Newbie about to start installing SWCG

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Well thanks for the reply but I've already (partially) drained the pool and decided I'm going to live with the staining, which on the whole isn't as bad as some of the pictures make it look.

I measured my salt today and am going to Lowe's to buy salt tonight. The plan is to do the SWCG install on Saturday, assuming all of the sch 40 PVC fittings I ordered arrives before then. Besides salt, I have two other things I expect to add to the water. The pH was high, so I expect to add some muriatic acid. But I was waiting to see how much the CYA I added last weekend would lower it first. Also, I should get a shipment of boric acid any day now. Should I add the salt, the boric acid, and the muriatic acid on the same day, wait a day or two, and then install SWCG? Or is there a better order to do things? For example, I was thinking of keeping the boric acid in the garage until I got the SWCG set up and working. Does it even matter?

I was having second thoughts on high borates (50 ppm) after I already ordered them, due to threads I came across complaining about the bitter taste. Then I realized that my not be such a bad thing as it would discourage my kids from getting the water in their mouths in the first place.
 
Thanks. I started pouring the salt in this morning. After already shelling out the cash for a SWCG and dumping 300 lbs of salt in my pool, I started taking a closer look at my pool ladder. :brickwall:

As you can see, there is some rust. Perhaps this contributed to my staining/scaling issue. (The vitamin C test didn't seem to make a indicate anything but perhaps I didn't do it right). My bigger concern now that I have a SWCG is having this ladder rust away in no time flat. What is involved in trying to replace a ladder like mine? Notice at the top of the photo that the bars disappear flush into the patio tiles. Is replacing this a do it yourself job? The bottom of the ladder is not mounted to the side of the pool. It just rests against the wall. You can see where it has discolored the plaster just below the bottom. This is a much stronger stain than in the rest of the pool.
 

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Betting it's not a tough deal. You can probably find tiles that match what you have there at least close enough that if you need to replace them, you can. The new ladder can be mounted however necessary at that point.

The ladder won't contribute to scaling.
 
Thanks. I just read up on it some more. It appears to me that the tiles are covering my ladder anchors. Is that correct? So you're saying I would need to destroy the existing tile to get at the anchors, replace ladder, and then replace tile?

An alternative I came across is to use surface mount anchors, along with a plastic composite ladder. https://www.innovativepoolproducts.com/ ... -base.html Then I could just cut away the old ladder, grind it down to the tile, and place the new surface mount anchors over it. Does that make sense?

Is this something I should so soon, or wait until the ladder is closer to being structurally unsound? Right now it's just cosmetic.
 
The ladder anchors are in the deck, both underneath and through the tiles.

You won't need to replace the anchors. The ladder can be removed from the anchors, though it may take some effort. There is usually a nut or wedge underneath the trim ring that you loosen and then the ladder lifts straight up and out. They tend to be quite tight even after loosening, but they do come out. That looks like a standard size, it should be easy to find a replacement if you do need to replace it.
 
diasurfer said:
An alternative I came across is to use surface mount anchors, along with a plastic composite ladder. https://www.innovativepoolproducts.com/ ... -base.html Then I could just cut away the old ladder, grind it down to the tile, and place the new surface mount anchors over it. Does that make sense?
Click to expand...

I have no experience with it, but this is exactly what my initial thought was. The only concern would be how well the flush mounted anchors are secured. If there is a block on concrete under the tile that you could anchor to that should work. But clearly only attaching the latter to the tile is not a good idea.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I snapped a couple of pictures of where my ladder enters the patio tiles. In the first pick, you can see a lump next to the pole covered in grout. In the second pick, there is also a lump at right side of the pole but it is much smaller and barely perceptible. So you can see why I was confused with all mentions of nuts, wedges, escutcheons, caps, etc associated with the anchors. When these tiles were laid down (probably years after original pool build), they covered the attachment hardware up.

So I would have to break through the grout (if not tile as well) and then hope I can free the bolts holding the ladder in the anchors. Uggh. I'm liking the idea of surface mount anchors more and more. But jblizzle's comment is relevant here ... even worse than going through the tile is that it is likely that some of the holes will go through an area that is only grout right now - even less holding power. But I'm pretty sure there is concrete under there based on the drilling that went on when my pool fence was installed. (I can pull out a pole and the cup in the hole and check).

