New pool owner, first post, just getting started

[needsajet]

Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started

At the right level, CYA is your friend (stabilizes the chlorine, acts like pH buffer does for pH) and at the wrong level, it's your enemy. The experts have said to get it down to 50. If you were at 120, and you drained 5K from 30K, you're still at around 100.

I feel your pain, but at 100, your SLAM level is 39 ppm FC. That's 80 drops of reagent for each test, around 10 gallons of 12.5% chlorinating liquid, or 14 gallons of 8.5% bleach just for the initial charge of chlorine.

At 50, your SLAM level is 20 ppm FC (40 drops of reagent, 5 gal 12.5% or 7 gal 8.5%)

If you can see algae, you definitely need to SLAM. You'll be doing the test 10 or 12 times at least. And adding bleach like crazy. The SLAM is totally the right thing to do to make your pool easy to take care of afterwards. As long as your CYA stays up at 100, even after all the algae is dead, you'll be targeting around 10 ppm FC instead of 5 to keep it safe. The drain and refill is just the most practical thing to do, and makes for less work overall.

It's possible to do the SLAM at 100, but just not practical. And caring for your pool after will continue to take more effort as well.

I'm no expert, but if it was my pool, with 0 FC, after I was done for the day with the drain/refill stuff, I'd dump 2 or 3 gallons of bleach in, to stop the SLAM from being more work. That algae is multiplying, and 10 ppm FC (at 100 CYA) would at least stop the growth. I think it's a good bet that your pool isn't green already because the water is still cold.

Sorry for the long post, but cold makes me think of two other things that might help. If your water is below 70 degrees, allow the sample to warm up to room temperature before adding the CYA reagent. The other is a cold beer or two while waiting for it to warm up!!

 

[joninnj]

Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started

At the right level, CYA is your friend (stabilizes the chlorine, acts like pH buffer does for pH) and at the wrong level, it's your enemy. The experts have said to get it down to 50. If you were at 120, and you drained 5K from 30K, you're still at around 100.

I feel your pain, but at 100, your SLAM level is 39 ppm FC. That's 80 drops of reagent for each test, around 10 gallons of 12.5% chlorinating liquid, or 14 gallons of 8.5% bleach just for the initial charge of chlorine.

At 50, your SLAM level is 20 ppm FC (40 drops of reagent, 5 gal 12.5% or 7 gal 8.5%)

If you can see algae, you definitely need to SLAM. You'll be doing the test 10 or 12 times at least. And adding bleach like crazy. The SLAM is totally the right thing to do to make your pool easy to take care of afterwards. As long as your CYA stays up at 100, even after all the algae is dead, you'll be targeting around 10 ppm FC instead of 5 to keep it safe. The drain and refill is just the most practical thing to do, and makes for less work overall.

It's possible to do the SLAM at 100, but just not practical. And caring for your pool after will continue to take more effort as well.

I'm no expert, but if it was my pool, with 0 FC, after I was done for the day with the drain/refill stuff, I'd dump 2 or 3 gallons of bleach in, to stop the SLAM from being more work. That algae is multiplying, and 10 ppm FC (at 100 CYA) would at least stop the growth. I think it's a good bet that your pool isn't green already because the water is still cold.

Sorry for the long post, but cold makes me think of two other things that might help. If your water is below 70 degrees, allow the sample to warm up to room temperature before adding the CYA reagent. The other is a cold beer or two while waiting for it to warm up!!

Water has been below 60, so you have given me a little hope that my CYA is not as high as it has been reading. Will check it when I get home. Hard to do all this when I am at work most of the day!

- - - Updated - - -

Once you've refilled, ran the filter, and retested everything, then adjust your ph to 7.2, check the slam level you need in the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] - use Pool Math to calculate how much cal hypo to add to get to the target Slam FC and you're on your way

What is the best way to add the cal hypo? (For others, remember that I have 2 large tubs of this stuff, so I am using it up before going to chlorine.) Sorry for all these basic questions, all so new to me!

 

[joninnj]

(Whichever mod fixed the extra comma in the subject of this thread, thanks!)

 

[joninnj]

Did tests after the drain and fill.
pH 7.2
FC 0
CC .5
TC .5
CH 325 (really not sure about this, drops came out faster than I could count a few times)
TA 180
CYA 80 (still trying to figure out this test, hard to tell when dot disappears, did this with a 50% dilution and water closer to room temp)

Honestly, I probably should do another partial drain and fill, but I just don't have the energy and time during the week. Put in 8-10 pounds of 73% cal hypo. Should get it near SLAM levels. Will do an OLCT tonight and report back. This whole thing is wearing me down. And the Polaris 360 is still mostly floating around aimlessly, not getting the silt and debris at the bottom. Will keep plugging away at this. 11 more days until Memorial Day weekend...

 

[joninnj]

I also was afraid of the pool going green with warmer weather coming and a FC of 0.

