New Pool - Valve Settings

[Erik13]

Hey Everyone,

Trying to figure out the valve setup on our new pool. The builder won’t provide any help or info, so I appreciate anything.

I labeled the suction and return sides after some fiddling. Now I’m trying to figure out the valve settings, also considering the automated valves, to make pool mode/spa mode/spillover mode work. Builder definitely confirmed during planning that the automation would handle these modes.



For now, I made it work so that the spa stays full and barely spills over into the pool (from the 12” raised spa). I’ve kept it running like that for the first 30 days while we did all the water balancing and brushing.

If there’s any further info needed, just let me know!

 

[Ahultin]

Are you sure spa drain and main drain aren't reversed? The main drain and skimmer should be on the same side of the automated suction valve.
Did the pb install the actuators? On the return side I can see a check valve on the spa "floor returns" so it appears that is intended to be the make up line to run spillway. I would assume that the intent would then be for the valve actuator to be on the jandy to the left so that when you call for spa it closes the pool returns (and spa makeup line) and directs all flow to spa jets. Also with the spa jets line cracked open (unless there is a check valve under there) the spa will drain down thru that line if the pump is off

 

[Erik13]

Are you sure spa drain and main drain aren't reversed? The main drain and skimmer should be on the same side of the automated suction valve.
Did the pb install the actuators? On the return side I can see a check valve on the spa "floor returns" so it appears that is intended to be the make up line to run spillway. I would assume that the intent would then be for the valve actuator to be on the jandy to the left so that when you call for spa it closes the pool returns (and spa makeup line) and directs all flow to spa jets. Also with the spa jets line cracked open (unless there is a check valve under there) the spa will drain down thru that line if the pump is off

That was my thought on the main and spa drain as well. I’m going to have to jump in the pool and re-confirm those two. Yes, PB did the actuators (they did everything). You’re correct about the check valve on the makeup line, and there’s no check valve on the spa jets line. I actually can’t completely close the spa jets because the actuator is in the way on the return side. And the spa definitely empties out of the pump is turned down or off, which is disappointing that a check valve could fix that but wasn’t installed.

I guess my problem is I’m not seeing how these actuators can accomplish the 3 modes (pool/spa/spillover) in their current configuration- I’d think there needs to be one more actuator on the return side?

 

[Ahultin]

I guess my problem is I’m not seeing how these actuators can accomplish the 3 modes (pool/spa/spillover) in their current configuration- I’d think there needs to be one more actuator on the return side?

What automation do you have ?
Assuming the suction side you just have spa main and pool main labeled backwards, if the return actuator was moved to the left jandy valve and the jandy between spa floor return and pool returns was set to close spa returns, then auto,action would be able to do what you want.
In pool mode, spa main drain would be closed and spa jets would be closed
In spa mode , the manifold to pool main drain/skimmer/suction cleaner would be closed and the manifold to pool returns/spa floor drain would be closed.
In spillway mode, spa main drain would be closed and the manifold to pool returns/spa floor returns would be closed.

If you remove the return actuator temporarily (4 screws) use the handle to close spa floor returns and fully close spa jets, moving the suction side actuator to close the right side manifold skimmer/ drain/cleaner, the spa should start to drain if the drains are labeled backwards which would provide confirmation. (Stay close as you dont want to fully drain the spa and run the pump dry )

 

[Jimrahbe]

Erik,

If we assume that the actuators are on the right valves, then there is only one way it will work.

See pic below...




If you are sure about the Spa jets line and the Spa Floor return, then the actuator is on the wrong Return valve.

I now see a check valve that I did not see before.. See below.


Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Ahultin]

The one he has marked as spa floor return is the one with the check valve.

 

[Erik13]

What automation do you have ?
Assuming the suction side you just have spa main and pool main labeled backwards, if the return actuator was moved to the left jandy valve and the jandy between spa floor return and pool returns was set to close spa returns, then auto,action would be able to do what you want.
In pool mode, spa main drain would be closed and spa jets would be closed
In spa mode , the manifold to pool main drain/skimmer/suction cleaner would be closed and the manifold to pool returns/spa floor drain would be closed.
In spillway mode, spa main drain would be closed and the manifold to pool returns/spa floor returns would be closed.

