opened but zero pressure

[sdtfp]

I just opened my pool. I started last week by changing the DE filter grids as one had a hole. I got Pleatco PFS3060 60 Sq. Ft. Complete DE Filter Grid Set. I had taken apart to wash and put together the old grids once last year. This time it was much smoother process. The only thing that I didn't feel completely comfortable with is the 2 or 1.5" connection from the filter to the manifold. I think this is just for backwash. It didn't slide all the way down. I think there was about 1/4" it might of gone down more. I would push it and it would just come back up. So I don't know if that is an issue.

Fast forward to today and I did the rest of the opening as follows:
1. lubed all the o rings and thread. The pump top one. The filter one. The waste basket one. The pump valve at the bottom. Pretty much if it has a thread or an oring I cleaned it (sometimes with a wipe or just a paper towel) and lubed it. I tried not to wipe the orings.
2. Open up all the returns (3) and the 1 skimmer line. Opening the 2 level vsalve on the skimmer line (anthony style pool) was a bit difficult. I had the pump top closed at first so I opened that to relief pressure but still seemed a bit tough. But I am more inclined to say it was just the freezing water and sharp metal ring on it that made it uncomfortable. Chlorinator was not hooked up yet. Water had dirt and leaves in it so it looked a bit dirty but it was normal or better than normal actually. Water was freezing to touch.
3. I used my vacuum to clean the pool floor. I set the valve to waste. Removed pump basket. I had left the filter bottom open just to make sure no water was going to the filter. Everything looked good. I removed leaf's, worms and dirt.
4. Removed vacuum. Put back pump basket. Set valve to filter. And started the pump.
Here is when the problem started as the filter pressure remained at 0. I also seemed to get micro bubbles after like 5-10 minutes of running. The pressure on the returns didn't seem as normal as last year, but the water is freezing and i'm not sure I was able to feel as much as when the water is warm. The pump looked good. The skimmer looked good. Opening the valve by the pressure gauge removed air but it seemed to take longer then normal and when I finally got water I don't think it was as strong as usual. Usually it gushes out and gets everything wet. This time it was a good stream but a bit on the controlled side. I got worried something got stuck on the lines, so I ended up blowing out the skimmer line first and then the returns from the lines at the pump.. I have a cyclone and the air pressure was as crazy as normal and nothing came out of the lines. I changed hte pressure gauge once and the new one seemed to go up slightly for a second but it went back to 0 and so I changed it back to the old one. Finally, I let the pump run for a bit and it seemed okay and I couldn't think of any issue.
5. Put in robot to clean the bottom.
6. Added 8 scoops of DE as I have weighed my scoop in the past at .8 lbs. Didn't notice any DE coming out of the returns. But later on I feel like the water was a little cloudy. Still the pressure is zero.
7. Put in the chlorinator with about 6 tabs as I am expecting my water to have 0 cya.

So now I am letting the pump run for a bit and I still see some micro bubbles. I am constantly opening up the pressure valve on top of filter to let out air. It seems to have more air then usual, but I am trying so many things that I am not sure it just not me letting air back in. Its almost night now so I am about to start the shock process with liquid chlorine but I am very concerned about the zero pressure on the gauge. Everything else looks okayish to me and I probably wouldn't have worried about anything else.. Any ideas?

 

[ajw22]

What model pump do you have at what speed?

If you have flow through the filter to the returns with the PSI at 0 then either the gauge is broken or the pressure port on the bottom of the gauge is clogged.

Post a pic of the air relief valve and PSI gauge.

You cannot let air in when you open the air relief valve on the pressure side. Either air or water will flow out and no air can flow in.

 

[MITBeta]

I used my vacuum to clean the pool floor. I set the valve to waste. Removed pump basket.

Why did you remove the basket? Maybe you pulled something into the pump body that the basket should have caught.

 

[sdtfp]

What model pump do you have at what speed?

If you have flow through the filter to the returns with the PSI at 0 then either the gauge is broken or the pressure port on the bottom of the gauge is clogged.

Post a pic of the air relief valve and PSI gauge.

You cannot let air in when you open the air relief valve on the pressure side. Either air or water will flow out and no air can flow in.

Attached a picture but it's a bit dark. Let me look for a flashlight.

My pump should be on my signature but not seeing it myself. Let me find my signature. It's fixed pump. Hayward I believe.

But int he meanwhile, something u said rang a bell. I put away the gauge for the winter and must of left the port below it open as I found leaf debris all inside of the filter. Could that be clogged up? I assume I can stop the pump and that that apart to clean it up?

 

[sdtfp]

Why did you remove the basket? Maybe you pulled something into the pump body that the basket should have caught.

I thought the pump basket was to stop big things from going into the filter. Since I was sending everything to waste I thought it would just pass through the pump without any harm. Could this be my problem? What exactly is the pump body and how do I check it? I looked through both hole and didnt see anything.

 

[sdtfp]

What model pump do you have at what speed?

If you have flow through the filter to the returns with the PSI at 0 then either the gauge is broken or the pressure port on the bottom of the gauge is clogged.

Post a pic of the air relief valve and PSI gauge.

You cannot let air in when you open the air relief valve on the pressure side. Either air or water will flow out and no air can flow in.

Got some pics.

 

[ajw22]

Either the gauge is broken or the orifice is clogged.

 

[sdtfp]

Either the gauge is broken or the orifice is clogged.

Disregard below.. see next post.
This was it. I took out the port and gauge and inspected them and it looked good. I blew in them and shook them and didn't notice anything. But when I put it back on the filter it started working and I got 7 psi. It was also a lot quicker at getting the air out of the system when I open the port. And no micro bubbles on the return. I didn't know about being able to remove the port, so ill add that as a maintenance item.

