New Pool - in the quoting process - need a sanity check

[ParagPA]

Hello,

We're doing a new backyard living space, with a pool. I've attached a very high level concept drawing. We're talking to a lot of contractors right now, and an engineering firm - since we have a large easement for a detention pond in our backyard. So we have to modify that pond to maintain capacity if we use any of the easement.

Most of the numbers I'm seeing from different contractors are pretty consistent, at least for estimates - we haven't gotten far enough into the design process for binding quotes yet.

One thing we want to do is a smallish pool house (~ 18x10) with a bathroom, shower, and changing area. The high level quote I'm getting for this is $75-125K. On the low end, that's over $400/SF, which seems surprisingly high.

When I asked him about this, this was his reply:

" In regards to the building, the square foot price would be much higher due to working in a small space. Large houses allow for several crews to work in several areas at once for much higher efficiency rate. If you would compare the square foot cost on your typical bathroom remodel for instance, you would find the same type of expense. Working in a small space such as this pool house and conducting all the same services you would for a home build: foundation, framing, dry wall, finishing, roofing, lighting, bathroom installation, and most importantly the utilities makes for a much slower and more labor intensive build driving up labor costs. The utilities as mentioned before are a typically a large expense as well. The expense for the bathroom alone could range up to $50,000. You have storm water for the gutters, sanitary for the shower and sink, water, electric, and sometimes gas that all need to be attached to the main lines to your house that sometimes can be buried 8' deep, grinder pumps sometimes needed for the sanitary lines, and if your electric panel is over loaded an additional electric service may be required from the power company as well. "

Is this rational? I was really expecting something around $150/SF, assuming there wasn't some huge problem in getting access to sewer, water, etc.

Thanks - I'd appreciate any input.

Parag

 

[blakeusa]

You get $150 a sf by economies of scale. Not surprised by the price. As for the pool in New England it is easy to spend $125-150k for a quality pool build and landscaping.

Also 45x26 is an xlarge pool too.

 

[poolnovice88]

Can't speak for up north but down south it would cost you the $150 per foot or less. If I were you getting those quotes I would probably choose to sub out the pool house myself or look into purchasing a tiny house and pouring a small slab ($6 per sf max in concrete) to place it on.

 

[Hoots711]

holy heck... couldnt you buy a 10-30K 'tiny house' prebuilt and have it dropped off on a pad?

I think you need to get real quotes on getting utilities to a pad and manage the building costs seperately. If you need 50K+ just for the utilities the building is an afterthought.

 

[kimkats]

Oh a Lazy River Ride!!!! FUN!!

As for the cost of the pool house............I really don't know how it works. What he says makes a kind of sense but not sure if it is true.

Kim

 

[ParagPA]

Yep, I'm fully expecting to pay over $100K for the pool. I'm really having trouble with $400/SF for a 180SF structure.

The other idea about getting a separate quote to bring utilities to the pad is a great idea.

Thanks,
Parag

You get $150 a sf by economies of scale. Not surprised by the price. As for the pool in New England it is easy to spend $125-150k for a quality pool build and landscaping.

Also 45x26 is an xlarge pool too.

 

[PoolGate]

You are getting totally ripped off on that out building. Buy a pre-made and have it dropped on a concrete pad. You are talking $10k-$20k for a building the size you want. $50k for a bathroom is a super duper ripoff that is like a custom luxury master bath with all high end fixtures. I would tell this builder to take a hike on all counts. He smells money and nothing more.

 

[jimim]

Hello,

We're doing a new backyard living space, with a pool. I've attached a very high level concept drawing. We're talking to a lot of contractors right now, and an engineering firm - since we have a large easement for a detention pond in our backyard. So we have to modify that pond to maintain capacity if we use any of the easement.

Most of the numbers I'm seeing from different contractors are pretty consistent, at least for estimates - we haven't gotten far enough into the design process for binding quotes yet.

One thing we want to do is a smallish pool house (~ 18x10) with a bathroom, shower, and changing area. The high level quote I'm getting for this is $75-125K. On the low end, that's over $400/SF, which seems surprisingly high.

When I asked him about this, this was his reply:

" In regards to the building, the square foot price would be much higher due to working in a small space. Large houses allow for several crews to work in several areas at once for much higher efficiency rate. If you would compare the square foot cost on your typical bathroom remodel for instance, you would find the same type of expense. Working in a small space such as this pool house and conducting all the same services you would for a home build: foundation, framing, dry wall, finishing, roofing, lighting, bathroom installation, and most importantly the utilities makes for a much slower and more labor intensive build driving up labor costs. The utilities as mentioned before are a typically a large expense as well. The expense for the bathroom alone could range up to $50,000. You have storm water for the gutters, sanitary for the shower and sink, water, electric, and sometimes gas that all need to be attached to the main lines to your house that sometimes can be buried 8' deep, grinder pumps sometimes needed for the sanitary lines, and if your electric panel is over loaded an additional electric service may be required from the power company as well. "

Is this rational? I was really expecting something around $150/SF, assuming there wasn't some huge problem in getting access to sewer, water, etc.

