New to Pools. Very High CYA

[PoolStored]

plus sign

You must have received the TF-100. The Taylor is the pill, the TF is the plus sign.

Fill your sample first to correct line, then drop the "plus sign" into the solution, then you are rockin'

 

[Padle]

You must have received the TF-100. The Taylor is the pill, the TF is the plus sign.

TF-PRO. The instructions they included for me say stir bar multiple times.

 

[Padle]

You need to follow the CYA test instructions. If you are doing it indoors, you will have false readings.

The instructions say to test indoors?

 

[PoolStored]

I called or E-mailed (I don't remember which) Taylor Technologies a while back and asked them how they standardized their test. They recommended the strong indirect lighting and the sun to one's back. I have since compared the CYA test to CYA Standard Solution and found that the technique gave the most accurate result for that standard.

You can still test CYA on a cloudy day since it's still strong indirect light if it's light white clouds -- basically the clouds are doing the "shading" for you -- but if it's dark clouds then that would be too dim. What doesn't work so well is doing the test indoors unless you have some rather strong lighting but do not hold the tube directly in sight of a bright light. It is very, very rare for indoor lighting in a home to be as bright as outdoor indirect light.

Very roughly speaking, direct overhead sunlight is around 100,000 lux, strong indirect light (i.e. shaded from the sun) is around 10,000 lux, an overcast sky is around 1000-5000 lux but varies on how overcast (which is why a bright white cloud overcast is still OK), indoors is usually < 1000 even in a bright kitchen (more typically 500 lux).

 

[mgtfp]

I don't understand why it's telling.mw the calcium is low if it's within range?

There is the "recommended range", and there is the "ideal range".

If it annoys you too much to get warnings that you are outside the "ideal range", then you can activate "Hide ideal range alerts" in PoolMath's Advanced Settings (at the bottom of the settings page).

 

[Newdude]

If it makes you feel any better, I wanted to see the speed stir work so badly that I ran it empty to feel the motor humming. Nothing happened so I replaced the batteries. The next thing I knew it was apart and I was testing the circuit board trying to fix it. Out of fustration i filled it with water and dropped the pill in. Ooooooooooh. It's magnetic with no motor. Whoopsies

 

[PoolStored]

The instructions say to test indoors?

Extended Test Kit Directions Archives

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Padle]

What is considered a abnormal rate of loss of FC that would tell me something is wrong.

What is considered abnormal fluctuation of PH that would tell.me.somethig is wrong.

How much does rain affect both levels?

What's the difference between (Florida) summer and winter in this regard?

 

[PoolStored]

What is considered a abnormal rate of loss of FC that would tell me something is wrong.

It depends on a lot of variables. With SWCG and CYA at 70, I lose about 2ppm/day with cover on and no swimming. If I have swimmers, sun and cover off, I lose 5.5ppm/day. With a constant SWCG % over a week or two appropriate for the season, if my FC starts coming down, it means my CYA has degraded. You will learn your pool over a period of time.

What is considered abnormal fluctuation of PH that would tell.me.somethig is wrong.

This is also very pool dependent. For pools that are new (plaster), or a pool with a lot of waterfeatures and without a cover, pH will rise rapidly. My pool was pH 7.5 all season last year. Added acid at the beginning and end of season (2 additions). Again, you will learn your pool over a period of time.

How much does rain affect both levels?

Again, very dependent on your pool. In general, very little. 1" of rain adds 500 gallons or so to my pool. My pool is 32,000 gallons.

What's the difference between (Florida) summer and winter in this regard?

Your FC demand will be lower in the winter and higher in the summer.

 

[Texas Splash]

What is considered a abnormal rate of loss of FC that would tell me something is wrong.

Unless your CYA is too low to protect the FC, have a large pool party event, or changed a lot of water, a loss of more than 4 ppm of FC in 24 hrs is something to be concerned about.

What is considered abnormal fluctuation of PH that would tell.me.somethig is wrong.