Unfortunately, the link above doesn't provide the length of the anchor bolts for the surface mounts. But the good thing is that I just noticed that company is about two miles away from where I sit right now so I'll see what they think.
 

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I think your anchor is just hiding under the grout. If you can carefully chip away all the ground around each one of the pipes you may find them and be surprised how easy it is after that. If that's the case I would replace the grout with some colored outdoor caulk where it abuts the ladder. NOTE: I don't do this for a living and I'm just suggesting what I THINK might work.

Here's a YouTube video on a handrail system that is the best description of the way the ladders attach that I have seen:

[youtube:24bsrxxw]HbeReUNm-QU[/youtube:24bsrxxw]
 
Thanks but as it turns out, I probably don't have anchors. I called Innovative Pool (above link) and talked to them about it. Owner told me that in this area, almost no pool ladders were ever installed with anchors. Ladders are/were simply grouted directly into the concrete deck. His take was that anchors are more common in areas where people close and cover their pools seasonally.

After I hung up the phone, he called me back and said hey I only live a few blocks from you, why don't I come over and have a look at your setup. He didn't say what the "lumps" of grout in my pics are, but did say that he was certain I didn't have anchors. He told me I could possibly use a car jack to remove the old one, but either way replacing with another in-ground ladder would involve core drilling with 3" bit. This is not something I want to do myself.

The one pool builder I called yesterday told me "no one gets a ladder anymore" and refused the work! So I'm still searching for a cost of labor estimate. The other option is to get rid of the existing ladder and use the surface mounts with the polymer ladder. The owner/seller last night told me he sells a lot of them to pool owners (as opposed to builders) because they are so easy to install. Personally he didn't like them because of aesthetics but said they are plenty safe. My wife and I are not so picky about how it looks as long as it's functional and not ridiculously ugly. Our pool is surrounded by a safety fence after all. I'm going to get an estimate of the labor cost to drill and replace a standard ladder and compare to the surface mount option before I decide. I've got time to decide because my current ladder is rusting but sound, but I don't expect it to last too long with the salt.

On another note, adding salt only brought my salinity up to 2640 (by test strip) when I was aiming for 3100 (ultimate goal is 3400). I'm pretty sure of my pool gallon-age after the partial refill. The pump has run for 24 hours after adding salt, but I'm going on the hypothesis that it hasn't fully mixed throughout the pool and will continue to add slowly. If that's not the issue, then I'll need to buy another bag of salt.
 

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True, but if the existing ladder is embedded in concrete ... there is likely a footer below the tile that the flush mounts could be drilled into (with long enough screws). Hard to guess without pulling up the tiles or drilling a few holes to see if you hit concrete.
 
There is definitely plenty of concrete under the tiles. Confirmed it last night by looking at the edge of the patio. Pool parts guy said last night the anchor bolts are about 4" long and I would have no problem safely securing the ladder with the surface mounts.

A local pool service company that was recommended to me is going to come out next week and give me an estimate to replace via traditional drilling and cementing.
 
LOL - OK my idea of a "Flush Mount" and the definition are different. I assume that flush mount meant that it did not pentrate the surface I recall now that you mentioned bolts earlier - my mistake. Yes, I agree that the concrete under the tile should do the job.
 
It's in! Hayward AquaRite SWCG system is up and running. Getting the electrical hooked up, and getting the plumbing done (and replacing some leaking non-schedule 40 PVC) was a PITA! If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably forgo the money savings and pay someone to do it if I was confident they were competent (there's the rub huh?). I tend to do things slowly and yet still make bonehead mistakes and too many trips to Home Depot to count, but eventually get it right. When you have an 8 months pregnant wife who isn't pleased about watching two toddlers without your help because you're monkeying around with PVC cement in the backyard ... let's just say it adds to the stress factor. Anyway, it may not be the prettiest install but it doesn't leak or short out the circuits.

