new pool in tucson az

I have been reading the POOL SCHOOL and the Pentair manuals. Also talking to the plaster guy. If I read this right, Pentair says to not add salt or use the SWG for a month. Plaster guy says 1 week. Plaster guy says I can swim right away. If no salt added on my part and SWG not working...how do I chlorinate the pool? Do we swim for a MONTH with nothing but recirculating water?

Omg I am about to go through the same thing. Pb says can swim pretty much straight away and heat pump can go on within a few days. Heat pump says a few days is fine too but everything I see says at least a few months for plaster to settle. Also read not to swim for 2-4 weeks. I also get the impression that the SWG will go on in a few days too, rather than the month I’ve read about here and elsewhere. My head is spinning and I’m confused but I don’t want to go against my pb. Sorry, I’m no help!
 
I have been reading the POOL SCHOOL and the Pentair manuals. Also talking to the plaster guy. If I read this right, Pentair says to not add salt or use the SWG for a month. Plaster guy says 1 week. Plaster guy says I can swim right away. If no salt added on my part and SWG not working...how do I chlorinate the pool? Do we swim for a MONTH with nothing but recirculating water?

No, you'll add liquid chlorine after some number of days. I believe you do wait a bit before you swim. There are different schools of thought on that. Kim?

To sanitize your pool, you run it as a non-SWG pool, dosing as such with the non-SWG amount of CYA and liquid chlorine (or bleach with no additives). I would wait at least a month before adding salt. Actually, I waited six months, and ran my pool as non-SWG the whole time, using liquid chlorine from Lowes and Leslie's. I only waited that long because of the winter months, but 30 days is the common advice. And I didn't swim in it that whole time either (too cold!), so that's why I'm not up to speed on how soon you can get in. Curing plaster should not be subjected to salt water, nor anything that can mar the surface (which is probably why they say to wait to swim). With new plaster, you'll be testing and dosing every day for quite a while. New plaster ramps up pH pretty fast, so you'll be dosing every day or two with MA. So it's not really that inconvenient to do the chlorine, too. There's no real point to rushing to get that SWG on.

After a month or so you up the CYA to SWG levels, and add the salt. Wait a couple days for everything to mix in, confirm your levels with the appropriate test, and then fire up the SWG.

SWGs don't work in cold water, so unless your pool stays about 50ish all year, you're going to be dosing with liquid chlorine at some point anyway, this way you'll learn how to do it!

Kim will help you get started with the levels, for the first 30, and then after that, too... Or it's all in Pool School.
 
Here ya go! Start-up Cards - National Plasterers Council The only thing they left out was to wait 6 hours after the plaster is put on before adding water. This gives the plaster a chance to cure. I get this info from our plaster expert OnBalance.

Cliff notes:

-share the above info with PB to get his blessings

-NO salt for 30 days

-use liquid chlorine starting on day 3 as noted on the card above

-NO heater as the plaster dust can cause damage to it. Once you do not see any plaster dust when you brush your pool you are good to go on the heater. Most of the time it is around 30 days or so.

-Some pool builder say get in as soon as there is water on the skimmer face. I say do not get in until your pool is balanced as seen here: Pool School - Recommended Levels Note the card above also states to wait until the water is balanced.

I think I got it all. Let me know if I missed something!

Kim:kim: (good job Dirk!)
 
so, quick cliff notes
fill quickly, with rag on end of hose in deep end. I was thinking of zip tying a sock to the end of each hose
test water before fill record
once to middle of skimmer, (I assume this is full), start pump
brush twice a day, I assume I continue to filter, since no pool vacuum, I can leave a low RPM and run 24hrs
again with the tests and record
Day 3, test/brush/filter..can add chlorine..
no salt or wheel cleaner for 28 days.
on 7th day can use brush vacuum
after 28 days, add salt and use SWG
 
Inline...

so, quick cliff notes

fill quickly, with rag on end of hose in deep end. I was thinking of zip tying a sock to the end of each hose

Yep. Take a snapshot of your water meter before you turn on the first hose (if you're interested in using the meter trick). Shut down your landscape irrigation during the fill. Take a break from doing laundry. Even running the dishwasher if you can.

test water before fill record

Test the water out of one of the hose bibs. Record that in a "new pool" in Pool Math app. Keep for future reference.

once to middle of skimmer, (I assume this is full), start pump

Put a piece of tape to mark where "middle of skimmer" is while the skimmer is dry. It's deceptive when there's water in the skimmer to see where halfway is (because of water refraction).

Take your second picture of the water meter when the water hits the tape.

Then test your brand new pool for the first time!! Yay!!!

brush twice a day, I assume I continue to filter, since no pool vacuum, I can leave a low RPM and run 24hrs

Don't be stingy with the RPMs. Run your pump 24/7. The brushing removes plaster dust from your new surface and floats it into the water column. But it's the filtering that takes the dust out of the water, and keeps it from landing, and sticking, back down on the plaster somewhere else. VS pumps are crazy efficient. Don't let the cost of running a couple extra lightbulbs cost you a perfect new surface.

again with the tests and record

Every day.

