New salt pool - Pool guy wrong? Or me?

[EDAM72]

What model SWG and cell do you have? I don't see it in your signature.

Only clean the cell with acid if there is visible white scale on the plates that cannot be cleaned off with strong blasts of water and scraping with a Popsicle stick. Acid cleaning removes rare earths from the plates and reduces the life of the cell everytime you do it.

Thanks for the advice, I added it to my sig, Pentair IC 40. I'll see if it can be cleaned without acid first.

 

[EDAM72]

What model SWG and cell do you have? I don't see it in your signature.

Only clean the cell with acid if there is visible white scale on the plates that cannot be cleaned off with strong blasts of water and scraping with a Popsicle stick. Acid cleaning removes rare earths from the plates and reduces the life of the cell everytime you do it.

Well AJ, no such luck. I just finished cleaning the cartridge filters. It looked like at least a year or more of caked material. No spot was left un-caked on the filters, so much so that they broke bands and started started collapsing in areas as it couldn't suck water freely. I'll need to order a new set soon. So then I open the SWG which was supposedly cleaned a month ago and it was heavily calcified. Too much between the cells for stick cleaning and water pressure. I am taking a break while wife gets some popsicle sticks to so I can remove as much as able with those and rinsing. Then it will need an acid soak..... smh.

 

[ajw22]

Your CSI of 0.51 is creating the scaling in the SWG. If you are going to have a high CH you just keep your pH down towards 7.2 to lower your CSI.

 

[setsailsoon]

I think Allen's on to the right track. I was meticulous about keeping the CSI between 0 and -.2. In my 3rd year and had no evidence of calcium deposits in the cell.

 

[EDAM72]

Your CSI of 0.51 is creating the scaling in the SWG. If you are going to have a high CH you just keep your pH down towards 7.2 to lower your CSI.

I completely agree sir. That was my next thing to tackle after getting FC and CYA going. The filter and SWG is clean, pool is up and running again. I'll work on getting CYA up a bit as recommended. Work on PH, then post one last set. I think I am all good now. Thanks everyone for the advice and it feels good to know pool is good to go again.

 

[EDAM72]

Ok, done for the day. Working on getting CYA up and PH down.
Salt cell is now reading salt high at 4850

My K-1766 salt kit was consistently giving a reading of 3800, now it reads 4000. I tried an Acurite salt strip and it reads 3710 (which it has been).

I'll look into that tomorrow if able. I am guessing will still be ok and produce if salt is high?

 

[mknauss]

High salt error occurs around 4500ppm. The cell will continue generating chlorine with a high salt warning.

 

[EDAM72]

High salt error occurs around 4500ppm. The cell will continue generating chlorine with a high salt warning.

Thanks, I will start to read the forum and pool school for all things salt pool related. I assume the salt will start to go down.

The issue now is the PH, which I had been adding a little muriatic acid everyday and no budge. After some quick reading I see that PH is affected by the salt cell use (running too long or too much). So I need to research all of this now around SWG. Not sure if I can have SWG automatically shut off during a run cycle, I assume I just lower the output. As I assume I still need to run pump a certain amount of time to filter pool adequately.

Last test
FC 8
PH 8
TA 70
CH 590
CYA 30
Salt 4000
CSI .47

Salt cell is definitely working much better now that it was cleaned of all the buildup. Like I said above, I need to research SWG use. Pump runs at night and not at all during the day.
This probably should be a separate post if I have SWG and PH questions later.
All the stores I went to were out of conditioner, but will get that up when I find more.

 

[mknauss]

I assume the salt will start to go down.

Only if you have overflow and replace with fresh water. Evaporation does not remove salt. My salt level rises over time as muriatic acid reacts to leave chloride in the water.

After some quick reading I see that PH is affected by the salt cell use

Not really. It provides a very small amount of aeration. But your fill water has high TA and that does put pressure on your pH to rise.

 

[EDAM72]

Ok, so it sounds like doing the acid until PH is at desired level is the correct method here. I'll need to see what is the best run time and percentage level for the SWG. Seems a bit too high and long right now. If I want to run pump just as long, I assume I just lower percentage to reduce chlorine output and save the cell.

I started watching your video on Salt water pools, and as I have time I'll continue to research. Until then I'll try to reduce output based on how much Chlorine I lose today and what pool math says it will produce during the nighttime run.

 

[setsailsoon]

72,

Great to hear your swg is working!

I had a chlorine pool for about 5 years and then converted to salt. Lowering TA to 50 helped a lot for liquid and swg pool. I never noticed any difference in pH control after switching to salt. Most of what you read about that has to do with people that are using trichlor tablets and switch to salt. Trichlor is about half CYA and it is very acidic. When I traveled with the liquid chlorine system I used tablets and never had to add acid. Unfortunately there is a lot of misrepresentation about pH and salt because of this. When you stop adding CYA (acid) you have to replace it with MA and this doesn't cause your CYA to rise to unacceptable levels.