At the same time, I've been trying to get my water balance just right before I start relying on SWCG. I'm creeping up on my salinity goal of 3500 ppm and CYA goal of 80 ppm. One thing I noticed is that to lower pH, the pool calculator gives recommendations for adding muriatic acid that are only about half of the amount the Taylor drop test recommends. I found the pool calculator was underestimating the amount I needed to add based on how low pH actually dropped compared to how much the calculator predicted it would.

Anyway, unfortunately I was aiming for 7.5 (and just added more acid early this morning to get there) because I read that SWCG would raise pH and so I thought it best to aim for the bottom of the 7.5-7.8 range. Then I just read a Deep End thread later this morning saying that 7.7-7.8 is ideal. pool-water-chemistry-t628-60.html Furthermore, I have held off on adding my boric acid until I got the pH right, thinking that it is pH neutral (I thought I read that somewhere). Now I just read that boric acid will actually lower pH. So I'm afraid now that I'll get to 7.5 and then add the boric acid and get to 7.4 or less, and now I'm out of range and far from the 7.7-7.8 ideal. So my question now is, should I add some borax to get to 7.7 or so, and accept that my TA might change from my near perfect value of 70, and then add my boric acid; or should I should leave it alone, just add my boric acid, start the SWCG up, and let the system adjust the pH over time? I know I may be overthinking this but I've fiddled with it so much already that I don't mind adjusting a bit more ... but if it's better just to leave it alone I'm certainly willing.
 
Are you sure you have the pool size set correctly in the calculator? Are you using the boxes at the top or the effects calculator at the bottom? The bottom ids not as accurate for pH as the TA it's not taken into account.

Your pH will rise due to the SWG. You want to get your TA set and then try to maintain a pH ... Likely starting much lower than 7.7. You need to learn what the sweet spot is for your pool, not what someone else posted.

Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short ;)
 
I installed my SWCG a few weeks ago and have been working to figure out the proper level to keep it at. It seems that only around 5% output keeps the FC at around 4. However I was still getting CC readings of 0.5 to up to 1.5 at one point when I think I let FC get too low. I decided to shock the pool with bleach to see if I could get rid of any remaining algae before going back to running the SWCG. My question is, after adding the bleach for shocking, at what point should I turn the SWCG back on? Should I let FC get back to my target value of 3-5 before generating again, or just turn it back on now? I was at FC 15 yesterday evening.
 
Did you pass the 3 tests to stop the shock process to ensure that everything is dead?
If so, I do not think it matters when you turn the SWG back on. I would probably let the FC drift down to 6-7ppm and then turn the SWG back on, but you likely could before then and it will just drift back down much more slowly.

How long are you running the pump such that the 5% is all that is required. Seems like you likely could shorten the pump run time and increase the % output to save some money on electricity.
 
Woops. I should have reread the Shock process web page again before starting. My water is clear (it was clear before I started) and my CC is 0.5 or less, but I need to do the overnight test to be sure I got it all.

I'll do the overnight test tonight, and assuming I'm OK, I'll let FC fall to level you suggest. Otherwise I guess I should repeat the shock.

I run the pump about 9 hours a day right now. I might try to experiment with running it less. Good suggestion.
 
diasurfer said:
Woops. I should have reread the Shock process web page again before starting. My water is clear (it was clear before I started) and my CC is 0.5 or less, but I need to do the overnight test to be sure I got it all.

I'll do the overnight test tonight, and assuming I'm OK, I'll let FC fall to level you suggest. Otherwise I guess I should repeat the shock.

I run the pump about 9 hours a day right now. I might try to experiment with running it less. Good suggestion.
Click to expand...

Language is tough to interpret so please don't mistake this for critical commentary - I may be misunderstanding you or you may be misunderstanding the shock process slightly. If you have not yet passed the OCLT then there is no "repeat" the shock. The shock process is ongoing and continuous. You raise the levels up to shock and then you check them - as often as needed and you keep raising it up trying to keep it from falling below shock level until the three criteria are all passed. It's not a 1/day, or 1 per half-day... or 1/hour thing - it depends on how fast the FC is used up. With the water clear and sparkling you can still have nasties but it's not quite as likely to be something you have to stay on top of every hour - but only testing will tell you what end is up.
 

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