Newbie about to start installing SWCG

Re: Newbie about to start

diasurfer said:
So cost is unlikely to be a reason to install a SWG. Convenience, yes. And now I'll add water quality to the pros.
The water quality difference and how it treats your skin, etc... of a SWCG vs. BBB method will be exactly the same. SWCG vs. public pool/solid stabilized chlorine treated home pools, such as the common puck method. Yeah, night & day! But then again so is the BBB method vs those.

The only real difference is going to be in the amount of salt that's in the pool. You'll always have some salt simply from the chemicals you add, bleach, MA and I'm pretty sure even baking soda. They all either contain salt, or the base elements break down into salt once in the pool.
So the salt builds up over time, over the course of several years it's not uncommon to have 1000ppm or so of salt in the pool.

Of course you can also add it like jblizze & SeanB said, borates are a good thing too. As you'll see in the thread I link to below.

diasurfer said:
My 2 year old has moderate eczema so that might be reason enough. My 3 year old loves to swim and typically comes out of the pool with bloodshot eyes. If SWG makes for a nicer pool for my kids and less hassle for me, then the up front cost may be worth it regardless of any extra savings (or long term costs).
The above should never, ever happen in a TFP BBB pool, whether SWCG or bleach as your CL source. We teach you how to prevent that and do it right. Using chemistry and science instead of a whole bunch of guess work, potions and hocus pocus.

Check out this thread for some eczema info from fellow TFPers.
turned-off-my-swg-went-bbb-wife-said-omg-t50883.html


diasurfer said:
There is a canal in my backyard that sits about 20' from my pool.
.....
At least I know I can pump water into the canal to drain the pool without flooding out the neighbors!
I wouldn't do that. Animals drink that water, in some places people do as well. The forum has decided that in general using our pools as emergency drinking water isn't a good idea. Mostly due to the presence of CYA which doesn't break down in any decent time frame. IE. takes years and years.
Just run a hose up to your nearest storm drain, or the lower 40 of your property. :)
Soil bacteria will break down the CYA over time, so it's no big deal.
 
Re: Newbie about to start

Most places storm drains would go right into the creek canal systems.

BTW I got the opposite impression about emergency water, can you pm me or start a thread about that?

Bacteria is everywhere in the canal and soil but I think the worry is about fish bit trap water runoff would be worse wouldn't it?

Sent via Tapatalk...
 
Re: Newbie about to start

OK so I redid the CYA test.

jblizzle said:
If you still have the CYA mixture, you can try dumping out half and replacing with tap water and then doubling the result to get a better idea. Or redo the test, but start with 50/50 pool and tap water before adding the reagent and then double the result.

As it happened, I forgot to empty my CYA mixture from when I did the test two days ago. I reread the quote above and then got to thinking about it. If you take an already-mixed CYA mixture (50/50 pool water and reagent) and then dump half and replace with tap, the new mixture is going to be 1/4 pool water, 1/2 tap water, and 1/4 reagent. If redo the test with second method, you have 1/4 pool water, 1/4 tap water, and 1/2 reagent. This latter method preserves water to reagent ratio so that's what I did. (I also looked it up under the "detailed test instructions" link posted above and this is consistent with what is posted there).

Now that I think about it, I could have dumped half of the old CYA mixture, and added tap water and reagent in equal amounts and redone the test. This would have preserved the water to reagent ratio (I'm assuming that is important) and saved me some reagent. But there isn't a graduation on the test bottle between 7 and 14 so to do it accurately I'd have to eyeball it or draw one on the bottle using a ruler. Anyway, I didn't think of this in time and besides I don't know about the accuracy of using CYA mixture that is two days old, so I dumped it and cleaned the test bottle well. I decided to save today's test mixture to test again over the weekend and see if I get the same result.

Anyway, I repeated the test multiple times and got 65 to 70 each time so average x2 gives me a CYA of 135. (This is actually consistent with my guestimation from my first test result above). According to the pool calculator, this means I need to replace 41-48% of the pool water to get to CYA 70-80 for SWG, and 63-78% to get to CYA 30-50 for BBB. I reran these numbers for +/- 500 gallons on volume of my pool, and +/- 5 on CYA and they never changed.

As far as draining, no one drinks from these canals, or eats the fish (which are primarily exotic, but fun for the kids to catch). There are no runoff drains on my street or others in the area. (I believe that's what the canals were built for when this area was converted from swamp to agriculture land decades ago). There is a pipe that runs from my pool pump, under my backyard, and ends on the canal bank a few inches above the water line, so the system was clearly designed to drain into the canal. I assume this was done with permits and is not uncommon. The South Florida water management agency (runs the canals) would have made a fuss long ago if it was an issue. Of course, we get a letter about once a year saying don't water you lawn with the canal water because they're putting something in it to kill the algae. Probably because there's so much CYA in it from pools! As nasty as that water must be to drink, it's surprising how pretty it is to look at.

