New Pool in Houston, TX - Completed August 2021

[Turbo1Ton]

I would ask what proof, other than the stone deteriorated, do they have that it was the fault of the SWCG? Did they also have another pool with the same materials of construction and maintain the exact same water chemistry in both, to compare against? It has been discussed on here many times, that the SWCG does not cause damage to the materials. The materials are inferior for use around the pool and that is why they were damaged. If you really don't want the SWCG, that's cool, but you shouldn't base that decision on whether it will damage anything. Because within a couple of years, your regular chlorine pool will likely have as much salt as most salt water pools. The liquid chlorine itself, is made of salts. Those get left behind every time you add chlorine.

I'm with @Jimrahbe on this, I would fill in my pool before I would be without a SWCG.

I would defer to one of the other Houstonians on here about how much, but during the summer, you will be adding a lot of chlorine daily, to keep up with the demand.

It appears a few of the usual suspects may have not seen your thread. @Dirk, @Jimrahbe - I know you have a lot better handle on this than I. Anything to add?

Thanks,

--Jeff

 

[Dirk]

My pool is practically the "controlled experiment" that Jeff is referring to.

My coping is flagstone, and it has a half dozen spokes of flagstone radiating out away from the coping. So there is flagstone right on the water, and then as far as 5' away, and everywhere in between. Plus I have other areas of the same flagstone that are even farther from the pool.

When I took over the pool from the previous owner it was about four years old. The coping was sandy, and flaking apart in some areas. There was no SWG. The water was at about 2500ppm salt. I also inherited a pool guy who was at a complete loss about the damage to the coping and why there was salt in the water. His company had tried to use stone sealer on the coping to solve the sandiness, but it didn't work. He didn't know about the salt because he was really bad at his job!

I stopped the sandiness and most of the flaking with a special chemical treatment. So the problem is preventable. The problems with the stone exist only on the coping, not on the stones even just a foot away. No symptoms on any of the flagstone elsewhere in my yard. I treated only the coping, not the other areas of flagstone. They didn't need it, and still don't, six years later.

It's very obvious in my "laboratory" that the damage is pool-related. But also obvious it is not SWG-related. It seems clear to me that the damage is caused by repeated exposure to water. The damage is very much worse near the steps then anywhere else. By a lot. Further evidence that this is water related, as that area is subjected to water more than any other. Much of the coping exhibits no damage at all.

If the damage had anything to do with salt (which I doubt), it was going to happen with or without the SWG. The only way to keep your pool salt free is to not use it and to learn to enjoy the green color. Chlorine, muriatic acid and humans all leave salt behind. Salt accumulation is inevitable. Unless you can afford to exchange water every month or two.

The real problem is the stone. Many pools with stone coping never have this problem. It has more to do with the type of stone you use, and even more to do with where the stone comes from (how it was formed geologically).

If you want to eliminate these types of problems, you eliminate the stone, not the SWG.

UV or ozone systems will have no impact on these issues, one way or the other. They serve virtually no purpose in an outdoor residential pool. Period.

 

[travelfeedsthesoul]

Alright, so if I get rid of the UV, I'll save about $1100. How much do you guys think SWCG systems cost after pool installation? I'm thinking I'll go without it for now and if necessary, I will convert.

 

[Dirk]

Sorry, I don't know Jandy. Pentair offers bundles that include SWGs. Not only is the installation much cleaner, because the SWG's clonky transformer is hidden inside the automation controller's box, they're cheaper when purchased together. If Jandy offers a similar package, that might be worth considering.

You can also get rid of the inline chlorinator and see how close that plus the UV credit get you to an SWG system.

Using tabs to maintain sanitization is not sustainable. You'll max out on what tabs put into the water in short order (less than one season) and have to stop using them (and the inline chlorinator). After that, maintaining a liquid chlorine pool in the Texas swim season will get old very fast. I predict you will end up with an SWG, and I predict you'll end up wishing you had gotten it installed on day 1.

@Texas Splash, thoughts?

 

[HermanTX]

Alright, so if I get rid of the UV, I'll save about $1100. How much do you guys think SWCG systems cost after pool installation? I'm thinking I'll go without it for now and if necessary, I will convert.

For 5 months last summer - May through Sept I used 24 gallons of Liquid Chlorine. About half was 10% and other half 12.5%
So that provides you some guidance on volume of LC needed during the summer in Houston area. At the beginning my CYA was running a little high (80-90 ppm) so probably used a little more LC then I would have for my current CYA of 40ppm.
FWIW I only used 3 gallons of Muriatic Acid during that same time period.
My data is based on what I recorded in my Pool Math app.