If you remove the return actuator temporarily (4 screws) use the handle to close spa floor returns and fully close spa jets, moving the suction side actuator to close the right side manifold skimmer/ drain/cleaner, the spa should start to drain if the drains are labeled backwards which would provide confirmation. (Stay close as you dont want to fully drain the spa and run the pump dry )

Jandy Aqualink on a RS4.

I was decently confident on the two drains because the spa began to empty out when I opened what I have now as the spa drain. However I didn’t think to consider a check valve might not be in a correct place for the system to backfeed, which could appear to be the spa draining when it actually isn’t. I’ll get back out there and run through your diagnostic.

Thank you for all of this help!

 

[Erik13]

Erik,

If we assume that the actuators are on the right valves, then there is only one way it will work.

See pic below...

View attachment 489907


If you are sure about the Spa jets line and the Spa Floor return, then the actuator is on the wrong Return valve.

I now see a check valve that I did not see before.. See below.


Thanks,

Jim R.View attachment 489917

I thought I was sure, but now I want to confirm as much as possible to rule out the PB’s mess up - which I wouldn’t be surprised with, the entire project was a disaster.

I really appreciate all this help!

 

[Erik13]

What automation do you have ?
Assuming the suction side you just have spa main and pool main labeled backwards, if the return actuator was moved to the left jandy valve and the jandy between spa floor return and pool returns was set to close spa returns, then auto,action would be able to do what you want.
In pool mode, spa main drain would be closed and spa jets would be closed
In spa mode , the manifold to pool main drain/skimmer/suction cleaner would be closed and the manifold to pool returns/spa floor drain would be closed.
In spillway mode, spa main drain would be closed and the manifold to pool returns/spa floor returns would be closed.

If you remove the return actuator temporarily (4 screws) use the handle to close spa floor returns and fully close spa jets, moving the suction side actuator to close the right side manifold skimmer/ drain/cleaner, the spa should start to drain if the drains are labeled backwards which would provide confirmation. (Stay close as you dont want to fully drain the spa and run the pump dry )

Ok, so ran through this troubleshoot. Here’s a pic of the valves as I read you your instructions:


The result, the spa fell to the water line of the pool, but then never went any lower. I let it run like this for probably another 15-20 minutes after the initial level off with the pool water level, and the spa water level change after that was an inch maybe.



Also, one I had the spa mostly empty, I took the chance to confirm the returns, which they are correct as shown on the tape. @Jimrahbe

 

[Ahultin]

Try flipping the suction side back to close the spa main drain and flip the first return jandy valve to spa jets. This should simulate spillover if the actuator was placed on that jandy

 

[Jimrahbe]

Erik,

Your labels on the Return side make sense to me. The only problem on that side is that your actuator needs to be on the other Jandy valve.

Your labels on the Suction side do not make sense as the Main Drain can not be where you have it labeled. If that is truly the main drain, then you would have to keep it off to ever use the spa.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Ahultin]

Also, one I had the spa mostly empty, I took the chance to confirm the returns, which they are correct as shown on the tape. @Jimrahbe

I'm wondering if the spa floor return between the spa drains is not really a return but an equalizer port to the pool which would explain why the level of the spa never fell much beyond pool level?
If you drain the spa down below jet level again (valves set per your photo in 9 above) then close the "pool return" side of the valve that had the actuator initially does the return come out the spa jets?

 

[Erik13]

I'm wondering if the spa floor return between the spa drains is not really a return but an equalizer port to the pool which would explain why the level of the spa never fell much beyond pool level?
If you drain the spa down below jet level again (valves set per your photo in 9 above) then close the "pool return" side of the valve that had the actuator initially does the return come out the spa jets?

If this helps, when I had the spa mostly emptied, if you look at the return side in my post 9 above I flipped the valve to close the pool returns and open the make up/floor return while keeping the spa jets closed, and the floor return wasn’t geysering but it was close. So that’s why I feel confident that valve/return is correct.

