Old heater plumbing advice needed

[DailyDovetails]

This is my first post but I have been lurking for a few months now. My TF-Pro kit comes next week and I will be doing my first proper SLAM. I had done the Clorox recommended treatment to this point but after learning more I think they are a bit misleading.

We recently bought our first house with a pool. I have been having a hard time keeping the free chlorine up and I’m wondering if it’s related to the old heater plumbing for the pool being full of algae. It’s about 500’ of 1.5” abs that runs with its own pump on a timer.

I bought a pump with the intention of fixing it but found that I can’t get the pump to pull a vacuum(the pipe to it is run under the deck and has about a 6” hump in the middle over 15’). Even if I got it to pump water the current system is leaks like crazy and would need to be replaced.

All that being said I think for the time being I need to abandon the heater until we decide what we are going to do with the covered deck.


This is the return for the old heater. It runs about where the red line is under the deck.

This is the intake for the heater.

The question I have is for the time being can I cut the 90s off these pipes and install clean outs that I occasionally flush out? Also does anyone successfully run a pool heating system that runs on its own pump like this or do I eventually need to do some plumbing to install a valve as I have seen is the norm?

 

[PoolStored]

I had done the Clorox recommended treatment to this point but after learning more I think they are a bit misleading.

Ya think?

I’m wondering if it’s related to the old heater plumbing for the pool being full of algae.

Algae cannot exist without sun.

The question I have is for the time being can I cut the 90s off these pipes and install clean outs that I occasionally flush out? Also does anyone successfully run a pool heating system that runs on its own pump like this or do I eventually need to do some plumbing to install a valve as I have seen is the norm?

Your pictures are not clear with respect to the plumbing. I cannot tell from your pictures the normal circulation (pump, filter, return), nor your pool heating circuit. You will have to post more pictures and clarify.

 

[wireform]

Hi and welcome.
You've made at least one good decision with the test kit and hopefully many more good decisions after it too. We need more info and pictures of the equipment pad where the pool pump and filter are. No, it's not the norm to run a heater on its own pump so get us some pictures of the heater and where it is in comparison to the rest of the equipment.
Oh forgot these for you.
Pool Care Basics
FC/CYA Levels
PoolMath
SLAM Process
Test Kits Compared
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

 

[DailyDovetails]

Algae cannot exist without sun.

That’s what I have heard also but what was funny was when I ran water down the pipe it was nasty green and cloudy. The same thing happened when I pulled out the light to clean behind it.

Your pictures are not clear with respect to the plumbing. I cannot tell from your pictures the normal circulation (pump, filter, return), nor your pool heating circuit. You will have to post more pictures and clarify.

I can work on getting some other pictures when it’s bright tomorrow but those to are it for that system. It goes for the from the inlet to a pump about 25’ away then into the heater on the roof and out the outlet. It’s not tied into the other plumbing at all.

 

[DailyDovetails]

Hi and welcome.
You've made at least one good decision with the test kit and hopefully many more good decisions after it too. We need more info and pictures of the equipment pad where the pool pump and filter are. No, it's not the norm to run a heater on its own pump so get us some pictures of the heater and where it is in comparison to the rest of the equipment.
Oh forgot these for you.
Pool Care Basics
FC/CYA Levels
PoolMath
SLAM Process
Test Kits Compared
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

I have been learning about and working on these. I’m hoping the new test kit makes it easier. My CYA level was super high initially about 100. I dumped a fair amount of water and am to around 50 now. My alkalinity was high 150 and I have been working on adding acid and aerating to bring it down. The PH has actually seemed easy enough to manage tho.

 

[ajw22]

It sounds like you have solar heat panels on your roof with a dedicated pump and circulation system not connected to your pool filter pump system. That is sometimes done with solar heating systems.

I think folks were confused in your descriptions thinking you were discussing a gas heater or heat pump.

I cannot see where the intake (suction) for the solar pump is in this picture…



@Dirk @mas985 may be of help in how to flush out an old solar heat system.

 

[mas985]

If the FC to CYA ratio is correct, then nothing should be growing in any part of the pool and/or panels. But I would agree with PS that algae will generally not grow in areas without any light. Live algae can collect in areas of darkness but the solar panels are after the filter so algae should collect in the filter and not make it to the panels especially with a cartridge filter.

Are the panels plumbed after the filter?

What is the filter pressure with 100% of the water going through the solar panels and then what is it with 100% of the water bypassed?

Can you post a picture of the equipment pad and all associated plumbing that is visible?

Can you also post a picture of the solar panels?

 

[DailyDovetails]

I think these pictures might help. The solar is totally separate from the filter. It has an intake on one step then an outlet on the other. The system leaks pretty bad and I’m not sure how I would repair it with the way it’s installed. The covered deck likely needs replaced in the near future. Also the way the piping is done I think it has a massive case of airlock. I am wondering if it ever actually worked correctly.