Can anyone comment if it was okay to remove the pump basket when pumping to waste?

 

[mknauss]

Can anyone comment if it was okay to remove the pump basket when pumping to waste?

Never remove the pump basket and run the pump. Debris can get pulled in and clog the impeller.

 

[sdtfp]

Disregard below.. see next post.
This was it. I took out the port and gauge and inspected them and it looked good. I blew in them and shook them and didn't notice anything. But when I put it back on the filter it started working and I got 7 psi. It was also a lot quicker at getting the air out of the system when I open the port. And no micro bubbles on the return. I didn't know about being able to remove the port, so ill add that as a maintenance item.

Can anyone comment if it was okay to remove the pump basket when pumping to waste?

The problem is back after about 30 minutes of thinking it was fixed I noticed a lot of air coming out of the returns. Checked the gauge and sure enough it is back to zero. And this time opening the port there is a lot more air and i seem to be unable to get rid of all of it like when the system is good. I am going to order another port and gauge and hope that is it. But I am worried air is somehow getting into the system somewhere else and messing things up, so I am planning to take off the filter top and inspect the filter. Not sure what I am looking for. And not sure it could be that as it was fixed completely momentarily when i removed and put back the port and gauge.

 

[sdtfp]

Never remove the pump basket and run the pump. Debris can get pulled in and clog the impeller.

Is there an easy way to inspect and clear the impeller? Or is that something I can ignore for now if the pump is acting okay.

 

[mknauss]

To clear the impeller you separate the motor from the wet end of the pump.

If the pump is running normally with expected flow, there should be no issue.

 

[sdtfp]

I took out the port (release valve?) and pressure gauge again and this time I put some lube on it and it's working again. I didn't think to put lube on it last time because I think about lube for places where water comes out, so I am not sure if it helps to stop air from coming in. Although it worked without lube last time and I was getting too much air I think for this to have been the problem. I am guessing just reseating the port stabilizes the system for a bit. We will see in an hour or so if my theory holds up.

This time I noticed a new symptom as the robot had a lot of DE in the basket. This explains the cloudy water after startup yesterday and it must have had enough time overnight to settle down. So now I am thinking the DE grids aren't sitting correctly and some DE is getting into the system. I am not release sure how that works. I will take it all apart soon and investigate. But I wanted to let the pump run for a bit and see if lube solved the no pressure issue. Maybe its all once issue but maybe its two separate ones.

Anyone know how to remove all the DE from the pool? Will my robot vacuum pick it all up? Or Maybe its better to manually vacuum so I dont have to discard the DE. I am not sure how much i've lost already. Maybe 1 scoop and it looks more packed when its wet. OR this mean I have to redo the whole DE process? I probably should have waiting until my zero pressure issue was fixed before adding DE. I might just have to toss out all the DE and start from scratch.

 

[sdtfp]

On Tuesday I took the filter apart and reassembled the grids a few times. I tried the upside method I saw on youtube, but the bolts that hold the grids together are too long for that method to work. So after much trial and error I pretty much went back to how I did it to begin with. I did note that it feels like these new filter grids from pleatco are slightly too big. This is because they either slightly bigger then my old ones, or the fabric is too new and springy, or the grid guide should not be used. The result of it being slightly too big is that the manifolds sits too high on the pipe going to the filter and doesn't completely come down on it (See attached picture). Initially, I would estimate I had like a 1/4" gap and now its like 1/8" gap. I didn't use a ruler so i might be off. To me this is the only possible explanation for the zero pressure as once I got that gap down, the pressure gauge started reading 7 psi. Unfortunately, I couldn't remove the grid guide as its needed for putting the grid together. Feel like if I am somehow able to remove that, I can get that final gap reduced and feel much better about the system.

Anyhow, once the gauge was at 7 psi I let it run for about 8 hours and it was solid. Everything about the system looked normal at that point. I did have a lot of DE in the pool (a note on that below) so I vacuumed up as much of it as I could. I did two times, each time making sure there had been time for the DE to settle on the bottom. On Wednesday I took out the DE filter and hosed it down to remove all the DE that I had managed to vacuum from the pool. I did not take the grids apart for fear of not being able to put it back together as snug. BTW I read you are not supposed to run a DE filter without DE, but I didn't know at the time plus I wasn't about to add DE until the pressure issue was resolved. So after I got the filter squeaky clean, I plopped it back in and the pressure gauge now reads 12 PSI. I am dumbfounded on how cleaning the filter increased the pressure. IT must be due to how the filter is sitting and the gap I previously mentioned. It might be slightly bigger. I tried shifting things around but could not get below 12 psi.

Since the gauge was steady at 12 psi and the chlorine in the pool was dropping, I decided to assume this is as good as it gets and put in 8 scoops of DE. Then later that night I began slamming. I did look over my pool logs that night and saw that 12 psi was at one point logged as normal clean pressure. I'm not sure I remember that, but logs dont lie. So maybe 7 psi I achieved for 8 hours was just a fluke or actually a bad thing and now its back to normal? I sure hope so. I am going to continue my slam and keep an eye on it.

Regarding, the DE in the pool: Remember I had noticed it half way through all the trouble. I was not certain it was related to my zero pressure issue, but I am now convinced this was due to me releasing the air through the pressure gauge and the water+DE rushing back into the pump and back through the skimmer. It was something I had done while trying to troubleshoot the pressure issue and at the time I had not noticed the DE flowing back. I did it again yesterday and caught the mistake this time. I should of figured it out earlier as there was a lot of DE near the skimmer on a raised platform/steps that are far away from the returns.