PH typically climbs slowly throughout the week. It shouldn't crash below 7.0 or spike over 8.0 in a matter of 1 day or two unless something drastic happened. Examples could be a very low TA level that is not helping to stabilize the pH and/or overdosing with chemicals.

How much does rain affect both levels?

Unless it's a torrential/heavy rain, it should have little effect.

What's the difference between (Florida) summer and winter in this regard?

In colder air/water temps, the FC loss tends to slow down requiring less chlorine. In cold water the pH tends to rise to a higher level, but the cold water compensates for those owners who are concerned about their CSI level in the PoolMath APP. In general, continue to maintain recommended TFP levels and you'll be fine in either season.

 

[Newdude]

What is considered a abnormal rate of loss of FC that would tell me something is wrong

Pools average 2-4 ppm loss during the season when all is Kosher. Any day can be different based on the weather, but think of a bell curve for UV loss. It's almost nothing for the winter, and in the 4 range during the peak season.

What is considered abnormal fluctuation of PH that would tell.me.somethig is wrong.

Once you've got everything balanced, an existing pool should get several days or a week before you need to adjust PH. With regular testing, you'll get a feel for how yours responds quickly.

How much does rain affect both levels

Only by an applicable %. For FC, 5 inches of 0 FC rain may dilute you by about 10% in your 50 ish inch average depth pool. That's with an absolute deluge. One or two storms won't even be noticeable so long as your mixing.

For PH, it's even less. It the same % math, but rain has a PH in the 5s so it's much closer to pool water than on the FC side. While it's raining, the drops making 1000 surface disturbances will temporarily raise the PH, but you probably won't notice.


***GAH !!!!**** poolstored YET again !!!

*edit 2* AND Pat'd.

 

[Mdragger88]

If you’re currently dosing manually with liquid chlorine the ph patterns you now experience would pretty much stay the same with a swg.
As for fc, if you are ever concerned that daily loss is too high when all the other factors involved have been considered (cya too low, higher uv, higher bather load etc.) or something might be brewing, do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test.

 

[Padle]

@Newdude appreciate the kosher reference.

One thing I don't understand, you said rain will raise PH temporarily. But when it tells how to lower TA, it says add acid then aerate to raise PH, so does aeraration only work temporarily?

 

[Padle]

From what I am understanding from everyone, liquid chlorine needs to be added daily in the summer, and lowering PH is a weekly thing?

 

[Newdude]

@Newdude appreciate the kosher reference.

Wasn't trying, it just flowed right in the sentence. But if you liked it, that's terrific.

But when it tells how to lower TA, it says add acid then aerate to raise PH, so does aeraration only work temporarily?

No, regular aeration makes it remain higher. The rains lower PH helps counteract a little rise once it's mixed and it wasn't a big rise in the first place.

From what I am understanding from everyone, liquid chlorine needs to be added daily in the summer, and lowering PH is a weekly thing?

Bingo !!! Test daily and adjust frequency and amounts as needed. The pool will tell you what it needs if you listen. It will not listen to you.

 

[Mdragger88]

From what I am understanding from everyone, liquid chlorine needs to be added daily in the summer, and lowering PH is a weekly thing?

Test frequently (this will be daily until you learn your pool) & replenish fc as needed to ensure it remains above minimum for your cya at all times (preferably in target range FC/CYA Levels) to keep the pool sanitary & prevent opening the door for algae & nasties to proliferate. Some people dose daily, others a few times a week - whatever your preference, don’t play kissy face with minimum
It is safe for people, equipment, & surfaces all the way up to slam level for your cya.

Whenever ph rises to 8.0 add acid lower it to the mid 7’s - (this may be weekly or less often)
It’s not necessarily a set schedule, just give the pool what it needs when it needs it.
If you don’t test, you won’t know & you will be headed to trouble town & wondering where it all went wrong.
For fc you want to be proactive not reactive.

 

[Padle]

Thanks everyone! So I think I'm getting the TFP method now.

Add FC as needed (possibly daily) to stay in range of CYA

Lower PH every so often to stay in range.

