Opening my pool and want to do it real nice this time

[MITBeta]

This forum will not provide advice based on pool store testing.

Many have advised you that your next move should be to replace at least half the water in your pool. Whether that's draining and refilling or doing a No Drain Water Exchange is your choice, but that's the advice that everyone here has for you.

 

[monsterman]

Hello and thank u for ur patience.. I just came from Leslie's pool and they test the water also- as you know- just to see how close my numbers are-- the picture attached shows my results-- My CYA was close- I came out with 120 from the Diluted test. And my chlorine this morning was 13 ppm. I just brushed and am now robot vacuuming the pool-- As you know with such high CYA I want to keep my chlorine levels up a bit as youJust suggested- take a look at their results and maybe tell me how much liquid chlorine I should put in? I think they are close because my chlorine should have dropped since the sun was out very strong today. So where do I go from here- the pool is still aqua- I guess thats OK- but I would like to get it a bit clearer?
And my FC is 10.57 what is TC- and is that number bad/good or what?

hello Deb- maybe you can help me--because right now I am not draining my pool as the other person keeps telling me to do so I just tested and my ph is about 8.0 and the FC is now 16 drops- so it is just 8-- what should I do-- how much do I need to raise it to 9 and a bit over to keep it sanitized with the liquid chlorine-please advise asap. I just checked pool math and it says I need 56 ounces to reach the goal of 12 ppm--- recommended is 9-14 but the current is 8 and the target free is 12 and then it shows the amount add- so I will do that now.

 

[monsterman]

again this for Deb if you will-- My wife thinks I am nuts and says we never had to do this before-- so let me ask you a layman's question-- If at normalcy you only need 3-5 ppm of chlorine with a normal CYA - why can't I just keep my chlorine level at 9-10 ppm with my high cya-- and if I manage that constantly- wouldn't that, in reality, the same thing -just keeping the chlorine level at this higher ppm( and if use 65% cal hypo I would need 9.1 ounces-- it s like I used to do- add a bag of shock EVERY week and that worked- if it did NOT I would say yes I have to fix this- but it worked for over 10 years- so why can't it work again. And as you said earlier- at the end of this short season- I will then drain the pool with my closing man and start anew next year-- what is so bad about how I am thinking?

 

[Deb04]

Re post 303,
step 1. Don’t go to a pool store to testing again, and if you do, DONT TELL US ABOUT IT. Its just going to make us all crazy.
step 2. There’s a whole lot of info in the past 16 pages and I couldn’t go through everything carefully, but IF a you have 10,000 and IF you’re using 12.5 liquid chlorin, 41 oz would get your FC up 4 to 12. I suggest using a quart since you’re draining and therefore you no longer have 10,000 gallons and there’s not a lot of sense in putting in chemicals that are going right back out.

 

[Newdude]

so I just tested and my ph is about 8.0

12 ounces of 31% muriatic acid will lower the PH to 7.6.

FC is now 16 drops- so it is just 8-- what should I do-- how much do I need to raise it to 9 and a bit over to keep it sanitized with the liquid chlorine

42 oz of chlorine will get you to 11 FC. I'd go a few glugs more than that myself.

My wife thinks I am nuts and says we never had to do this before

You finally have a way to see what's going on in your pool. If you never met us, you'd be ignorantly making chemical soup still, and this year would be a disaster. You found us on the edge of spinning out of control. You're barely holding on, but still have some grip left.

If at normalcy you only need 3-5 ppm of chlorine with a normal CYA - why can't I just keep my chlorine level at 9-10 ppm with my high cya-- and if I manage that constantly- wouldn't that, in reality, the same thing -just keeping the chlorine level at this higher ppm

You may totally run a higher FC per your CYA level. 9 is min, 13 to 15 is your daily target.

what is so bad about how I am thinking?

The old way made this mess. It's about to get alot worse if you don't maintain the 13 to 15 FC. Maintaining such a high FC will get expensive and many have tried. Many, many, for that matter. You have to realize my friend. We have had over 1/3 of a million members spanning 15 years. This is not our first rodeo. We have seen most situations thousands of times, and learned from them.

The offer to help you will always stand, if you're willing to listen. We take zero joy when people go a different way and it doesn't work out. We only want you to succeed.

 

[Deb04]

Re post 304:
You can do that (as I keep saying, your pool, your decision. You can fill it with mud if you want to) and you might be able to limp along this year. BUT, it goes against our method of testing daily and adjusting when needed. If you add a bag of “shock“ weekly, your FC will drop over the course of the week and then will be super high right after you add the chlorine. The FC will likely be too low to keep bacteria away from your grandson on some days and will be too high to be comfortable on skin and eyes on others.