Thanks - I'd appreciate any input.

Parag

View attachment 81716

ok my dads crew from he was kid are all contractors. I had every single trade in the business build my whole home. I have seen them build countless homes. That statement about the efficiency is complete bull. So he can frame and build a foundation at once? He can roof it while it’s getting framed? Ya plumbers and electricians can work together in a larger home once framed but let’s see in my pool house in 1 day I had brick being done. My plumber was doing a line or 2. I was wiring low volt along with my buddy doing electrical.

Oh and utility hook up to ur house. How hard is it to dig ditches from the pool house out to the current house where they exit and tie in? I have seen it countless times done in 2-3 day max. Drilling through foundation to get hookups set in place might be the most time consuming. Example a poured concrete foundation. U might hit a lot of rebar. My pour is 12 inches and we loaded it with rebar. Took my and my buddy a day to drill 4 holes cause of it but next day he had everything trenches and tied in and covered.

Its not rocket science. Contractors can make it seem like rocket science to a home owner that doesn’t know anything. Not saying you. But I have seen it over the years. Last job we did for audio around a pool and pool house. First contractor was telling home owner. Oh hours to do this hours to do thst. This is going to be so hard to access. I spent 10 mins at the house. Laid it out for the guys. Had the guys come into rough wire. They ended up staying and finishing complete install in 1 day. Zero issues. Zero callbacks. 6 texts the customer is happy and has 4 grandcextra in thier pocket and has better equipment.

Jim

 

[jimim]

You know I do see his thought with my buddy’s cabinet business. He does a ton of work in nyc and the Jershey shores. Even with him traveling and taking a crew out he still crushes estimates by 20-40 grand every time. He does more work out of our area than in my area. And his work is beyond good. I have met people over the years that didn’t know I knew him and I get the same comments. Dave is unbelievable but ya u wait. Lol. He knows that but it doesn’t bother people just know his work but yes he runs into a ton of crazy over priced jobs.

 

[ParagPA]

Thanks very much. I needed a sanity check - and this is it. I've had enough additions put onto previous houses by various contractors that this just seemed way out of line. We talked a bit more, and what came out is that he works primarily with subcontractors. His "company" does very good work - he has a good reputation and his gallery is gorgeous. But if he's primarily acting as the GC and subbing and everything out - that's 2x the margin I'm paying for. And that's how you get to $400/SF (which still seems high - even with 2nd tier subs).

I've talked to a few contractors since then, and most of them hover around $30K, which seems more reasonable.

Thanks,
Parag

ok my dads crew from he was kid are all contractors. I had every single trade in the business build my whole home. I have seen them build countless homes. That statement about the efficiency is complete bull. So he can frame and build a foundation at once? He can roof it while it’s getting framed? Ya plumbers and electricians can work together in a larger home once framed but let’s see in my pool house in 1 day I had brick being done. My plumber was doing a line or 2. I was wiring low volt along with my buddy doing electrical.

Oh and utility hook up to ur house. How hard is it to dig ditches from the pool house out to the current house where they exit and tie in? I have seen it countless times done in 2-3 day max. Drilling through foundation to get hookups set in place might be the most time consuming. Example a poured concrete foundation. U might hit a lot of rebar. My pour is 12 inches and we loaded it with rebar. Took my and my buddy a day to drill 4 holes cause of it but next day he had everything trenches and tied in and covered.

Its not rocket science. Contractors can make it seem like rocket science to a home owner that doesn’t know anything. Not saying you. But I have seen it over the years. Last job we did for audio around a pool and pool house. First contractor was telling home owner. Oh hours to do this hours to do thst. This is going to be so hard to access. I spent 10 mins at the house. Laid it out for the guys. Had the guys come into rough wire. They ended up staying and finishing complete install in 1 day. Zero issues. Zero callbacks. 6 texts the customer is happy and has 4 grandcextra in thier pocket and has better equipment.

Jim

 

[PoolGate]

Thanks very much. I needed a sanity check - and this is it. I've had enough additions put onto previous houses by various contractors that this just seemed way out of line. We talked a bit more, and what came out is that he works primarily with subcontractors. His "company" does very good work - he has a good reputation and his gallery is gorgeous. But if he's primarily acting as the GC and subbing and everything out - that's 2x the margin I'm paying for. And that's how you get to $400/SF (which still seems high - even with 2nd tier subs).

I've talked to a few contractors since then, and most of them hover around $30K, which seems more reasonable.

Thanks,
Parag

$30k is still a ripoff. Take a look at this one that is $12k (it is on the high side at that). Add to that running lines for sewer and adding a bathroom to it and you are still probably well under $20k. This place will customize the house as well so they would probably do one with a bathroom.

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