For now I’m wondering how to abandon these pipes. Ideally I would just cut and cap them(I could flush them occasionally if needed). I could move the pump here and have it circulate a few minutes a day also if it requires more frequent turning. Ideally at some point I would get the solar running again as I think it would work well here and I’m imagining being able to swim from about April to Oct with it but I think I need to figure out the deck and plumbing first.

 

[mas985]

If you SLAM the pool and run solar at the same time, it should clear out anything that may be growing in there.

 

[DailyDovetails]

Here is another of the solar. You can see the dark spots where it’s leaking. It’s like it’s raining on the deck when water is going through it.

 

[ajw22]

Note that your solar suction port is not VGBA compliant and presents an entrapment hazard.

Safety Drains VGBA - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Lake Placid]

Note that your solar suction port is not VGBA compliant and presents an entrapment hazard.

Safety Drains VGBA - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

What size plumbing is the suction port? Is the port threaded or smooth wall? There may be options depending on the current configuration to bring it into compliance.

 

[DailyDovetails]

What size plumbing is the suction port? Is the port threaded or smooth wall? There may be options depending on the current configuration to bring it into compliance.

It’s 1.5” PVC, no thread.

 

[mas985]

The inlet is right at the stairs which makes it even more dangerous.

Using such large pipe for solar tubing is not going to be as efficient as the smaller tubing. Given it leaks, you might consider replacing it with standard solar panels and plumbing those into the circulation plumbing so the panels get filtered water. You can use the current solar pipes into the pool as additional returns if you want to and abandon the current solar pump.

 

[DailyDovetails]

The inlet is right at the stairs which makes it even more dangerous.

Using such large pipe for solar tubing is not going to be as efficient as the smaller tubing. Given it leaks, you might consider replacing it with standard solar panels and plumbing those into the circulation plumbing so the panels get filtered water. You can use the current solar pipes into the pool as additional returns if you want to and abandon the current solar pump.

I think that might be the direction I go. This water feature has a separate discharge ran to it and it works manually from a valve at the pump now. I plan on changing the water feature already as it doesn’t look that nice and leaks.

I need to replace this retaining wall so I could tie into pipe at the water feature and run the pipe at the same time to get it to the roof and then use the 2 ports as returns for the future solar heater.

All this would be a few years out. In the meantime does anyone see any issues with installing cleanouts or caps on these 2 pipes?

 

[mas985]

I think that might be the direction I go. This water feature has a separate discharge ran to it and it works manually from a valve at the pump now. I plan on changing the water feature already as it doesn’t look that nice and leaks.

I need to replace this retaining wall so I could tie into pipe at the water feature and run the pipe at the same time to get it to the roof and then use the 2 ports as returns for the future solar heater.

All this would be a few years out. In the meantime does anyone see any issues with installing cleanouts or caps on these 2 pipes?

It sounds like you want to keep the solar separate from your regular circulation system. This is not the way solar is normally plumbed into a pool system. However, this is what is normally done or something similar:



As I said before, I would convert the two existing solar pipes into standard pool returns for better circulation and distribution of chlorine.

Solar Pool Heaters - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Dirk]

@mas985, before I go off about a proper solar panel heating system vs "a bunch of black pipe," do you think 500' of black PVC is doing anything to heat that pool? Is it worth repairing and/or saving (especially if it needs to be removed to repair/replace that patio roof)?

I think it is telling that the previous owner didn't bother fixing the leak.

 

[mas985]

@mas985, before I go off about a proper solar panel heating system vs "a bunch of black pipe," do you think 500' of black PVC is doing anything to heat that pool?

It will add some heat but not as efficiently as traditional commercial panels. The larger pipe allows the warmer water to stay at the top of the pipe increasing heat loss.

As for the efficiency of the area covered, I suspect there are a lot of gaps between the pipes which not only increases heat loss but reduces the potential capture area as well.

Is it worth repairing and/or saving (especially if it needs to be removed to repair/replace that patio roof)?

No. As I mentioned in post #14, I would replace the panels with traditional panels, plumb them into the normal circulation system, remove the solar pump, and use the existing solar plumbing into the pool as standard returns.

 

[Dirk]

It will add some heat but not as efficiently as traditional commercial panels. The larger pipe allows the warmer water to stay at the top of the pipe increasing heat loss.

As for the efficiency of the area covered, I suspect there are a lot of gaps between the pipes which not only increases heat loss but reduces the potential capture area as well.


No. As I mentioned in post #14, I would replace the panels with traditional panels, plumb them into the normal circulation system, remove the solar pump, and use the existing solar plumbing into the pool as standard returns.

+1

 

[DailyDovetails]

I appreciate all the responses. I think all of that makes sense. I am going to work on converting the returns to standard returns and getting a line ran so I can have the solar heater in the future. I like the idea of the automation and a long swim season.

This makes this a fairly large project for our backyard as it will require trenching, removal of some of the deck and possibly some concrete replacement.

I think until I am able to do that I am going to cut and install clean outs on the lines. I have a return I am able to hook a hose to so I will use that to flush them as I do the SLAM and I will hope for the best.