Seriously, you’ve asked the same questions multiple times and we’ve all answered the same thing, albeit with different words. We have our method. It works. We’ve shown you the science behind it. If you don’t want to use it, that’s ok. We won’t be insulted. But you got to stop going off “the deep end.“ I understand your wife isn’t happy. I have a spouse too and I get marital harmony. Every marriage if different and what you can say and not say is different. But I would tell my husband, “if you don’t like the way I’m managing the pool, you do the research and figure it out.” (Don’t blame me if you do tell her that and she flips out though. )

I can’t tell you how many times my husband has said “Thank God you found TFP when we were still building our pool.“. And “ if you died first I’m going to sign on to TFP and beg them to help me, the poor lonely widower with no pool knowledge.“

 

[Kaylee34]

-sigh-

I just came from Leslie's pool and they test the water also- as you know- just to see how close my numbers are-

Why would you trust a computer test that probably hasn't been calibrated since the store opened and that was most likely performed by someone that knows little more than the right buttons to push?

Trust your own testing! It's a small miracle Leslie's testing was anywhere near your own. The testing methods and recommendations used here at TFP have been tried and proven time and time again. They're backed by science. Real, independent scientists with pools of their own and absolutely NOTHING to gain by volunteering their time here. The Leslie's franchise exists for one reason and one reason only. To make money. They make money off selling chemicals to "fix" problems the chemicals they sell you created. When it's past the point of "fixing" they tell you you have to drain and refill.

My wife thinks I am nuts and says we never had to do this before-- so let me ask you a layman's question-- If at normalcy you only need 3-5 ppm of chlorine with a normal CYA - why can't I just keep my chlorine level at 9-10 ppm with my high cya-- and if I manage that constantly- wouldn't that, in reality, the same thing -just keeping the chlorine level at this higher ppm( and if use 65% cal hypo I would need 9.1 ounces-- it s like I used to do- add a bag of shock EVERY week and that worked- if it did NOT I would say yes I have to fix this- but it worked for over 10 years- so why can't it work again.

LOL!!! If you're nuts then over 350 thousand of us are nuts too!

The old way might work for awhile longer. But when it doesn't, what will you do then? Because it is inevitable that the old way isn't going to work much longer. Personally, I hate change. I'd be resisting too if I were in your shoes. But instead of looking at it as a new way or an old way, why not try looking at it as possibly a better way? But in the end, it's your pool. Manage it how you see fit.

You're a pharmacist, so I'll toss out a little comparison for you......
Your pool is a diabetic.
Think of chlorine as insulin.....
"Shock" once a week is like giving your pool a massive done of insulin all at once. You've over done it, then it drops too low. It's a wild chemical roller coaster.
Testing and adding a little bit of liquid chlorine every day is managing the need AS it's needed. The "insulin" level doesn't go through massive peaks and valleys. It stays much more stable and it's a smoother ride. The body (your water) stays healthier and has far less complications.

Using liquid chlorine has the advantage of NOT adding things you pool doesn't need. Any solid form of chlorine has some type of additive to make it stable. Either calcium or CYA. There's simply no avoiding that. So if there's possibly a better drug to deliver and manage the "insulin" without spikes, drops and unnecessary additives, who would advise against it?

 

[clambert1273]

But I would tell my husband, “if you don’t like the way I’m managing the pool, you do the research and figure it out.”

Omg I tell my husband this every spring

 

[dfwnoob]

I just came from Leslie's pool and they test the water also- as you know- just to see how close my numbers are

Sir, I implore you to understand that you have this backwards. Their testing happens to be close to yours, not the other way around. You have the gold standard of water testing at your house already - stop going to the the pool store. Their testing is trash. They do not exist to help you. They do not care whether or not your water is clean. They do not care if your grandchildren get rashes or infections from poorly sanitized water. They DO care about lightening your wallet.

Follow the advice Newdude has given you on multiple pages of this thread and your pool will be perfect. If you want us to dig up the published research papers done by Richard Falk and others over the years, we are more than happy to do so. Will Leslie's do that for you?

 

[Mdragger88]

so what you are saying is to buy another long hose(and connect them and do the refilling and adding at the same time- (is the best way if I end up doing this procedure?) and should as I have read do the draining with the pump near the top of the pool and the refilling put the hose at the bottom of the pool?=because someone on this thread said CYA lays on top and rises as does heat?

The cya doesn’t “lay on top” its more about water temp difference and a couple other factors that prevent the water from mixing during the process.
Please understand that Sequestrants only “hide” metals temporarily they don’t remove them. They have their place but they aren’t the total answer.
The only way to remove the metals is to replace the water.
I doubt your municipal fill water contains high enough levels of metals to cause long term problems compared to the water you’re replacing as that’s generally a problem with well water but if you are concerned you can always have your fill water tested for metals at the pool store. That is the only testing we ever recommend you have done there. Not because its the best but because home metals tests are expensive.
You can use a hose end filter if you wish.
Some people need to use a combination of things if their fill water contains metals.