As for other comments, OK I now accept that the only clear reason to switch to SWG is convenience. The water quality issues mentioned above can satisfied with proper BBB technique, and use of salts and borates, and I don't expect to save any money on SWG vs BBB. But I'm still strongly considering it for convenience sake. I was paying the pool guy $90x12 a year and that should more than cover the cost of a good SWG system.
 
Re: Newbie about to start

diasurfer said:
Which should I do first, install an SWG system (assuming I go that route) or drain and refill the pool?

Lowering your CYA to at least 70ppm would be first and the SWG can be installed at anytime you choose.
 
Re: Newbie about to start

This is an interesting (to say the least) thread RE: draining a pool in Miami.

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/pools ... -pool.html

All nasty business. I never mentioned that my pool has a crack in the side of it. No leak though. Pool guy said just keep an eye on it - old pools like mine were made really thick.

But I don't think I want to risk even a half-empty pool. I guess I need to start shopping for a giant tarp. For this to work, I have to drain from the bottom and fill on top of the tarp, right? Any other advice on how to do this other than the link posted earlier?

edit: I took another look at the "foreclosure swamp" link posted above about the mythical tarp method. The first time I saw it, I was unable to view the photo for some reason. A picture is worth a thousand words!
 
Re: Newbie about to start

diasurfer said:
This is an interesting (to say the least) thread RE: draining a pool in Miami.

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/pools ... -pool.html

All nasty business. I never mentioned that my pool has a crack in the side of it. No leak though. Pool guy said just keep an eye on it - old pools like mine were made really thick.

But I don't think I want to risk even a half-empty pool. I guess I need to start shopping for a giant tarp. For this to work, I have to drain from the bottom and fill on top of the tarp, right? Any other advice on how to do this other than the link posted earlier?

edit: I took another look at the "foreclosure swamp" link posted above about the mythical tarp method. The first time I saw it, I was unable to view the photo for some reason. A picture is worth a thousand words!

If you don't have a main drain then a sump pump is one option. Alternately you could try hooking your vac hose up to the skimmer and weighting down the end in the deep end witth the vac head or something like it.
 
Re: Newbie about to start

Sorry this is a long post but I’d like to fully describe my system and then get some feedback on the best way to install a SWCG based on my equipment layout. I’ve attached two photos of the system. One is labeled, the other is basically the same thing but shows the power set up.

At left is the pump. The pipe out of pump goes from 1.5” to 2” before entering filter and then from 2” to 1.5” after leaving filter. Label A shows pipe that is usually closed off. By opening A and closing B, the pump will drain the pool. Pipe A goes under my backyard and empties into the canal at the back edge of my property. B is open when not draining. The length of pipe running along the house that "passes through" B, capped on both ends, at one time lead to a long-gone solar heating system. Now this pipe simply connects to C which heads back about 2’ before turning down into the ground. It must split underground to feed the two return jets at the ends of the pool. Note that, although it looks like it in the photo, pipe C runs under F and is not connected to it in any way. D is the from the skimmer to the pump and E is the from the bottom drain to the pump. F is always closed but old pool guy’s theory is that it leads to a well – with D and E closed I can fill the pool using the pump. I’ve never tried it and plan to use tap water to lower my CYA.

The second photo shows power coming into a switch to turn the pump off outside. The timer for the system is next to my fuse box inside the house so this switch has only been used for pool guy to turn system off when the timer has it on. Heavy gray insulation around wires coming out of switch leads to the pump. The black wire on the wall is cable TV.

Where to put SWCG? I haven’t chosen a system so I don’t know exact lengths needed or horizontal vs vertical mount. I wanted feedback on layout first. The pipe C would be an obvious place to put if it was straight, but it makes a bend to the right. From pipe AB heading toward house to pipe C is only 7.5” before C makes the bend to the right which adds another 3”. So it appears I can’t do a horizontal mount between A and C because they are too close together. Plus I would like to keep valve B (or something like it) to maintain ability to drain the pool. From A to B is 19”. I’m not sure if that is enough length since I think you’re supposed to have some straight pipe heading into and out of a SWCG instead of joints. Another idea is to move B to just right of A to keep shutoff for drain, and then continue toward house before turning upward and doing a vertical mount that connects into C.

Where/how should I tap into power for the SWCG?