If you can't find stabilizer granules you can buy it online at Amazon and Walmart. Just get the cheapest $/LB that is 100% stabilizer with no "other ingredients". I've used Pure Tec and it works fine.

Chris

 

[red-beard]

Ok, so it sounds like doing the acid until PH is at desired level is the correct method here. I'll need to see what is the best run time and percentage level for the SWG. Seems a bit too high and long right now. If I want to run pump just as long, I assume I just lower percentage to reduce chlorine output and save the cell.

I started watching your video on Salt water pools, and as I have time I'll continue to research. Until then I'll try to reduce output based on how much Chlorine I lose today and what pool math says it will produce during the nighttime run.

IN the pool math app, there is an "effects of adding" selection that is "SWG". use the magnifying glass to select your SWG model. You can select how much FC to generate per day and then select for run time or %, or FC generated.

 

[Stoopalini]

You have a variable speed pump, right? The easiest way to manage the chlorine production is to run the pump at a low speed for 24x7, so chlorine can be generated at any time. Then you simply adjust the % duty cycle on the generator for increase or decrease chlorine production. I run mine at 1300 RPM, and schedule it to kick up to 2500 RPM twice a day, for one hour each time; just for improved surface skimming. This ends up costing me $0.30 a day, or roughly, $110 a year in electricity.

A variable speed pump is MUCH more efficient and cost effective to run when you run it at a low RPM. Just be sure the RPM you choose is about 200 RPM over the minimum speed at which the SWCG flow switch is activated.

In terms of the calcium buildup on the SWCG plates ... it seems the high pH and Calcium content drove your CSI into the positive. Then take into account that inside the SWCG cell itself, the water temp and pH is driven up even higher due to the electrolysis process happening inside the cell. Then, if the circulation pump turns off while the cell is generating (and set to 80%, chances are pretty good this was happening), the high pH and high temp water ends up sitting in the cell since the water stops flowing.

So running the pump 24x7 mitigates against this issue. You'll also be able to set the SWCG at a much lower % duty cycle when running 24x7.

Something else to consider is adding 50ppm borates (ie: boric acid) to the water. This not only helps buffer the pH rise, but also protects against scale from building up on the SWCG plates. I just added borates to my salt pool last week, and wish I had done it sooner.

Borates in pool - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[EDAM72]

Thanks again all for the assistance. Pool is doing much better, getting CYA up slowly and PH down.
Pool is holding FC during daylight hours very well now, very minimal loss even in sun.
The salt cell keeps reading high salt-going back and forth between 4900-5000. Salt test keeps showing 3800-4000. So not sure if there is some reset (I read the new model IC40 cant be reset).

Latest results
FC 5
PH 7.8
TA 70 (it is slowly coming down-as its more like between 60-70 when it was a hard 70 before)
CH 590 (again-not super sure on this one as the color change is slow and minimal
CYA 40 (with CYA being added daily to get to 70)
Salt 3800
temp 89
CSI .26

I estimate will be good to go in a few days and then will look at the strategies. Thanks!

 

[Newdude]

I estimate will be good to go in a few days and then will look at the strategies

Here ya go !!!

 

[EDAM72]

Alright all,
latest results, I think I made an initial mistake on CH levels, lighting wasn't great, so did outside in natural light. The color change very gradual. I will most likely get a drain and replace in off season going so I can also clean the scale ring around the tile and start with fresh fill water.
FC 4.5
PH 7.4
TA 70
CH 900 So the water starts turning purple at 700, getting more blue at 800, and a definite blue at 900. So I assume it is actually 900?
CYA 60
salt 3800
CSI .02

It's just about there, but again, given the hard water, solids floating in pool, and scale ring, I think I will do a drain, clean and refill when it gets cooler.
Thanks!

 

[mknauss]

CH 900 So the water starts turning purple at 700, getting more blue at 800, and a definite blue at 900. So I assume it is actually 900?

Yes.

 

[Bperry]

Alright all,
latest results, I think I made an initial mistake on CH levels, lighting wasn't great, so did outside in natural light. The color change very gradual. I will most likely get a drain and replace in off season going so I can also clean the scale ring around the tile and start with fresh fill water.
FC 4.5
PH 7.4
TA 70
CH 900 So the water starts turning purple at 700, getting more blue at 800, and a definite blue at 900. So I assume it is actually 900?
CYA 60
salt 3800
CSI .02

It's just about there, but again, given the hard water, solids floating in pool, and scale ring, I think I will do a drain, clean and refill when it gets cooler.
Thanks!

I have the same issue with the CH test, but mine seems to convince me it’s blue around 450. I’d read that the non-obvious end point may be caused by metals in the water.

 

[EDAM72]

Ok, PH still continues to rise, and as I add acid TA keeps going down. TA ideal range according to pool math is 60-80. It doesnt seem like I should have to add acid daily, might as well be adding chlorine daily to my chlorine pool.
I'll read some threads and articles on TFP for this.
Latest-
FC 4
PH 7.4
TA 60
CH 900
CYA 60
Salt 3800
CSI -.08

 

[mknauss]