Day 3, test/brush/filter..can add chlorine..

Day 4 the CYA goes in (according to the NPC card). Pleeeeeeeeaassssseeeeee be very careful with this stuff. Sock in the skimmer is now my preferred MO (after the infamous CYA Massacre of '17)!

no salt or wheel cleaner for 28 days.
on 7th day can use brush vacuum

Yep. And on the seventh day Justin resteths!

after 28 days, add salt and use SWG

You'll add more CYA at this point, too. Refer to this, Non-SWG chart for first 30 days, SWG chart after that.

Wait a day or two after adding salt before turning on the SWG. The salt has to be mixed in well before you apply electricity to the SWG plates.
 
Sidebar: the plasterers should plug up all the returns, vac ports, autofill ports, etc. Water tight, with dope or teflon tape. Insist on this. Don't let them take the plugs off. You do so when the fill is done, and BEFORE you turn on the pump. You don't want any water dripping out of a port down the side of new plaster. Staaaaain City!
 
Sidebar: the plasterers should plug up all the returns, vac ports, autofill ports, etc. Water tight, with dope or teflon tape. Insist on this. Don't let them take the plugs off. You do so when the fill is done, and BEFORE you turn on the pump. You don't want any water dripping out of a port down the side of new plaster. Staaaaain City!

just trying to understand this, the outlets and suction points need to be capped? How does water return from here if pump isn’t running?

VERY IMPORTANT, what if my test kit isn’t here by friday?
 
just trying to understand this, the outlets and suction points need to be capped? How does water return from here if pump isn’t running?

Not quite sure what you're asking. I can describe my experience, the answer will be in here somewhere.

When I bought my house/pool, there was what I thought was a nasty crack running from my suction port down to the deep end. No one seemed to know what caused the crack or if it was leaking or patched or what. Fast forward to when I first had my pool drained, and it was only then that the pool guy determined what it actually was. Not a crack at all. During the initial fill, that port was leaking water somehow. That stream of water followed exactly the path of least resistance from the port down to the lowest end of the pool. The resulting stain on the new plaster became permanent, then later attracted a mass of calcium scale. Which looked a lot like a crack from above the water.

In my "new" resurfaced pool, all the ports (suction, return, autofill) all end in 1.5" female-threaded PVC fittings. My plasterers plugged all those ports with 1.5" male fittings, presumably to keep plaster from blowing into the pipes, and to keep errant water from running down the face of brand new plaster as it was curing in the air. They used pipe dope and/or teflon tape to really seal the plugs to the fittings, which indicated to me that they understood this was not just about plaster blowing into the pipes, but also to make each opening water tight. At my insistence (not sure if they would have otherwise), the plugs were left in place during my fill, and I took them off myself after the fill was complete, before I started the pump running.

So the ports stay plugged while they're exposed to air. The plugs can come off as soon as they are underwater. They MUST come off before you run the pump.

- - - Updated - - -

OK, sorry, I just reread your question for the tenth time and finally got it. You'd think there'd be no water in brand new never before used pool plumbing. And that none would come out if the pump wasn't running. What I'm sayin' is, some how water got into my pipes before that first plaster job, and somehow it drained out across the new plaster. (There is, after all, a lot of water flying around during gunite time. I don't know.) You're guys are going to plug those ports somehow, I'm recommending you manage that, to be sure they seal the ports water tight, and leave the plugs in until your fill is done. They might do that anyway, just make sure they do. You might never have this issue (of leaking ports), but it's one of those "Oh, man, why didn't you say something!?!" dealios...


VERY IMPORTANT, what if my test kit isn’t here by friday?

You mean the test kit you were supposed to order a month ago, and been practicing with the whole time? (OK, that was mean.) Not sure what to tell you on that. Ideally you should have a kit on day one or before, and be very familiar with how to use it. Short of that, you'll do the best you can when you can.

I didn't get my kit until day four or five, I forget. I only found TFP on day two. I limped along with an old OTO kit the previous owners left me, and the test results from Leslie's (I'm loathe to admit). I'm not suggesting you do the same, merely describing how I did it. I had a time of it, even after my "real" kit arrived, because I was learning TFPC and how to test at the same time, which is why I always suggest in build threads that new owners get their kit early and learn how to use it well in advance of Day One. Here's an example of my evangelizing:

new pool in tucson az - Page 5

(OK, that was mean, too!)
 

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I understand now about the pipes. Right now all pipes are sticking out 10-12 inches, and stupidity I didn’t think they would cut them and put a threaded sleeve on them. Must be the graveyard fog, from just waking up.

As as for the kit, I understand, however I will not be paying $82 for one in the mail AND whatever kit from lislie’s

Thank you you for the clarification
 
I understand now about the pipes. Right now all pipes are sticking out 10-12 inches, and stupidity I didn’t think they would cut them and put a threaded sleeve on them. Must be the graveyard fog, from just waking up.

