Orenda SC1000 and zero chlorine (+ new SWG cell)

[hlwimmer]

Installed new Jandy TruClear cell after first one went bad after 5 years … no biggie. First day, the new cell performed well, it seemed. Thought I’d treat it well and added 32oz of SC1000 to the 10Kgal pool as scale has always been a problem. Fast forward 5 days, pool chlorine (total and free) is at zero even after a 24H boost on the cell. All other chems are within acceptable ranges. Salt is at 3200. On the 4th day, I removed and inspected the cell to find it is covered with a weird flaked scale (vs. the typical cruddy scale). Cell gently cleaned and reinstalled… no difference.

Did the cell go bad within a week or is the SC1000 messing things up? Solutions? Should I SLAM the pool and hope the SWG comes back to life?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

It’s probably the SC1000. Any chelating agent that removes calcium can also affect the transition metal coatings on the plates (ruthenium in this case). You need to be very careful with what products you add to the pool.

I suggest pulling the cell and then very gently cleaning it using white cleaning vinegar that is diluted 1:1 with fresh water. Fill the cell, gently shake it around, let it sit for 5mins and then rinse it out. Then put the cell back into service. Hopefully that corrects the issue.

The best way to deal with scale is not with chemicals but with keeping your water balanced. If your CH is high then you need to lower it by doing water exchange. Keep your CSI in check between -0.3 and 0 and you’ll never have to worry about scale.

 

[hlwimmer]

It’s probably the SC1000. Any chelating agent that removes calcium can also affect the transition metal coatings on the plates (ruthenium in this case). You need to be very careful with what products you add to the pool.

I suggest pulling the cell and then very gently cleaning it using white cleaning vinegar that is diluted 1:1 with fresh water. Fill the cell, gently shake it around, let it sit for 5mins and then rinse it out. Then put the cell back into service. Hopefully that corrects the issue.

The best way to deal with scale is not with chemicals but with keeping your water balanced. If your CH is high then you need to lower it by doing water exchange. Keep your CSI in check between -0.3 and 0 and you’ll never have to worry about scale.

thanks... I think it was indeed the SC-1000 (which I'm now in hater-mode over). a week later, everything seems like it's performing as intended.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Not to get into the weeds but it’s not ruthenium metal that acts as the catalytic coating to help generate chlorine gas but rather ruthenium oxide that is the catalyst. Strong acid cleaning and chelating agents affects the ability of ruthenium metal to form the necessary thin oxide layer on the surface that acts as the catalyst. So if a cell is aggressively cleaned and a chelating agent is added which will impede oxide growth, it renders the plates less effective until the chelating agent breaks down.

This is another reason why we don’t suggest strong acid cleaning but rather just mechanical water pressure to break up any calcium mush on the plates.

 

[hlwimmer]

Not to get into the weeds but it’s not ruthenium metal that acts as the catalytic coating to help generate chlorine gas but rather ruthenium oxide that is the catalyst. Strong acid cleaning and chelating agents affects the ability of ruthenium metal to form the necessary thin oxide layer on the surface that acts as the catalyst. So if a cell is aggressively cleaned and a chelating agent is added which will impede oxide growth, it renders the plates less effective until the chelating agent breaks down.

This is another reason why we don’t suggest strong acid cleaning but rather just mechanical water pressure to break up any calcium mush on the plates.

The weeds are a fine place to be ... and a good place to learn. Thanks for the input.

For now, the SWG seems to be ok... damaged by the SC1000 and required cleaning of an otherwise brand new cell? we'll see... but I'll be very careful with Orenda products from now on. Why specifically Orenda? While they make some potentially good stuff, any manufacturer that obfuscates information as significant as this is not to be trusted overall, imho... especially when they have not answered a help-desk email in a week.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

The weeds are a fine place to be ... and a good place to learn. Thanks for the input.

For now, the SWG seems to be ok... damaged by the SC1000 and required cleaning of an otherwise brand new cell? we'll see... but I'll be very careful with Orenda products from now on. Why specifically Orenda? While they make some potentially good stuff, any manufacturer that obfuscates information as significant as this is not to be trusted overall, imho... especially when they have not answered a help-desk email in a week.

I don’t think they know or really care all that much. I find that most of the pool industry isn’t at all like other technical industries that tries to improve themselves with knowledge, understanding, collaboration on standards. It’s more of a “sell whatever you can” mindset and let the end user deal with the issues. Even in the world of SWGs, there’s tons of knowledge and science out there from the chlorine gas industry (electrolysis of brine has been an understood science for well over 100 years) but the pool industry just seems to be willingly oblivious to most of it. As long as they sell an electrolytic cell, who cares how to improve it or train technicians or help customers out … a sale is all that matters. Same is true with the pool chemical industry - as long as they can legitimately sell a product and not run afoul of federal or state regulations, who cares if it is actually advisable to use it or not, a sale is a sale. As the consumer you buy the product knowingly and fully responsible for its use and misuse, the manufacturer is not liable for anything as long as they have complied with all federal, state, and local regulations.