Keep track of TA (though TA is only a issue of one sees the PH fluctuating too much).

Keep track of calcium hardness.

So let me ask. What makes the TFP trouble free? All these other people seem to have a very simple method.
Take sample to store, buy their products, put in pool, and move on.

I am not doubting TFP method, just curious, as I haven't tried the "pool store" method, but it sounds simpler (albiet more expensive)

 

[Newdude]

What makes the TFP trouble free

You are (relaibly) testing and adding only what your pool tells you you need. No more, no less. The pool stores/services subscribe to unreliable and infrequent testing so they really don't know where they are. You can't know how to get where you're going if you don't know where you're standing. As a result, they rely heavy on what we refer to as the 'dump and pray' method. Come weekly for a free test, they say, don't worry about it in-between. But pools lose FC daily and need to be managed as such. So they rely on stabilized chlorine (tabs) which will last the week. They also raise the CYA, which requires more FC to do the same sanitizing. When it spirals out of control they tell you to drain, and then sell you a bunch of balancing chemicals to start the roller coaster all over.

Then they adhere to the industry guidelines for balancing that haven't been updated since the 80s. We've evolved with the science, and used 335k real world members experiences to tweak it further.

I can bore you to tears with what I know about FL poolcare, from what our members have shared. Oodles and oodles of folks who have been in your local shoes and shared what worked for them. The collective wisdom here is off the charts.

Like anything else there is a learning curve, but we'll happily guide you until it's all second nature. You'll never look back and will probably even stick around to help pay it forward.

Speaking of real world members, ask my buddy @PoolStored above how efficient, or cost effective it was. He'll have words to share on this subject.

 

[mgtfp]

So let me ask. What makes the TFP trouble free? All these other people seem to have a very simple method.
Take sample to store, buy their products, put in pool, and move on.

I am not doubting TFP method, just curious, as I haven't tried the "pool store" method, but it sounds simpler (albiet more expensive)

Trouble free doesn't mean work free. In that sense, a pool is like a pet or a pot plant. They all need regular attention - more than money - to stay happy and healthy. That's what trouble free means - staying happy and healthy.

No trips to the vet, pet psychologist or the green bin. Or, in the case of pools, not wasting thousands of $$$ in potions to "fix" problems we don't understand why they occurred in the first place and what the effects, wanted and unwanted, of these potions actually are.

Being able to use your pool whenever you want. Not waking up in the morning of your child's long awaited pool party to a swamp, willing to pay whatever the summer job teenager at the pool store tells you to pay to get the mess miraculously cleaned up.

Not wasting 10s of thousands of $$$ because a perfectly fine pool got wrecked by poor water chemistry.

Being able to tell the difference between good and poor water chemistry and stand up for your rights when an equipment manufacturer is trying to weasel out of a warranty claim because of "poor" water chemistry.

 

[PoolStored]

So let me ask. What makes the TFP trouble free? All these other people seem to have a very simple method.
Take sample to store, buy their products, put in pool, and move on.

ooooooooh, I am PoolStored, because I was pool stored.

TFP: Chlorine, stabilizer, muriatic, test kit. Easy, Trouble Free.

Pool Store: pucks, clarifiers, floc, shock, algaecides, Phos Free, Green to clean, chlorine neutralizers the list is long. Except in rare cases NONE of these are needed. Lots of these products when added to your pool can cause problems. That is NOT trouble free, and a majority of users come here because the got algae, even with all these product, or they have issues because they used these products (i.e. copper staining). Have to drive to the pool store, their testing is flawed, and it is just an opportunity for them to sell you more product you don't need.

I found TFP when I had algae. After daily trips to the pool store for two weeks and >$400, I started to notice that they gave me different recommendations with the same test results. I figured there had to be a better way. I don't know how this pool store owner lives with himself. It is shameful.

I don't care if someone wants to patronize their pool store. Good for you supporting local business. Just avoid their testing and chemical recommendations. Literally 100s of THOUSANDS of people have come here because of it.