Metals - Further Reading

www.google.com

Regardless of suspected metals- your cya is too high so it must be remedied. Once you do this & discontinue use of things that foul up the water there shouldn’t be a need to do it in the future.

 

[Mdragger88]

That is what i was saying- i have a hose on the side of my home and one in the back where the pool is-- BUT the hose on the side of the home will not reach the pool so I would have to buy a longer hose that will? See what I mean-and if i do this procedure- how do I know when to stop- since the draining and filling are being done together- so how would I know when enough is enough

It is mentioned in the article but basically you adjusted your fill water hose to the same output rate as your submersible pump hose- you then use something you can measure with (often a 5 gallon bucket) & see how long it takes to fill the bucket. Example: If it’s 1 minute then that’s 5 gallons/minute so you want to replace about 6,000 gallons - so 1,200 minutes = 20 hours- @Newdude should check my maths. I have had a long day

 

[RLP]

Owning a pool does indeed involve a bit of work. Sometimes more than other times.

its kind of like owning a car. You change the oil on a regular basis. But at some point, the engine will simply wear out and need an overhaul. You rotate the tires, but at some point they will wear out and need to be replaced. But once you embrace this method, and get the water to where you need to be the maintenance becomes alot less.


Sir if the methods that you used to maintain your pool for the past 10 years worked so well, then why did you end up here?

 

[Mdragger88]

The reason I ask about the pH- is because the upper values of the YELLOW color are almost indistinguishable- so hard to tell the true number associated with the color? If you know what I mean

The ph test is phenol red drops & they go on the right side (red side) of the comparator block. The left side (yellow side) of the comparator block is for the tc (total chlorine) test & uses the yellow oto drops - it only goes to 5ppm & is just a quick (do i have any chlorine or not?) kind of test. Its not very accurate.
Stick with the powder fas/dpd test for accurate free chlorine & cc testing.
Use the speed stir for all tests with the cylinder. I leave mine wedged in the kit & use it from there.

 

[Mdragger88]

This is the only number you should pay attention to from the pool store test & the only one we remotely trust.
The copper level is high enough to cause the green water, hair, nails, staining we told you about.
You can & should maintain a higher fc to compensate for your cya if you wish to carry on this way but that won’t help you with your copper problem. Also, As you have already experienced it’s hard to maintain ph with such a high cya level as well since you need to flirt with minimum to accurately test ph.

 

[Kaylee34]

This is the only number you should pay attention to from the pool store test & the only one we remotely trust.
The copper level is high enough to cause the green water, hair, nails, staining we told you about.

Also to reiterate, the copper source is most likely one or more of the products you've been using until now. The ONLY way to get rid of the copper is to replace the water and stop adding it back in the pool.

 

[kjdiver]

The members on this site are the most willing and helpful people on any forums I’ve been on. My pool has been easy peasy and crystal clear since the day I joined this site and have learned so much.

 

[kstoutdog]

Montek, we need an update!
I've read all 300+ posts and need some closure to this story

 

[monsterman]

hello, all it is now June 16t-- I have been a good old boy. I am brushing the pool daily. I have been robot vacuuming the pool almost every other day and just today I manually vacuumed to waste and added some more water to replace what was lost. Just to inform everyone- when I opened the pool I think it was around June 2 or so- I ONLY added Liquid chlorine and NOTHING else. The only other chemical I used was Clarifier (1-2 ounces in the cap)- and stirred it around and then let it sit for a day and then manually vacuumed that up to waste also. My pool has turned that bluish tint which makes me feel good and so far I have nothing else but small amounts of chlorine either daily or every other day. I have been testing using the TF100 AND the strips for quick reference(right or wrong it is what it is). My CYA has dropped from last year's 176 to RIGHT now it is 95(below 100- I am thrilled) and if I keep doing what I am doing throughout the season- it will drop even further as long as I only use liquid chlorine and calcium hypochlorite shock. last week My CYA on 06/05 was 113 and on 06/11 it was 104 and now it is 95. My chlorine started on 06/05 at 10.57 then on 06/11 it was 6.39 and today it is 4.47. I want to raise it up since the CYA is still high so tonight for the first time I am going to SHOCK the pol with about 10 ounces of the 16-ounce bag only and see what happens. it is trial and error for me right now until I get a pattern going. My pH- on 06/05 was 7.9 and on 06/11 was 8 and today it is 8- BUT we just had a huge rainstorm- so i am not doing anything until I test later today or tomorrow. The TA was 95 on 06/05 and 88 on 06/11 and 87 today- so that is Ok-
That is it for me- I am doing my best - and as I mentioned giving time and tender loving care = will be ok- and I am sure by the end of this season the CYA will be quite close to normal seeing how it had dropped in the past 2 weeks 18 points.

 

[FlappyLipps]

Pool Store Water Testing <facepalm>

 

[Uhhello]

Pool Store Water Testing <facepalm>

How is CYA dropping that much with no exchange?