly, though your psi rides roughly where mine does.

2. I can't "prove it" but I'm a monkey's uncle if you don't have metals in that water, if only from rotten pennies and a bucket...but being on a well, its highly unusual not to have SOME.

3. We have no way of knowing what products the former owners used, or if foreclosure (was it?) what kind of quick fixes a property marketing co. might have tried. Cloudiness/crystals could be from prior metal treatments combining with calcium, each other, sulphates etc.

Possible Proposed Next Steps - please understand this is just my best stab

1. Let your FC come down to 9. Test your TA and PH. Confirm that your TA is, say, not belw 50 or 60, and certainly not 10. If it really IS 10, adjust up. Adjust your ph to 7.2 if you plan (in a bit) to use Jack's, or to 7.5 or 7.6 if Metal Magic. (I would do this. See reason below.)

2. As Zea said, first let the filter try a bit more, try a slow vac after shutting off overnight to settle. Confirm that when you vacuum to waste, its going to waste and nothing's askew with the multiport via the spider gasket.

3. If by the weekend, the vacuuming and filtering has not improved clarity by 50% or more, AND vacuum to waste is working fine, then get some alum flock, apply per instructions of mfg per wrobert's suggestion, wait 24 hrs with pump off, and thoroughly, carefully, vacuum to waste.

4. You will need to top up with well water. If you have a reading on your well water for copper, iron and maganese, please post. But in this case, just to even clean the stairs, I'm going to bet two bottles of Metal Magic will be worth their weight in gold. If you use it, you will need to let FC drift down for initial application. So plan ahead.

If you want to see how much it will take to clean the stairs, check out the sponge test (I'll add link). http://www.proteampoolcare.com/images/uploads/MetalMagicSpongeTest.pdf

5. After the above, at a min., if your filter is working properly and you have correctly sized sand, and no outbreaks of algae by maintaining your FC to normal range for your CYA except for the day you use the sequestrant, you *should* be in the clear.

If after doing the above, you clear (after floc) and then cloud slightly after sequestrant (you might for about 3 days), it suggests your filter isn't keeping up with metal removal.

But if your water clears from the floc, but then clouds back up for an extended period, I would be regarding the filter with suspicion ;)

I know this seems like a complicated set of if-thens. I'm just trying to help you sort a way forward.
 
Side note: You already have a lot to digest, but before I head off to a long day, I do want to note that I've checked out your filter specs.

That s190 is mostly recommended for above ground and "small" in ground pools. You appear to have a deep end, so I'm guessing maybe 22,000 gallons at your size?

I would not go any smaller than a 220T, larger is even better when you're able to upgrade.

The floc suggestion my well work, but it will be more because you're removing the demand on the filter than anything else, in essence, lightening its load of particulate ;)

If you prefer not to try the floc, don't intend to change the filter size for a while, and have enough patience left for more filtering, the Slimebag (just one with return attachment) might be a worthwhile investment particularly since you're on a well and may have a high sediment rate. Here's that link again too: The Slime Bag | The Easiest Way To Maintain Crystal Clear Pool Water.
 
1. Yes in fact cc is still <.5 and chlorine is still staying up quite well even with 85+ degrees and full sun..

2. Yes very cloudy blue green tint but also grayish. Sparkly only in direct sunlight more of a slightly see thru beige color..

3. Yes orangish stain on steps and over 20 pennies and a can like dog food or canned veggies come in.. I say dog food because he bred dogs here..

4. B hubby did.. I found a bag it is quicrete pool sand but it is identical to sand in bucket that he removed from filter. Not too fine or too course. I know its not playsand as my grandson has a sand box and this looks completely different.. Did a hose test in each and both new sand and old acted the same when pushing hose into it..

5. Yes even though he used strips he did test on well water and pool water. He showed us the strips and not a trace on each...yes his reading on TA was 10 perhaps he didn't add the extra 0 on it, that might make sense, he did have a few disruptions during test..

Concerns:
1. I agree with that but it appears to be doing what it is supposed to do. When we get a small amount of de in it and it levels out after about 5 mins, we think OK got this time sit down a wait for the slow down of return, it starts bubbling and we go look psi is up around eight psi above start, hubby found he can turn it off a couple minutes and it will restart at start up psi and do OK for about another 10 mins.. Repeat a couple times then backflush. However even thought it has a different tint that just water, cannot tell if it's just de coming out?

2. I'm with you it has to have at least a little copper from those corroded pennies..

3. Oh so true. Was not foreclosure but was a single dad with small child my understanding was that he worked all the time and didnt care for the pool. It was never clear even when first listed.

Next steps..

1. I am gonna try to let it ride down and run full tests then I will consider the Metal Magic..
2. We are still doing DE when we can but with no DE we are getting no rise in psi even overnite..
3. Pool store guy said cellulose was better than DE. True or not?
4. We are using quilt batting and filtering when we add now not sure it will help much but we had some from our saltwater fish tank so figured it would hurt, also added some to skimmer basket last night...
5. Will check on alum floc. Not sure about that will update if we go that route..

Thank you so very much for the time u have invested in us, we appreciate all you have done to try and help..I posting a pix of pool and also if I can get uploaded couple pix hubby took of a bottle of water hubby took from pool a few days ago.. It's sitting in the sun next to the pool. No algae growth cap on but you can see what we have in the water settled to bottom and what it looks like when he swirled bottle. Hopefully I can get them on here.. If not I will try to get a couple as good as he did.
Many thanks again!

Allan and Mary
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I just decided to go out a collect some water in a glass jar to see how it looks. The sparkles appear to be tiny tiny air bubbles.. They are rising to the top and settling.. I can also finally see that the liner is white with blue pebbles or blotches so some improve ment on that. I can see it about 8 to 10 inches down the side.. Appears to be less stuff in water but still very cloudy..
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