 

[Krysib]

We opened our pool in August of last summer-so this is probably an effect of opening a 20,000 gallon pool in 100 degree weather. However, for much of the first month open pool opening-we were pouring a gallon of 10% liquid bleach in DAILY. That amount raises our pool volume by 5ppm chlorine. With us not figuring out our UV/ozone system was consuming chlorine until later-this was the daily chlorine required to keep our sanitation in check.

Just some perspective before you decide against a SWG.

I believe a more typical daily chlorine loss in the height of summer is 3-4ppm, but with our size pool that’s still 3/4 of a gallon a day. So seven gallons a week at the cost of roughly $3.75 per gallon. Plus all the jug lugging....

We just added our SWG last week and already breathing a sigh of relief not to have to do that again.

 

[Dtkokay]

Our pool is 25K gallons. With liquid chlorine, we were using 1 gallon a day in summer. The SWCG has made life soooooo much easier, especially if we leave town for a weekend or vacation. We left for two weeks last summer and the pool was fine when we got back. We did have a family member stop by a few times to check the chlorine level and add some muriatic acid. Chlorine level was fine the entire time.

Pool builders in Texas just don’t understand salt systems, and unfortunately neither do prospective pool owners. It’s a no brainer IMO.

 

[colleenbevans]

Following this thread- also building in Houston and considering SWCG. We plan a stone waterfall and I will ask our PB about compatibility with salt- I'll report back what HE tells me, but it would be great to hear from some pool owners that have SWCG and natural stone.

 

[Newdude]

I had more gallons @35k but less UV in NY. I opened too early for the SWG last year and was adding 1 gallon a day until it fired up. It was a stark comparison to all the 2 week ‘stay-cations’ I had with the SWG where I didn’t touch a thing. I was there looking at it multiple times a day, and would have seen it loose some sparkle of anything was going on. Every last time I would end up testing because I felt guilty, not because anything was going on. And darn near every one of those tests was still 100% fine.

 

[Bvacchiano]

Following this thread- also building in Houston and considering SWCG. We plan a stone waterfall and I will ask our PB about compatibility with salt- I'll report back what HE tells me, but it would be great to hear from some pool owners that have SWCG and natural stone.

I’ve had my pool since Feb 2018. Ive had an SWG since day one. I also have travertine coping and travertine full decking around the pool. I’ve yet to see ONE SPECK of damage to my travertine ANYWHERE near the pool (or anywhere period). You can also seal the travertine as well if you want for peace of mind. I personally don’t know of anybody with Flagstone in Houston so I can’t comment on that. This is all a bunch of malarkey built up by the PB’s as they believe it will lead to warranty claims and fixes. They don’t understand SWG that’s the problem.
I’d rather stab myself in the eye with this fork than not have an SWG in Houston!

 

[Newdude]

. I personally don’t know of anybody with Flagstone in Houston so I can’t comment on that.

I had a full flagstone patio and 8 years in it was weathering, not necessarily near the pool but all over and in plenty of spots that were 9+ ft away and free from splashing. The rain and snow sitting on them was the cause. The weathering gave them an almost fingerprint pattern (zoomed in with peaks and valleys). There was maybe 1/4 inch variation across the patio and the stones had close to 3 inches left so they weren’t going anywhere anytime in the next few decades. Instead of looking poorly, it added all kinds of character IMHO and I liked them more each year.

Also, at the time I had no clue that there were different qualities for each stone. We just went with cost so I’m assuming we had the lesser quality stones. They did not flake or chip at all and weathered smoothly. Now, maybe not the best for a waterfall/spillover under constant flow, but the rain and splash out would have taken a lifetime to ruin the patio. It would have needed to be replaced long before it was too weathered.

 

[Dirk]

It's their "flakey" texture that I both love and hate about my flagstones. Love the organic, natural look and feel, but hate the way they kinda come apart. I actually don't see much changing on all the stone I have around the yard and patio, just the stuff within a foot of the pool water (and even then only a few of the stones are showing significant wear). ❤

I think I mentioned, most of the issues are chemically treatable. So even if you don't get the "good stuff," you can mitigate most of the ongoing wear if you need to (but it's not cheap).