One other unrelated question. The pool guy left E turned at 45 degrees. Is this so the pump will draw more from the skimmer than the main drain?
 

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Re: Newbie about to start

The SWG mounting really depends on what system you get. For example, the Compupool has 2 pipes going up into it (see: pictures-of-swg-setups-t54819.html#p451207). That would be easy to put along C, but you could change the C pipe to be straight to the end and then through 2 90s to go down (one less turn = more efficient)

You system could be more efficient as well by using 2" everywhere in stead of stepping down to 1.5" (although maybe it is not worth the effort for you). Also, you appear to have a sweep 90 after the filter which may not be schedule 40 pressure rated.

Yes the E valve is closed some so the skimmer gets more suction.
 

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Re: Newbie about to start

Thanks. I think I see what you're saying. Move that bend in the C pipe all the way over to under F and that will give me a long enough length along C to fit just about any SWGC. Or if I get a compuPool, then I might be able to fit it along existing C pipe right before the bend and after B pipe.

With comment about schedule 40, are you saying that my existing system currently may have a sweep 90 that is too thin walled? Or would there be a potential problem only if I changed to a 2" system?

Also, do you have any comments about how to draw power for the SWG? Are there splitters that would allow me to take what is coming out of the switch box and route power into the pump and power into the SWG?
 
Re: Newbie about to start

Correct ... move the right turn from C under F and you will have plenty of straight pipe for anything.

Based on the pictures, the 2 turns after the filter do not look like Schedule 40 to me, so they may be thin walled and not rated for much pressure. Could become a problem in the future as the sun makes it brittle and depending on your system pressure.

Generally the power to the SWG comes from the same timer as the pump so there is no way to have the SWG on when the pump is off. In your case I guess that is just a manual switch. You should be able to add an electrical box after the switch and then split the power to the pump and the SWG.
 
Re: Newbie about to start

I see. I guess I'll keep an eye on the sweep 90. As far as replacing all of it, I believe most of the pipe between the pump and the filter was replaced last summer when I had to have some parts changed on the pump. I think it's 1.5" coming out of the pump, but the filter takes 2", which seems strange since they're both Hayward products. I'll probably just leave it as is and do what is required to get the SWCG installed.

Yes the manual switch is outside. The timer is inside the house and will control all power heading to the switch, so my SWCG will not have power when the pump is off.

I guess I'll go to Home Depot and look for electrical boxes that will do the job.
 
Re: Newbie about to start

I've just come across someone on Craig's List selling an in-the-unopened-box Aqua Rite system (controller plus cell) for 25K gallon pool. They're asking $600 (I'd offer $400) - the lowest I've seen on web is $710. Is the 25K a good size for my pool? (I currently run the pump 9 hours a day and seems to do okay but I haven't tried to dial it in). Does anyone know if I will still have warranty coverage if I buy off CL?
 
Re: Newbie about to start

We recommend sizing a SWG 1.5-3 times the size of your pool. So, that 25k would be a good fit for your pool.

The warranty is questionable.

By electrical box, I just mean a box similar to what you have that would allow you to wire nut the wires together in it. A set or wires from the switch and then a set of wires to the SWG and a set of wires to the pump. If you have another place on you switch box to connect another conduit, you could just use it, but it is likely getting a little crowded in there.
 
Re: Newbie about to start

OK thanks. I'll have a closer look at the electrical set up and see if I can figure out best way. IF not I might end up paying an electrician to do that part but do the plumbing myself.
 
Re: Newbie about to start

The seller on Craig's List is willing to take $500 for the 25K Aqua Rite SWCG. Since it's unopened, there should be a warranty card inside that I use to register with Hayward. So unless anyone thinks it's a bad idea, I'm going to pull the trigger on it.
 
Re: Newbie about to start

That is the unit I had at my previous house with no issues. Seems like a good price if it is unopened and not an old revision (although I am not sure how to check this).

Warranty card may required receipt / seller information, so still not sure ...

There is a common failure after awhile, but can be fixed with < $5 in parts ... there is a description in a thread somewhere in the forum. If it works out of the box, I would doubt there would need to be a warranty claim.

That system has a flow sensor that is separate from the cell, so you do need to watch the straight pipe distance in front of the sensor. With the mods to C pipe we discussed, that will not be a problem.
 
Re: Newbie about to start

OK thanks. Seller has been holding it for almost a year from client who backed out of having it installed. Probably not old enough to have revision issues but can't be sure. And perhaps I may have warranty issues. I'm willing to take these chances for $200+ savings.

I was wondering about the "flow switch". Glad to hear that my C pipe after mods will still work. I'm going to head over to seller's house and buy in about an hour.
 

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