 

[Erik13]

Try flipping the suction side back to close the spa main drain and flip the first return jandy valve to spa jets. This should simulate spillover if the actuator was placed on that jandy

With it set this way, there’s the smallest amount of trickle over the spillover:



With it set this way instead, the spillover is basically a waterfall within 20 seconds of changing from the prior valve setup above:

 

[Erik13]

Erik,

Your labels on the Return side make sense to me. The only problem on that side is that your actuator needs to be on the other Jandy valve.

Your labels on the Suction side do not make sense as the Main Drain can not be where you have it labeled. If that is truly the main drain, then you would have to keep it off to ever use the spa.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Ok, and I see which valve you're pointing out in your photo with the notes on it - the first valve in order on the return side.

I just responded above trying to nail down the drains, if that helps on that side of things.

 

[Ahultin]

So return is good you just need to move the actuator.
Suction is an issue as it appears to be labeled correct. The right thing to do in order for it to work as expected is :

 

[Ahultin]

The other thing you could do at least for now without major plumbing is move the suction actuator 1 valve right, and leave the pool main drain closed which is what Jim described above

 

[Erik13]

I'm wondering if the spa floor return between the spa drains is not really a return but an equalizer port to the pool which would explain why the level of the spa never fell much beyond pool level?
If you drain the spa down below jet level again (valves set per your photo in 9 above) then close the "pool return" side of the valve that had the actuator initially does the return come out the spa jets?

Ran through confirming the spa jets versus the make up line. Here’s the first configuration, and the result (no jet output, water coming up from floor):




Then I switched the valve over to what I have labeled as the jets, and here’s what we got:





So I think we nailed down the return side with this info.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Erik,

You need to move the Suction Actuator over one valve to the right.. and the Return actuator one valve to the left.

Then turn the (now manual suction valve) so that the pool Main Drain is shut off. (You will not be able to use the main for now...)

The whole point of all this is you want to be able to automatically select either the Spa or the Pool modes.

If you move the two actuators like we discussed, then...

1. When you go to the Spa mode, all the water will be sucked from the Spa Drain, and returned to the spa jets.

2. When you go to the Pool mode, all the water will be sucked from the Pool (Skimmer) and most of the water will be returned to the pool eyeballs, but a little water will go the the Spa floor (Make up line). This extra spa water will cause the spa to spillover into the pool.

Later, if you want, you can try to fix your main drain plumbing, but I think it makes sense to get the pool running first and then worry about the main drain. You do not need a main drain. There are thousands and thousands of pools out there without operating main drains and they all work just fine.

Try that and see what happens. Please let us know the results.

Thanks,

 

[Erik13]

Erik,

You need to move the Suction Actuator over one valve to the right.. and the Return actuator one valve to the left.

Then turn the (now manual suction valve) so the the pool Main Drain is shut off. (You will not be able to use the main for now...)

The whole point of all this is you want to be able to automatically select either the Spa or the Pool modes.

If you move the two actuators like we discussed, then...

1. When you go to the Spa mode, all the water will be sucked from the Spa Drain, and returned to the spa jets.

2. When you go to the Pool mode, all the water will be sucked from the Pool (Skimmer) and most of the water will be returned to the pool eyeballs, but a little water will go the the Spa floor (Make up line). This extra spa water will cause the spa to spillover into the pool.

Later, if you want, you can try to fix your main drain plumbing, but I think it makes sense to get the pool running first and then worry about the main drain. You do not need a main drain. There are thousands and thousands of pools out there without operating main drains and they all work just fine.

Try that and see what happens. Please let us know the results.

Thanks,

@Ahultin hey guys! Heard back from the builder on this issue. He acknowledged the spa and main drain hookups are backwards, like we troubleshot so far in this thread. So after that change, and moving the actuators, should we be good? Are we able to have the separate pool mode/spa mode/spillover mode with the equipment in place?

Also, is there a way to add another actuator for the skimmer/cleaner diverter valve to a RS4? I’m starting to dive into that question on here.