 

[jaspool]

Most of your questions have been addressed so far. Cost for the gas meter upgrade is 350 $ as per center point. Just call them when you are ready for the hook up, usually after pool is full of water. Regarding SWG, we asked our pool builder to swap the original fusion 2 (some minerals) that his company are pushing and switched to a SWG for the same price. They were reluctant but did it and it is now integrated with our pool automated system. And don’t be afraid of questioning your builder’s work and ask clarification if needed, mine was very amicable and willing to work with me.

This forum is the best resources of information, so keep asking questions or do some research on previously answered questions.

 

[travelfeedsthesoul]

Hi all - Got the pool layout painted in the yard today. I'm looking at our spa design (with rolled edge) and the negative spillway is 4 ft wide. However, we made the pool slightly wider (pushed the raised wall back by 1 ft and now the spillway isn't really centered from coping to coping (see image attached).

I'm thinking of possibly making the spillway wider by 1ft so it's more centered, especially when looking at it from the inside the pool. See image attached with bright blue painted in to show the new Spillway width added on. This would make the spillway 5 ft wide.

My concerns are as follows:

1) Will this require any equipment changes to accomodate the larger water flow rate, or will this impact how the water spills out?

2) Will the spa jets need to be re-spaced?

Anything else I'm not thinking of? I'm attaching an image of the full layout and then images of the zoomed in area with the original spillway and then the widened spillway.

Thanks,

Traveler

 

[Smalone]

Our last house had a pool that was installed in the late 70's and only had 1 skimmer. One thing I didn't see anyone else mention is blockage. In fall time we would get leaves blown into our pool from neighbors trees and I can't tell you how many times we had almost complete blockage on our floor drain and skimmer because we didn't have the second skimmer. I just figured that's how they used to build pools because I never saw another inground pool with only 1and it surprises me a pool builder wouldn't consider that. What a PITA that was! I would literally net the pool twice a day and still had clogs. I don't think anything is worse for your pump than running without water!

 

[travelfeedsthesoul]

Bumping this for spillway concerns. Appreciate any advice from some of the usual suspect Pros I see here. Lol

 

[HermanTX]

Bumping this for spillway concerns. Appreciate any advice from some of the usual suspect Pros I see here. Lol

Possibly, if @ajw22 is available to review your request on pump capability.
Also, it would be helpful if you can explain how your 2 VS Pumps are currently planned to be used. How has the PB set up the plumbing with your pool circulation, the gushers, the spillover, the multiple waterfalls, etc.

I would seriously consider a second skimmer. I see 3 potential places dependent on wind direction or circulation needs - 1) to left of sheer waterfall, 2) where future cleaner plumbing is located 3} on main light wall but symmetrical to how existing skimmer is placed

 

[travelfeedsthesoul]

Thanks Herman. When I inquired with my PB about a 2nd skimmer, he said since we have the A&A in-floor cleaning system and the Venturi skimmer, a 2nd skimmer wouldn't be necessary, and may even harm the pool...don't know why?

I know all the water features are supposed to work automatically, but I'm checking with my PB to see exactly how they're set up. Will post response here once I hear back.

Thanks!!

 

[ajw22]

Biggest issue with a wide spillway is the tile being absolutely level do that the water sheets evenly off. Pump and water flow will not be a problem.

I also think you should get two skimmers. Over the life of the pool it is likely you will have a skimmer problem. With two skimmers your pool is not shutdown. Your PB is full of BS about the Venturi skimmer and the fact that you have an IFCS has nothing to do with your skimmers.

 

[travelfeedsthesoul]

So I just removed the Bioshield UV system. Is this okay? I don't have a SWG but I want to still be able to follow the TFP method of pool maintenance and care. I hope removing the UV system didn't just result in the pool requiring a lot more Chlorine.

Okay so here is what he said about the 2nd skimmer:

"Not trying to come across bad, but I am assuming those people don’t build pools for a living? If it would help the pool, I promise we’d add it. if you want to add one, we can, and I can add it to the addendum.
See below, the only place the skimmers can go is in the red area. If there was no wall or rock on back, we could do it, but since we cant, it wouldn’t make sense"

I checked with 2 of my buddies (neither has a IFCS) who built with my PB and they also have 1 skimmer (6+ years) and said they do not see the need for a 2nd. Do you guys agree now looking at it from the PB's perspective? Or is something still off?

We're already past our budget by a good amount and I don't want to pay an additional $1K if not necessary. Heck, I got rid of that $1K UV system since a) many folks here advised to exclude it but also b) because moving the pool equipment away from being highly visible while swimming (with all the plumbing) and adding a separate electric sub panel to accommodate larger breakers was adding a cost of $940. This netted to a $60 credit.