As as for the kit, I understand, however I will not be paying $82 for one in the mail AND whatever kit from lislie’s

Thank you you for the clarification

I didn't see my pool being built, just the remodel. They cut the pipes and put the fittings on first, then plastered. That's what seals the fittings and makes them water tight, I assume.

You have a bit of a grace period for CYA and chlorine. Two or three days or so. CH will probably be OK, as you are in hard-water-land. And TA is something to deal with after a while. So it's really only pH to worry about for those first few days. You can buy a cheap pool test kit just about anywhere. $10? $15? And use the pH side of that kit to monitor pH for the days you're kit is missing. You'll be measuring pH a lot at first, so the pH reagent in that cheapie kit won't be wasted... You'll burn through that and then some. Even the FC side of those cheapie kits can be used for a quick test now and then...
 
Omg I am about to go through the same thing. Pb says can swim pretty much straight away and heat pump can go on within a few days. Heat pump says a few days is fine too but everything I see says at least a few months for plaster to settle. Also read not to swim for 2-4 weeks. I also get the impression that the SWG will go on in a few days too, rather than the month I’ve read about here and elsewhere. My head is spinning and I’m confused but I don’t want to go against my pb. Sorry, I’m no help!

with those START UP CARDS, I am going to hold out on the salt and SWG for the 28 days.
I dont have brush vacuum yet, I was going to get a robot, but seems I need to wait 28 days for that as well.
and of course wait for my test kit...paying $22 for shipping, I would have thought that would have been overnight
 
with those START UP CARDS, I am going to hold out on the salt and SWG for the 28 days.
I dont have brush vacuum yet, I was going to get a robot, but seems I need to wait 28 days for that as well.
and of course wait for my test kit...paying $22 for shipping, I would have thought that would have been overnight

I’ve read the cards and they’re good. If I could stick to them I would but it’s not me doing the start up. I’m in Australia so obviously the cards don’t apply to the company that is doing my pebble. Since they and the pb hold my warranty I will let them start it up as they see fit. Once it’s handed over to me I will be going with TFP methods. Have my test kit ready to go. And will be brushing 4 times a day as requested by pb. As far as chemicals etc will have to let that be his gig until it’s officially mine.
 
I’ve read the cards and they’re good. If I could stick to them I would but it’s not me doing the start up. I’m in Australia so obviously the cards don’t apply to the company that is doing my pebble. Since they and the pb hold my warranty I will let them start it up as they see fit. Once it’s handed over to me I will be going with TFP methods. Have my test kit ready to go. And will be brushing 4 times a day as requested by pb. As far as chemicals etc will have to let that be his gig until it’s officially mine.

like you said the PB has the warranty, following their instructions works. when do you get the plaster?
 
You have to maintain your warranties, for sure. But you shouldn't blindly trust your PB to do a proper startup. This forum is filled with reports of bungled startups at the hands of PBs and their staff. Kim and I are working through one now, where the PB's "pool guy" clearly made some mistakes. Not just in terms of TFP standards, but by general pool industry standards. Like not brushing. Zero chlorine. Etc.

If it were my pool, I'd be testing right along with the PB's guy, and reporting it back here. I'd take any concerns of TFP experts back to the PB, and give him a what' up, and try to work out with him how to balance the water as you see fit (assuming that would be as TFP sees fit), while still maintaining your warranty.

As unpalatable as that might sound, please consider three facts:

1. The first 30 days of your plaster's life are the most critical to how it will look, feel and last. You won't get a do-over. You won't be able to fix on day 31 what was done incorrectly before that.

2. A bungled startup can result in immediate, obvious problems. But unfortunately, the most likely damage to be caused by a poorly managed startup won't manifest itself for years, long after the warranty expires. I'm talking about your plaster falling apart in ten years, or less, when it could have lasted for 15 or 20.

3. This is YOUR pool, and you'll have to live with how it looks and feels for years, decades maybe, and suffer the consequences should the finish fail prematurely. Your PB will be gone in a puff of truck exhaust the day he thinks he's finished, and never look back.

Take control of your pool water on Day One, just as you have been managing your build. You can let the PB do his thing to maintain the warranty, but confirm, every day, what he's doing is appropriate. Ask to be in the loop on what he's adding to the pool, and jump in there and correct anything that you know to be wrong (based on advice and knowledge you get here at TFP).

Like Ronnie used to say "Trust, but verify!"

It's not just me preaching, it's what I did. In my case, the startup by the PB's recommended maintenance company was not mandatory. I caught him doing questionable things on Day One. Fired him on Day Two. Found TFP and have maintained my water ever since. I know for a fact that my pool water's chemistry, every component of it, and its CSI have been dead-on perfect for the entire time. And that's a good feeling.

:blah:
 
mine is today! not sure how long this takes, I am also nervous, this is the like the paint job, it has to look good. hopefully I have some great pictures to show

Ok wow! Fingers crossed all goes well for you! I think it takes around 3 hours ish total depending on size of pool. They said they do about 3 a day so maybe a little less time if you take travel etc into account. I’ve just drained water from my pool that accumulated yesterday in the rain. Hoping its dry enough for them tomorrow. Looking forward to your pictures!
 

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