 

[jblizzle]

Was the CYA of 80ppm what you read on the tube and thus it needs to be doubled to get the true CYA? Or did you read 40ppm and double it to 80ppm?

 

[joninnj]

Was the CYA of 80ppm what you read on the tube and thus it needs to be doubled to get the true CYA? Or did you read 40ppm and double it to 80ppm?

Read 40 and doubled to 80 for the dilution. But still not 100% sure about the disappearing dot.

 

[joninnj]

Well, after what I thought might be an adequate SLAM, FC only 20, CC 0.5 (target FC 31 if CYA 80 is to be believed). And this after dumping what seems to be a lot (estimate 10 pounds) of cal hypo. So nothing like the school of hard knocks. Will now plan:
1. Another partial drain and fill (no idea how I will pull this off with work during the week, but try I must).
2. Start buying a lot of liquid bleach (those two buckets of cal hypo are going fast with these CYA levels).

Anyhow, will check FC levels in AM to get a sense of consumption...

 

[Swampwoman]

Chin up, Jonathan, you WILL have a sparkley-pants trouble free pool SOON

 

[needsajet]

No apologies needed and never hesitate to ask questions, that's how it'll get done. And you'll end up with a pool that's easy to look after.

Does this sound right re: pool size?... 4' shallow end, 9' deep end (I see a diving board), 20' x 40' has been measured and does not include the steps? If so, you're around 35,000 gals, and 8 lbs 73% CalHypo would have added 23 ppm FC, some of which would get eaten up right away.

Heads-up that the pool may be whitish to light brownish cloudy in the morning from dead algae carcasses.

Great that your CYA is looking more like 80 - well done. I'm assuming you have read Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain and you intend to follow the procedure as described (as best you can between work and other life) and you may yet do another drain/refill this week, which would be great if you can get it done.

If your FC drops overnight, and since you can't top up through the day, then get your FC up to 35 or so in the morning. Brush all you can - especially those green patches. Brushing breaks the bio-film that protects the algae from the chlorine. I'm also assuming that with the pool full, your pump is moving the water around OK. Is there anyone at home before you through the day who could add a jug of bleach around mid-day?

If need be, leave the Polaris troubles to give you more time for the main event - your SLAM and/or drain-refill. With pump and normal filtration running 24/7, a lot of the suspended stuff is being removed, so watch your filter pressure. Try 20 or 30 minutes of manual vacuuming to pick some up off the bottom. Vacuuming to waste and then refilling will also help dilute the CYA. Good luck and you're on your way to a sparkly pool!

I forget, has the DE filter been done, and/or are you prepared to deal with it when the pressure rises? Might need some DE on hand, which you could pick up when you get the chlorinating liquid. Given your time pressures, it's an option to buy 12.5% pool chlorine for a bit more money and less lugging stuff around.

 

[joninnj]

No apologies needed and never hesitate to ask questions, that's how it'll get done. And you'll end up with a pool that's easy to look after.

Does this sound right re: pool size?... 4' shallow end, 9' deep end (I see a diving board), 20' x 40' has been measured and does not include the steps? If so, you're around 35,000 gals, and 8 lbs 73% CalHypo would have added 23 ppm FC, some of which would get eaten up right away.

Heads-up that the pool may be whitish to light brownish cloudy in the morning from dead algae carcasses.

Great that your CYA is looking more like 80 - well done. I'm assuming you have read Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain and you intend to follow the procedure as described (as best you can between work and other life) and you may yet do another drain/refill this week, which would be great if you can get it done.

If your FC drops overnight, and since you can't top up through the day, then get your FC up to 35 or so in the morning. Brush all you can - especially those green patches. Brushing breaks the bio-film that protects the algae from the chlorine. I'm also assuming that with the pool full, your pump is moving the water around OK. Is there anyone at home before you through the day who could add a jug of bleach around mid-day?

If need be, leave the Polaris troubles to give you more time for the main event - your SLAM and/or drain-refill. With pump and normal filtration running 24/7, a lot of the suspended stuff is being removed, so watch your filter pressure. Try 20 or 30 minutes of manual vacuuming to pick some up off the bottom. Vacuuming to waste and then refilling will also help dilute the CYA. Good luck and you're on your way to a sparkly pool!

I forget, has the DE filter been done, and/or are you prepared to deal with it when the pressure rises? Might need some DE on hand, which you could pick up when you get the chlorinating liquid. Given your time pressures, it's an option to buy 12.5% pool chlorine for a bit more money and less lugging stuff around.

Pool is 3' shallow, 8' deep, so may be closer to 30,000 than 35,000 (or in between). In any case, it's good to see all the calculations make sense. I am going to try to squeeze in another drain and fill tomorrow. Frustrating how the drain takes so long. Will try to make sure the skimmers are fully shut off once it gets below them.

On the DE, baseline is 16. I have already done one backwash successfully. However, before the drain and fill, it was up to 20. After drain and fill, it seems to be hovering around 16. Odd. Cleared strainer baskets, pump filter. Will keep a close eye on it.

Thanks for all the help, everyone. Couldn't do this without all your help, and no way I would want a pool store to manage it!

 

[joninnj]

Hmm. Ran my morning OLCT test. Exactly the same as last night: FC 20, CC 0.5, TC 20.5.

Could this really be the case? Zero chlorine consumption overnight. Pump was running. Could there really be no algae despite the green step and a little green around the edges (when opened)? When the pool guy opened the pool, he did throw in a TON (I think he said 20 pounds) of cal hypo. Initial FC was zero. It was 3 the next day (didn't test it the night of opening). And two days after that (after the 5k gallon drain and fill), it was zero. Water has been and remains clear (but cold).

So is it possible that the pool "passed" the OLCT with a CYA of 80 and FC of 20? I suppose with a CYA of 80 I should still do the partial drain and fill I had been planning to to today anyway.

 

[AimeeH]

Good day Jonathan. Passing OCLT is always a good thing but if the water isn't pristine clear, you aren't done yet. If you see algae, it WILL multiply. I've been through this myself in the last week since opening green pool a little over a week ago so I know it's frustrating.

I know you were struggling with getting a manual vacuum hooked up but have you been brushing? Need to be brushing as frequently as possible. This is what will stir the algae up into the chlorinated water to be killed. algae developers a biofilm that helps protect it from the chlorine hence the need to brush.

SLAM is done when you pass all three criteria

Clear water
Pass OCLT
Cc less than .5

Sounds like you haven't reached all three?.........clear water? No algae

Unless the green you mention is another sort of stain? Does it brush off?

 

[joninnj]

Well, water has been and is pristine clear (it's been pretty clear since opening, never any green water, but still cold water). But what I saw before (on the top step and along top edge of pool at water line) was definitely algae. Brushed it right off at opening (step) and two days later during the drain (top edge). So that's why I am confused. Clear water, pass OCLT, and CC 0.5. But definitely saw algae (not now but 2-4 days ago).

 

[needsajet]

That's great news for sure, though I'm with AimeeH on this. Brush to break the biofilm. Get the FC up to SLAM level of 31 and see if it holds tonight. Is the green algae on edge and steps gone completely now? Has the whole pool been brushed (sides all the way down and the bottom of the pool)? If yes to both those, then tonight would be a safe second night for OCLT at full SLAM level - and you'll have done a very quick SLAM

Doing the drain/refill after will bring your FC down at the same time as you bring down the CYA, and it will be safe for swimming. Or you can do the drain/refill first and do the (hopefully) final night at the new SLAM level.

 

[AimeeH]

Too many times I have personally let my chlorine drop from SLAM level too soon only to have the algae come right back. In my pool it hides in nooks behind skimmer boxes and behind the plates around my lights as well as in the tiniest crevices where my fiberglass steps meet the vinyl.

I'm not trying to be discouraging at all. Thinking you are done, only to start the battle again is much more discouraging. I'm quick to give my kids a hand brush (meant for kitchen use) when they are in the pool to brush all those hard to get spots. Brushing brushing and more brushing is best way at defeating algae for good with SLAM.

 

[pooldv]

+1 to brushing and going a little longer and putting the kids to work. We SLAMed an extra week last summer just to be sure. Since it is safe to swim with FC up to shock level we were swimmin and slammin at 28 FC. Nobody even noticed since I have the keys to the test kit!

 

[joninnj]

Draining now. Fill should be done by tomorrow. Will continue SLAM tomorrow for sure at the lower CYA.

The entire pool has NOT been brushed and vacuumed. Still some leaves and a fair amount of silt. I am sure there is unbrushed biofilm. Will brush after I get my new brush head (broke old one with over vigorous brushing!). And still need to figure out both the manual vacuum and the Polaris.

I know this all needs to be done. Just plugging along. Though I am encouraged that my FC held at 20 last night.

 

[joninnj]

Drain going much faster than before, probably because I started the garden hose siphon immediately and shot off the skimmers completely as soon as the water was below them. With the second drain and fill underway, and my FC holding at 20 last night, I am feeling a lot more confident about the water.

Now thinking ahead to the cleaning, will get a brush and apply all your tips for manual vacuuming, eventually figuring out the Polaris 360. Hopeful that will get me over the top. Question, though. Is this amount of leaves, debris, and gunk normal for a newly opened pool? It was under a mesh safety cover. My recollection of the pool inspection (before we bought the house in November) does not remember seeing all this at the bottom of the pool. This is after some marginally effective vacuuming.

 

[pooldv]

That isn't too bad. We've seen a lot worse, that's for sure! FC holding over night is definitely a good thing. You'll have it in shape in no time. Nice work!